How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

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False Prophet
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How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by False Prophet » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:43 am

You can certainly modify a pre-Gryps MS to accept moveable frame, as demonstrated by the Pale Rider being made into the Todesritter. What I want to ask how easy is this to do hypothetically? I presume not, since if it was the case, the EFF would had chosen to modify the GM III instead of making new Jegan units. With all the new reactor and backpack (I wonder whether the Jegan's backpack performs better than the GM III's MK-II's style backpack), it is probably easier to built an entirely new frame to accomodate these new components.

Do we have any real-world example about this situation? For example, how much can you modify the frame of a car? And how expensive is it?

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:10 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:43 am
You can certainly modify a pre-Gryps MS to accept moveable frame, as demonstrated by the Pale Rider being made into the Todesritter. What I want to ask how easy is this to do hypothetically?
"Modify" might be the wrong word. The way it's described, it sounds a lot more like what Axis Zeon did was build an entirely new movable frame MS around the core components of the HADES system they salvaged from the Pale Rider wreckage that Zeon captured during the One Year War using mostly Neo Zeon technology.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:43 am
Do we have any real-world example about this situation? For example, how much can you modify the frame of a car? And how expensive is it?
Modifying the frame of a car usually means rebuilding the car from the ground up... if only because getting down to the frame means taking the entire car off the car. :lol:

One of the few major exceptions would be making "stretch" versions, which usually involves partially stripping that car down and then sawing it in freaking half. It's expensive and time consuming.
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MythSearcher
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Re: How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:19 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:10 pm

"Modify" might be the wrong word. The way it's described, it sounds a lot more like what Axis Zeon did was build an entirely new movable frame MS around the core components of the HADES system they salvaged from the Pale Rider wreckage that Zeon captured during the One Year War using mostly Neo Zeon technology.
And most of the MSV-R EFF/AE/FSS Super Gelgoogs are newly built units, not modified ones.
One of the few major exceptions would be making "stretch" versions, which usually involves partially stripping that car down and then sawing it in freaking half. It's expensive and time consuming.
Sorry, extreme side question.
I have always wondered how do they do that without weakening the structure, they can surely cut it in half and weld it back together, but since they cannot quench and temper the finished product(at least not the whole thing), wouldn't that severely weaken the frame?

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Re: How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by False Prophet » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:19 pm
And most of the MSV-R EFF/AE/FSS Super Gelgoogs are newly built units, not modified ones.
You mean suits like the Gelgoog Uma Lightning, or the ReGelgu? The later I suspect were built completely new, though they seemed to retain a level of part compatibility with the older Gelgood -- in the latest volume Johnny Ridden had a High Mobility Gelgoog equipped with the ReGelgu's binders.

Since you are here, Kaiba, can I ask how hard is it to install a rollcage to existing car?

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Re: How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:56 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:19 pm
Sorry, extreme side question.
I have always wondered how do they do that without weakening the structure, they can surely cut it in half and weld it back together, but since they cannot quench and temper the finished product(at least not the whole thing), wouldn't that severely weaken the frame?
Most makers of stretch vehicles use overlapping frame rails to increase the strength of the resulting stretch vehicle.

By making the stretch frame rail slightly smaller than the manufacturer's frame, several inches of stretch frame are actually inside of the manufacturer's frame and the two frames are joined by welds at multiple locations along that overlapping section of frame. RWD stretch vehicles also sometimes further increase the structural rigidity with the installation of a reinforced driveshaft tunnel that acts as a fifth frame rail.



False Prophet wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am
You mean suits like the Gelgoog Uma Lightning, or the ReGelgu? The later I suspect were built completely new, though they seemed to retain a level of part compatibility with the older Gelgood -- in the latest volume Johnny Ridden had a High Mobility Gelgoog equipped with the ReGelgu's binders.
I'd say the Todesritter is more similar to what was done with the Mars Zeon mobile suits... which outwardly look like older Zeon mobile suits, but under the hood the technology is substantially newer.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am
Since you are here, Kaiba, can I ask how hard is it to install a rollcage to existing car?
On an aftermarket installation, you'd have to remove the car's interior (seats, carpet, headliner, center console, etc.) first. Then the roll cage goes in in pieces and is either bolted or welded to the vehicle body and bolted or welded into a single contiguous piece. After that, the interior of the car can be reinstalled.
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Re: How easy can you modify a non-moveable frame MS to a moveable frame one?

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:33 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:56 pm
Most makers of stretch vehicles use overlapping frame rails to increase the strength of the resulting stretch vehicle.

By making the stretch frame rail slightly smaller than the manufacturer's frame, several inches of stretch frame are actually inside of the manufacturer's frame and the two frames are joined by welds at multiple locations along that overlapping section of frame. RWD stretch vehicles also sometimes further increase the structural rigidity with the installation of a reinforced driveshaft tunnel that acts as a fifth frame rail.
I see, that makes sense. So basically they exchanged mass efficiency to reinforce the weakened parts.
False Prophet wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am
You mean suits like the Gelgoog Uma Lightning, or the ReGelgu? The later I suspect were built completely new, though they seemed to retain a level of part compatibility with the older Gelgood -- in the latest volume Johnny Ridden had a High Mobility Gelgoog equipped with the ReGelgu's binders.
Earlier in the story they specifically states that the should they picked up "looks like" a Gelgoog but is built with EFF's newest technology, so they are not modified but newly built.

Part compatibility isn't sticking an old units shoulders to a new suit's back pack, but directly using parts for the same purpose. Ok, it sort of is, but I can always make a universal hard point on a MS so that you can attach a head unit to the back of it an claim compatibility while it serves "additional" function but not its "original" function.

If they can install an old Gelgoog's arm to replace the newly built super Gelgoog (with some degree of lowering the performance, I assume), that is part compatibility.
A good example will be Zeta Zaku, that is part compatibility to its finest, but most impractical, moment.

Of course usually we get to replace a motor or a screw, not a whole MS limb.

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