Gelgoog's "Beam" Naginata

[Strike105]

I just recently saw Amuro and Char's battle in episode 38 of MSG. After Amuro sliced into Char's beam rifle, he drew his naginata. What struck me odd it that the naginata appeared to have metal blades instead of beam blades, and even made metallic sounds when it struck the ground (I have no idea if this is true for the Japanese version, as I hear that some sound effects were replaced in the American version). It appears in a later episode with beam blades. What I'm wondering is if it's an animation error, and if it's not, is there any more info on it?

[Geoxile]

It doesn't sound metal in particular but it's the same in the Japanese original. Probably an error, otherwise the Gundam should've just took it and sliced the Gelgoog apart >.>

[duke4799]

Actually, I know what you're talking about and have been confused on this issue as well...

Someone should take a look at that footage. The first episode Char takes his Gelgoog into battle, it most certainly has metal blades.

[Genocide]

I'd chalk it up to animation error myself. Or, if you want to stretch your imagination a bit, perhaps Char just decided to use a metallic variation of the weapon for that particular sortie.

[Doctord]

Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAwqHG4eOwI

[crashlegacy14]

when I watched it I assumed char was simply using a metal version since he seemed to have one of the first gelgoogs and the beam version hadn't been completed yet or something of the sort.

[Black Knight]

If Ramba's Gouf can have a clearly-animated beam sabre get retconned into a heat sabre, I see no reason for Char's Gelgoog not to have a clearly-animated solid melee weapon get changed later into a beam version. At least they fixed it in the movie trilogy, unlike the Gouf's weapon.

[T.V.]

Quite true as even Sunrise and Bandai don't stick zealously to every animated frame as far as "offical" material goes.

Still, they could always explain the solid naginata as a custom weapon exclusive to the (as in Char's) prototype Gelgoog, trading it in for the production standard beam naginata later on.

Edit: What crashlegacy14 said..

[Imperial]

It's hardly the first time the animation has contradicted subsequent sources.

It's probably just an animation error. Ramba Ral's amazing trick heat saber is likely the best example, while Char's naginata may be pulling up on the number two spot.

Then again, it could be a simple retcon. I know the Gelgoog Marine's forearm-mounted machine cannons were rechristened "spot beam guns" somewhat recently, seemingly for no other reason than to make it seem more exotic.

It might not even be anything that complex. Perhaps, as mentioned, Char's Gelgoog took a solid blade in battle while the engineers ironed the last few kinks out of the beam model.

So, in the end, it's a multiple choice answer until someone with more information can illuminate us. Whatever the case, it's another less on in the marvelous world of Gundam and its countless contradictions.

[toysdream]

Char's Gelgoog certainly seems to have a metal naginata when it duels the Gundam at Texas Colony, in episode 38 of the TV series. I think the next time it uses a melee weapon is in episode 41, where it has a double-ended beam naginata with glowing blue blades.

In the Gundam III movie, of course, Char's Gelgoog is carrying a beam weapon on both occasions. The beam itself glows yellow, probably so that they could swap in Char's Gelgoog for M'Quve's Gyan (which has a yellow beam saber) in some of the Texas Colony footage. The weird thing, though, is that in order to reproduce the Gyan's moves they gave Char's Gelgoog a single-ended beam saber in the movie version of the Texas Colony duel. Char doesn't get a double-bladed beam naginata until his next duel with the Gundam, just as in the TV series.

This isn't the only time we see a Gelgoog with a single-ended beam saber, either. In the opening scene of Gundam 0083, Gato's Gelgoog is also running around with a single-ended saber, not a double-bladed naginata. Perhaps, like the metal naginata from the TV series, this could be considered one of the Gelgoog's unofficial weapon variants.

-- Mark

[Geoxile]

I think what's more interesting is that in episode 41 Char uses the metal center of the double beam naginata to block the Gundam's slash, which looked like it had some weight behind it too.

[toysdream]

I think what's more interesting is that in episode 41 Char uses the metal center of the double beam naginata to block the Gundam's slash, which looked like it had some weight behind it too.

An old friend of mine always wondered why they didn't build the whole mobile suit out of whatever they used for the naginata handle.

Perhaps this is more of the "beam-resistant coating" that was supposedly used on the Gelgoog's shield...

-- Mark

[J-Lead]

This isn't the only time we see a Gelgoog with a single-ended beam saber, either. In the opening scene of Gundam 0083, Gato's Gelgoog is also running around with a single-ended saber, not a double-bladed naginata. Perhaps, like the metal naginata from the TV series, this could be considered one of the Gelgoog's unofficial weapon variants.

-- Mark

Not quite, he simply only activated one end of then naginata. A quick view of the scene in question actually shows an animation error, where he approaches the GM with one end ignited, then slashes it with both ends ignited, then as he retreats, is shown to have only one end ignited. Either that, or he alternates between the two settings rather often. I guess Gelgoog pilots have the option of only using one side if they so wish, and that would make sense since activating both sides all the time when you don't necessarily need both ends in every situation would just eat up more reactor power.

[Duraham]

Not quite, he simply only activated one end of then naginata. A quick view of the scene in question actually shows an animation error, where he approaches the GM with one end ignited, then slashes it with both ends ignited, then as he retreats, is shown to have only one end ignited. Either that, or he alternates between the two settings rather often. I guess Gelgoog pilots have the option of only using one side if they so wish, and that would make sense since activating both sides all the time when you don't necessarily need both ends in every situation would just eat up more reactor power.

Alternatively, it could be that the other end was automatically switched off to avoid coming into contact with the Gelgoog, and this technology ultimately evolved into the beam shield

[Dark Duel]

If you use the Gelgoog or Dijeh in Gundam v. Zeta Gundam, IIRC it alternates between using the saber as single-bladed or double-bladed. (Yeah, I know - games. Still thought I'd mention it anyway)

[Duraham]

If you use the Gelgoog or Dijeh in Gundam v. Zeta Gundam, IIRC it alternates between using the saber as single-bladed or double-bladed. (Yeah, I know - games. Still thought I'd mention it anyway)

also in that game, beams can be used underwater, and you can stick a beam saber through another MS by standing near it, and nothing happens.

[toysdream]

Not quite, he simply only activated one end of then naginata. A quick view of the scene in question actually shows an animation error, where he approaches the GM with one end ignited, then slashes it with both ends ignited, then as he retreats, is shown to have only one end ignited.

Nope, there's no animation error; Gato's weapon is consistently a single-ended beam saber throughout the entire scene. Check these screenshots:

gatogelgoog01.jpg
gatogelgoog02.jpg
gatogelgoog03.jpg
gatogelgoog04.jpg

The third image shows Gato slashing the GM, and it's still a single-ended beam saber. What's more, the screenshots show that his saber doesn't even have an emitter on the butt end, so there's nowhere for the beam to come out of. And moreover, the blade itself is a straight saber - just like those of the Gyan, or the saber Char uses in the movie version of the Texas colony duel - rather than a flat, curved halberd blade.

I guess Gelgoog pilots have the option of only using one side if they so wish, and that would make sense since activating both sides all the time when you don't necessarily need both ends in every situation would just eat up more reactor power.

The kit manuals say that the pilot can activate one or both ends of the naginata at their whim, which seems reasonable enough. But it seems like the folks who compile the official materials have never noticed that Char and Gato spend a lot of time carrying conventional beam sabers instead.

-- Mark

[J-Lead]

Not quite, he simply only activated one end of then naginata. A quick view of the scene in question actually shows an animation error, where he approaches the GM with one end ignited, then slashes it with both ends ignited, then as he retreats, is shown to have only one end ignited.

Nope, there's no animation error; Gato's weapon is consistently a single-ended beam saber throughout the entire scene. Check these screenshots:

gatogelgoog01.jpg
gatogelgoog02.jpg
gatogelgoog03.jpg
gatogelgoog04.jpg

The third image shows Gato slashing the GM, and it's still a single-ended beam saber. What's more, the screenshots show that his saber doesn't even have an emitter on the butt end, so there's nowhere for the beam to come out of. And moreover, the blade itself is a straight saber - just like those of the Gyan, or the saber Char uses in the movie version of the Texas colony duel - rather than a flat, curved halberd blade.

These two screencaps say otherwise.

And watch the animation for that scene very closely, because it's hard to miss; the two beams I've circled are indeed going in a downward motion along with the Gato's Gelgoog, which implies a double sided weapon. It kind of makes it look like the animators intended for him to be using the naginata for that split second.

Given the screencaps you and I both provided, it seems he has a beam saber one second of the frame, a naginata the next, and then a beam saber again. Either it was a poorly drawn beam naginata the whole time, or two different animators must have thought he was using two different weapons for that particular moment. Either way, I call inconsistancy.

[Calubin_175]

Technically, can the pilot alternate between the straight beam saber shape and the naginata shaped one? In the Gunpla model, since there is a rack for the naginata beneath the shield, I wonder how it can be recharged?

[toysdream]

These two screencaps say otherwise.

And watch the animation for that scene very closely, because it's hard to miss; the two beams I've circled are indeed going in a downward motion along with the Gato's Gelgoog, which implies a double sided weapon. It kind of makes it look like the animators intended for him to be using the naginata for that split second.

Those horizontal lines aren't from Gato's weapon - they're just a few of the countless beam blasts that zip across the background during this scene. If you're up for one more round of screencapping, this sequence of six frames should clear things up pretty thoroughly:

gatogelgoog05.jpg

The topmost frame provides a really good look at Gato's saber. The second frame is the same one I posted earlier; note that the saber is slashing down the body of the GM, not across. As of the third frame, Gato has already completed his attack (note the position of the Gelgoog's left arm) and we now see two background beams coming in from the right side of the screen.

In the fourth frame, which is more or less the same as the first of your two frames, a third beam enters the screen and passes behind the Gelgoog's butt. The fifth frame shows all these beams passing out of the left side of the screen. The sixth and final frame - which is the same as your second screencap - shows yet another background beam entering from the right, following roughly the same trail as the last one.

What's happening here, I think, is that you're mistaking the third and fourth of the background beams - which follow a similar path as they fly from right to left across the screen, passing behind both mobile suits as they do so - for beam naginata blades. But I think the full sequence of frames makes it pretty clear what's happening, and the animation is perfectly consistent here.

-- Mark