Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

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Mafty
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Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

So what exactly is the story behind the "Children" in Evangelion? I know everyone in the main characters class has the ability to be selected as an EVA pilot, but how did this happen? Were their parents part of NERVE? Were they genetically modified at birth?
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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

Mafty wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:51 pm So what exactly is the story behind the "Children" in Evangelion?
"Poorly explained", as most things in Evangelion are.

(Evangelion was originally a mecha anime parody lampooning mecha anime tropes and otaku in general, and only later started taking itself more seriously when most of its audience failed to get the joke... part of its schtick was mocking the airs mecha anime put on to seem profound, so a lot of the supposedly deep references which the writers in Evangelion make are actually complete nonsense picked because it sounded foreign/mysterious to a Japanese audience.)


Mafty wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:51 pm I know everyone in the main characters class has the ability to be selected as an EVA pilot, but how did this happen? Were their parents part of NERVE? Were they genetically modified at birth?
No, they're regular kids... but Class 2-A at the school Shinji attends in Tokyo-3 is a deliberate artifice by NERV made up entirely of students short-listed as prospective EVA pilots as a way of keeping tabs on them.

On paper, EVA pilot candidate were selected by a NGO called the Marduk Institute using criteria which the viewer is never told. The Marduk Institute, which is supposed to be an advisory body under the Human Instrumentality Committee, doesn't actually exist and is just an elaborate diversion made up of over a hundred shell companies to distract people from noticing that NERV itself is picking the EVA pilots according to its own secret criteria.

The only criteria known as that they're around 14 years old for reasons of neurological compatibility and their mothers have died.
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Mafty
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

I 've heard of Evas interesting production history before, but I've never heard of it starting off as a parody of the mech genre and its fans, though that does actually explain a lot of the early episodes, and also seems to settle the debate to how serious the symbolism was meant to be. Its also kind interesting that despite starting off as a parody; the mech battles and designs are quite well done and seemingly take themselves seriously, kinda like how Project A-Ko is a parody, yet still has awesome and well animated fight scenes.

As for Class 2-A , there's actually a number of side materials/alternate universes, where other classmates become Eva Pilots.
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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

Mafty wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:23 am I 've heard of Evas interesting production history before, but I've never heard of it starting off as a parody of the mech genre and its fans, though that does actually explain a lot of the early episodes, and also seems to settle the debate to how serious the symbolism was meant to be.
All in all, I'm not sure why there'd even be debate about that. Hideaki Anno and co. were quite blunt about the lack of any deep, hidden meaning to their mythological references. The many references to Christianity in the series are there for no reason beyond simply sounding exotic and mysterious.

(In Japan, Christianity is a minority religion practiced by only about 1% of the population and mainly concentrated in Kyushu. While certain Christian traditions like Valentine's Day have achieved secular acceptance there, the religion's actual belief system is obscure and eccentric, if not weird and slightly off-putting.)


Mafty wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:23 am Its also kind interesting that despite starting off as a parody; the mech battles and designs are quite well done and seemingly take themselves seriously, kinda like how Project A-Ko is a parody, yet still has awesome and well animated fight scenes.
Much of it was satire of its audience... with the awkward, introverted, socially-withdrawn, passive, and generally pathetic Shinji Ikari was a send-up of the show's audience. Shinji was an audience surrogate character meant to serve as a scathing critique of the audience. "This Loser is You", as it were.

(I quite admire Hideaki Anno's efforts to hoist a middle finger to his own audience... End of Evangelion being a masterwork of pettiness that should endure into eternity as an example of one artist's disgust for the audience... fully eighty-seven minutes of Hideaki Anno finding new and inventive ways to tell his audience to F*** right off.)


Mafty wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:23 am As for Class 2-A , there's actually a number of side materials/alternate universes, where other classmates become Eva Pilots.
Yes, unfortunately the property took off after the otaku crowd Missed the Message completely and spawned all manner of unironic spinoffs and so on. Quite honestly, the best ones are the ones where Shinji is a normal kid completely disgusted by his overbearing helicopter parent of a father.
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Mafty
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

The issue I found was that there is so much contradictory information out there about various series (that's why I've been trying to look beyond fan wiki's like Tv Tropes), and it's not always clear which source is accurate.

I'm not surprised by the Faux Symbolism angle though, I took a course in University that explained Christianity in Japan is in a minority, and I've seen other sources that say Christian Symbolism in many anime is a form of exoticism more than anything else: which makes sense when you consider how Western media often does the same to things not as familiar to it's audience.

You really can see the swipes at fandom though, especially in the original ending movie. Which makes it ironic that spin offs go from criticizing creepy fanservice, to promoting it to sell merchandise.
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Arsarcana
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

On the subject of 'what makes an Eva pilot in the TV series?' the one factor that all the pilots and pilot candidates have in common aside from the lack of a living mother is that they were all born after Second Impact (or literally on the same day for Kaworu but he's a special case). Whether this is a requirement that got explained in some source somewhere or it's just an artifact of NERV wanting a very particular set of traits in its pilots I can't say. Rei, Shinji and Asuka were all hand-picked for very specific reasons and Kaworu was forced on NERV for another very specific reason, so Touji's the only one who got the position via genuine selection.

Rebuild throws a big fat monkey wrench into both of those two commonalities, especially with the final film.
Spoiler
Mari goes through three different Evas in the course of the films and has no trouble synchronizing with any of them (no 'mother's soul associated with this Eva' argument) and the final film reveals that she is considerably older than the other Children. Asuka herself pilots two Evas and her background was changed to be... different.
So in those films the criteria for being an Eva pilot boils down to: Because we said so.
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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

Arsarcana wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:57 pm So in those films the criteria for being an Eva pilot boils down to: Because we said so.
The Omniscient Council of Vagueness is under no obligation to explain itself to anyone... least of all to the audience. And unfortunately Evangelion's exposition is mainly delivered by Omniscient Councils of Vagueness.
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Mafty
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

True, mysterious background references can be a mixed bag depending on the series. Sometimes things can be deliberately left to interpretation (Haman and Char's relationship troubles in Zeta, what Sciroccos exact plan was, numerous things in Cowboy Bebop) or be the result of issues in writing (i.e. certain parts of Seed Destiny's plot had to be spelled out with added scenes in the Compilation movies due to not being explained otherwise). Given Eva's start as a parody, it's seems part of the joke was keeping stuff vague.
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Seto Kaiba
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

Mafty wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:34 pm Given Eva's start as a parody, it's seems part of the joke was keeping stuff vague.
It's a pretty safe bet the vagueness surrounding the Children in Evangelion is a bit of a jab at the Gundam franchise's persistent vagueness surrounding Newtypes. And how those Newtype protagonists are almost always kids in their early teens who were either raised by a neglectful single father or who lost both parents and who end up as the pilot of an amazing new giant robot seemingly for no other reason than because they were around at the time in spite of being emotionally stunted and/or horribly maladjusted...

Basically, the Marduk Institute's/NERV's criteria for selecting Children seems to be "do you have all of the character references of a Gundam protagonist?".
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Mafty
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

I hadn't thought about that , but it makes sense...

Newtypisim is indeed kinda vague thorough out the franchise(it's only really in more recent works that it starts being explored more in-depth), at the best it can lead to more positive and interesting story ideas (Hathaway and Quess discussing the ideals of Newtype brain function and adaptation, Lahla and Amuro feeling humanity becoming Newtypes will usher in a new era of understanding) at worst it becomes a vaguely defined Deus Ex Machina to allow the pilots to do seemingly anything, because Newtypes (Elle Vianno piloting a Mobile Suit after reading a manual for five minutes, Maria Pia Armonia literally healing peoples injuries, Mobile Suits being able to do almost anything come the final battle, etc).

To be fair though Gundam doesn't always flesh out its storylines and characters the most at times, leading to some vagueness in general in the storyline(as has been said before Sciroccos intentions, Char and Haman's relationship, the fate of Fa's parents in ZZ, a lot of backstory covered in side materials in F91, etc.). It's also interesting after reading an interview with Yaz; he claimed that sometimes Tomino's story ideas were a bit vaguely written, and this could show up in the final product.
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MythSearcher
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Re: Evangelion Children (SPOILER)

If you really want to have a more detailed background of Eva, it seems like the PS2 game Evangelion 2 was the best thing you can get.
I haven't finished playing the game as it is tediously long on the PSP version.
My Japanese was not as good at the time so reading that is quite difficult(and I surely don't have the will to pull out my PSP now and start playing that again), especially it is still your typical Eva filled with vagueness, and you don't get the thing in one go, the game supposedly let you play in a lot of different people's views, including one of those men in black agents, and you apparently still have to piece together everything yourself.

There was an English translated script of the game online a few years ago(likely still there) as a simple text file if you are interested, but you will have to find that yourself.
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