Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

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False Prophet
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Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

Post by False Prophet » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 am

Does anyone here feel like there is a marketing dimension to the design of Axis Zeon mobile suits? I mean, there are MS like the Zaku III, Dreissen, R-Jarja, Gazu-L and -R that directly recalls OYW units. On one hand, that is because these new MS evolved from their old predecessors, but it also give me the feeling that Axis Zeon had tried to paint itself as the legitimate successor of Zeon. It wasn't like Axis was the only Zeon remanant force, and while they had got Minerva, a lot of people would have had "questions" about Haman. Glemmy's rebellion therefore seemed not like something that came out of nowhere, but Haman and her court had actually knew and feared about it, therefore leading to their efforts to prove their legitimacy.

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Re: Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

Post by Mafty » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:05 pm

The dimension I noticed is that in addition to the OYW refernces a few suits have a quasi Knight theme(though not as much as say Panzer World Galient), which still follows some of the OYW Zeon designs (ie the Gyan), as well as modelling their group structure on a rather loose adaptation of Medieval Kingdoms. It's worth noting that even the first Zeon didn't go that far with their Medieval influence; there was the Royal Family of the Principality, but aside from that the soldiers had standard ranks, and the mobile suits borrowed from a number of design's.

Neo Zeon has their top pilots as knights piloting knight mecha and wearing 1980s styled futuristic space knight uniforms: Haman and her top subordinates live in a Castle, and all of Axis is basically the Kingdom of Neo Zeon. Which makes sense given all the infighting between Haman, her puppet Mineva, and Glemmy over the "rightful" ruler of the Zeon Forces. In fact compared to Newborn Neo Zeon this seemed to be the movement more tied to "nobility" and "birthright"s as it were, Something we later see to a lesser degree with the Sleeves.

This which is probably why the fallout was so much worse , (SPOILERS)than the comparatively minor rebellion of Gyunei (ie he died before he could do anything). Char is ultimately worshiped more as a visionary whom will guide humanity, the fact that his father was the original founder is arguably secondary to various people in the movement(ie, Char isn't even his birth name, and unlike Mineva nobody ever tries to drag Sayla into any of this chaos).

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Re: Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:20 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 am
Does anyone here feel like there is a marketing dimension to the design of Axis Zeon mobile suits? I mean, there are MS like the Zaku III, Dreissen, R-Jarja, Gazu-L and -R that directly recalls OYW units. On one hand, that is because these new MS evolved from their old predecessors, but it also give me the feeling that Axis Zeon had tried to paint itself as the legitimate successor of Zeon.
Not quite... Axis Zeon's whole schtick when it began to assert itself in the Earth Sphere in the UC 0080s was that it was the Principality of Zeon's government-in-exile. They did not claim to be a successor state, their assertion was that they were a continuation of the legitimate government of the Principality of Zeon established by Degwin Zabi in UC 0069. Axis Zeon was, as far as Axis Zeon was concerned, the same Zeon government that declared and then lost the One Year War.

They made a pretty reasonable argument for their legitimacy too, given that Axis Zeon's government was run by the surviving Principality of Zeon officials. Its acting head of state, Regent Maharaja Karn, was a member of the inner circle of Sovereign Degwin Sodo Zabi and he was acting as regent until the surviving Zabi heir, Mineva Lao Zabi, could come of age. Their military was composed of nearly 1/2 of the Principality of Zeon's total surviving forces after the Battle of A Baoa Qu.

(The closest real world comparison I can think of, though it is definitely unflattering, is Taiwan... the seat of the Republic of China's government after mainland China was taken over by the communists and became the People's Republic of China. Taiwan's government continues to assert that it is the sole legitimate government of China.)



False Prophet wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 am
It wasn't like Axis was the only Zeon remanant force, and while they had got Minerva, a lot of people would have had "questions" about Haman. Glemmy's rebellion therefore seemed not like something that came out of nowhere, but Haman and her court had actually knew and feared about it, therefore leading to their efforts to prove their legitimacy.
Axis Zeon was essentially the only Zeonic remnant that presented itself as an actual functioning state, where the other remnants were pockets of Zeon's military that simply hadn't given up the fight yet like the Delaz fleet.

The Glemy Faction and its rebellion against Haman Karn's newly rebranded Neo Zeon had nothing to do with the perceived legitimacy of Axis Zeon. The cause of the Glemy Faction's formation was Zabi loyalists inside Haman's Neo Zeon who suspected (not without evidence) that Regent Haman Karn intended to permanently usurp rule of Zeon and use the Zabi heir as a figurehead to cement her authority instead of stepping down once Mineva came of age. To wit, they believed the legitimate Zabi-led Principality of Zeon government was being usurped by Haman Karn. Neither side questioned the legitimacy of Axis Zeon as the true continuation of the Principality of Zeon in exile, it was all about (perceived) loyalty to the Zabi family.
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Re: Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

Post by Cardi Doorl » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 am

False Prophet wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 am
Glemmy's rebellion therefore seemed not like something that came out of nowhere, but Haman and her court had actually knew and feared about it...
I know this is straying from the "mecha and technology" aspect of this thread, but I think there's plenty of evidence that Haman didn't regard Glemy as a threat, regardless of how Axis Zeon/1st NZ mecha looked. Throughout ZZ Gundam, there's no indication that Haman distrusts Glemy, and in fact she keeps entrusting him with greater authority as the story progresses: he was first introduced as some random mobile suit pilot and by the Earth arc he had some degree of command, and only climbed from there to even higher places of trust.

One could argue Haman was pursuing a "keep your enemies closer" approach to Glemy, but she never seems to keep him under surveillance (he has no problem secretly raising an army of newtype clones right under her nose), which is the point of keeping your enemies close. It's been a few years since I last watched ZZ Gundam, but I can't recall any dialogue indicating that she suspects Glemy's intentions, either. Her actions suggest that she was completely blindsided by Glemy's rebellion, making the same fatal mistake that Gihren had before her: she took it for granted that her house was in order and that internal dissent had been dealt with for good.
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Re: Axis Zeon, iconography, and popular support

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:07 am

Cardi Doorl wrote:
Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:57 am
False Prophet wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:08 am
Glemmy's rebellion therefore seemed not like something that came out of nowhere, but Haman and her court had actually knew and feared about it...
I know this is straying from the "mecha and technology" aspect of this thread, but I think there's plenty of evidence that Haman didn't regard Glemy as a threat, regardless of how Axis Zeon/1st NZ mecha looked. Throughout ZZ Gundam, there's no indication that Haman distrusts Glemy, and in fact she keeps entrusting him with greater authority as the story progresses: he was first introduced as some random mobile suit pilot and by the Earth arc he had some degree of command, and only climbed from there to even higher places of trust.

One could argue Haman was pursuing a "keep your enemies closer" approach to Glemy, but she never seems to keep him under surveillance (he has no problem secretly raising an army of newtype clones right under her nose), which is the point of keeping your enemies close. It's been a few years since I last watched ZZ Gundam, but I can't recall any dialogue indicating that she suspects Glemy's intentions, either. Her actions suggest that she was completely blindsided by Glemy's rebellion, making the same fatal mistake that Gihren had before her: she took it for granted that her house was in order and that internal dissent had been dealt with for good.
There are depictions about her being very strict, cunning and crude against any political opponents who opposed her, and Axis should have been cleared of anyone who openly opposes her, whoever still has such thoughts must be hiding them really well.
She is also making the reasonable assumption that Glemy will not be so idiotic and rebel before the victory against EF, because it would basically just kill off both of them and let EF has the final victory. We can see that she can take care of Glemy forces without any problem, one of her cyber NT loyalist already took care of most of the Ple clones in a really short period, she herself didn't even need to be present at all times and can attend more important things. So saying she is completely ignorant and wasn't prepared really isn't too fair.
Glemy is idiotic enough to pick the worst time to rebel, and that's that.

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