The Macross Valkyrie Thread

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Seto Kaiba
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:03 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:37 am
Say Kaiba, have you seen the silhouette of the new VF for the Delta movie? Do you have any speculation on it?
*points up to my previous post*

Yes, yes I have.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 9:37 am
Also, a random question, but how many time did the Windermerian used the swords on their VF?
Only once that I can recall in the Macross Delta TV series... right before the ending when Keith confronts Roid in the Star Shrine on Ragna, and Roid summons a Sv-262Hs under mind control to fight Keith. There's a brief sword fight that ends in a mutual kill, with Keith bailing out and then running Roid through with his sword.

They also use them once or twice in the movie, but IIRC it was Mirage who actually used it most in her stolen Sv-262Ba.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:04 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:14 pm
https://imgur.com/a/QtbH3ex

So we've got a new VF design from Shoji Kawamori for the forthcoming Macross Delta: Absolute Live!!!!!! movie due out next year.

First blush reaction, this looks like a minimally-tweaked version of one of the early VF-27 drafts I remember seeing in Shoji Kawamori: the View Point of Visionary Creator years ago. The lack of an obvious canopy, the large sensor blisters, its delta wing with through-wing engine nacelles, small inward-canted stabilizers, etc. all positively scream General Galaxy's handiwork. This looks like nothing quite so much as a direct descendant of the VF-14. Five'll get you twenty this is either a new Dian Cecht SV Works unit or another General Galaxy 5th Generation main VF (perhaps an economized VF-27 derivative).
Just punting this onto the next page, since the new VF Kawamori unveiled is likely to be a hot topic.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:38 pm

Economized VF-27? Isn't that is just stripping away the most expensive Quartz-made components, and maybe changing the user interface to accommodate non-cyborg pilots?

Also, do you think that because the VF-14 is good with long-range cruising and easy to maintain, it is fitting for a frontier place like Brisingr?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:45 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:38 pm
Economized VF-27? Isn't that is just stripping away the most expensive Quartz-made components, and maybe changing the user interface to accommodate non-cyborg pilots?
The VF-27 doesn't have any fold quartz-based hardware besides the Inertia Store Converter protecting the cockpit from high g-forces. It never had a fold wave system like the YF-29 or VF-31 Custom, a fold dimensional resonance system like the YF-30, or a fold reheat like the Sv-262.

An economized VF-27 might be something closer to the YF-27-3 or YF-25-5... a delta-wing twin-engine design with the armored canopy, holographic cockpit, and the heavy beam gunpod for a more balanced, less dogfighter-y performance profile appropriate to a multirole fighter.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:38 pm
Also, do you think that because the VF-14 is good with long-range cruising and easy to maintain, it is fitting for a frontier place like Brisingr?
Absolutely. General Galaxy's VF-14 Vampire would have been a very attractive option for the Brisingr Alliance when they were choosing their 3rd Generation main variable fighter. Its large airframe's high fuel capacity and high thrust would've made it an attractive option as a space fighter that doesn't need FAST Packs. Its large airframe also makes it extremely easy to upgrade, which would've helped them keep them in service for as long as possible. The VF-14 was very popular despite losing out to the VF-11 for the main NUNS's 3rd Gen main fighter for precisely those reasons, and it was also an extremely popular VF with the Zentradi due to its high frame durability and excellent defensive performance.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am

Say, of all the features found on the YF-27, YF-29 and YF-30, which do you think have the most chance to be implemented widespread in the future? Would the Earth central authority take a look at these machines and try to learn something to upgrade the VF-24?

Also, was it a coincidence or not for the YF-30/VF-31A to have the same broken delta wings as the VF-24? How far would a hypothetical VF-31 variant need to go to be able to catch up with the VF-24?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:46 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am
Say, of all the features found on the YF-27, YF-29 and YF-30, which do you think have the most chance to be implemented widespread in the future? Would the Earth central authority take a look at these machines and try to learn something to upgrade the VF-24?
Hard to say, since there aren't actually THAT many standout features on any of those designs... they differ from typical 5th Generation VFs in their commitment to overwhelming performance by simple brute force. Macross Galaxy's VF-27 Lucifer was very similar to the VF-25 in terms of most of its hardware, its greater performance being a product of brute force application of power achieved with the addition of a second set of main engines. Macross Frontier's YF-29 used similar means, with four extremely expensive engines and a fold wave system to augment their performance. There is even less difference in the YF-30, which literally just borrowed the YF-29's engines and created an improved version of the fold wave system.

The only thing they've got that really screams "potentially advantageous" is the VF-27's perfected BDI. The situational awareness and control-response improvements that come from being able to make the fighter a literal extension of a pilot's body cannot be overstated, and there is a modest advantage in survivability to be had in not having to have the cockpit protected on all sides by energy conversion armor instead of having a weaker canopy exposed. The full-body cyborg soldiers Macross Galaxy used are illegal under galaxy law, but network implants themselves aren't... and there are other less extreme body modifications that can also be used to improve a pilot's performance like Vanquish racer Nicolas Berthier's bio-fiber-optic nervous system.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am
Also, was it a coincidence or not for the YF-30/VF-31A to have the same broken delta wings as the VF-24?
Nah, the VF-31A was developed from the YF-30, which was in turn developed from the YF-24 Evolution spec which was disseminated to the emigrant governments. The YF-30's developer Aisha Blanchett reworked the transformation of the YF-24 to suit her addition of the ordnance container system, but keeping the base design mostly the same would have made most of the engineering legwork fairly simple.

Like almost every 5th Gen VF we've seen thus far - the exception being the Draken III - they're all modestly reworked versions of the base YF-24 Evolution design. The YF-30 is no different in that regard.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:26 am
How far would a hypothetical VF-31 variant need to go to be able to catch up with the VF-24?
Much farther than the Brisingr Alliance can afford to take it... the VF-31A's performance is about on par with the initial trial production VF-25A from nearly a decade earlier, which is not terribly surprising given how many parts they share in common. The YF-29, the performance of which was only narrowly matched by the VF-27 Super Lucifer, was an attempt to exceed the performance of the full spec YF-24, and that was so expensive that the Macross Frontier fleet could only afford to build one... and they're one of the wealthier emigrant governments.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm

Fiber-optic nervous system, how does that work? If it is the thing that I have in mind, then how far have humanity's miniaturization technology reached?

And if the difference between the full-spec YF-24 and what the colonies received is that much, wouldn't the colonies file a complain to the central government? After all, they are more likely to encounter hostiles (the recent war really ZOINKS Earth that bad?)

Also, do you think that Earth and other colony governments would attempt to prosecute Epsilon Foundation for the involvement with Windermere, and then use that as an excuse to examine the Draken III? I could see the future whereas they would make a VF-171 successor from the Draken III.

Also, what do we know about the Sv-154 Svärd?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:27 am

False Prophet wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm
Fiber-optic nervous system, how does that work? If it is the thing that I have in mind, then how far have humanity's miniaturization technology reached?
Given that the only other place that technology is mentioned is the DYRL? Meltrandi, it's probably not human-developed technology.

As to how it works, we can only guess because it's not explained in any real depth. Just that the electrochemical motor nerves are replaced by bio-fiber optics that use light impulses instead.


False Prophet wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm
And if the difference between the full-spec YF-24 and what the colonies received is that much, wouldn't the colonies file a complain to the central government? After all, they are more likely to encounter hostiles (the recent war really ZOINKS Earth that bad?)
Well, they'd have nobody but their own elected officials to blame... since the New UN Government assembly are the ones who voted to restrict exports of certain technologies to the emigrant fleets and to impose various other restrictions on emigrant government forces.

Basically, the Sharon Apple incident really rattled the New UN Government. The idea that there were fighters in active development that could blow through Earth's own defenses like it was nothing at all was a frightening and worrying prospect, especially the idea that emigrant forces might employ their amazing capabilities against each other or the New UN Government itself in the various outbreaks of minor hostilities, or that they might end up in the hands of violent anti-government groups. So arms exports were restricted by newly enacted laws, while they continued to equip the theoretically impartial supranational New UN Forces that answered directly to the NUNG itself with the best toys so that they could step in and reliably outgun any one uppity national government if any kind of inter-governmental dispute broke out.

This policy that Earth and the supranational New UN Forces keep the "biggest stick" to sort out any disputes that get out of hand and tackle the biggest threats is still the policy on the books twenty-plus years later, and nobody seems to mind all that much since the supranational military doesn't intervene in political disputes and is heavily restricted in how it can act by the government and the Barnrose Authority's oversight commission. It keeps the emigrant forces on a more or less level playing field, working from their own merits rather than their ability to splurge on the most expensive weapons from Earth, and ensures that there's always a bigger fish who can step in and restore order if a conflict gets out of control.


False Prophet wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm
Also, do you think that Earth and other colony governments would attempt to prosecute Epsilon Foundation for the involvement with Windermere, and then use that as an excuse to examine the Draken III? I could see the future whereas they would make a VF-171 successor from the Draken III.
Oh, I suspect the Epsilon Foundation will find itself under all kinds of scrutiny from the individual governments of the Brisingr Alliance, the Brisingr Alliance itself, and the New UN Government, and that Berger Stone will offer his complete cooperation in an attempt to save his own skin.

That said, the Draken III's specs were probably already disclosed in accordance with galaxy law given that, as soon as the Aerial Knights stopped using that powerful ECM to prevent them from being identified, Xaos identified their aircraft as the Sv-262 Draken III with minimal effort. Windermere IV was probably not the only customer for that fighter.

There are already plenty of VF-171 successors kicking around... Earth's VF-24, Frontier's VF-25, Galaxy's VF-27, and Brisingr's VF-31 to name the ones that've shown up so far. It's kind of implied in a number of different sources that VF-24 monkey models and the VF-25 kind of cornered the market on 5th Generation main fighters, though Brisingr is hoping that they can make some money exporting the VF-31 to stimulate their stagnant economy further. The Sv-262 Draken III is a 5th Generation VF, so it could potentially have become a VF-171-replacement if anyone had adopted it to replace their existing fleet of VF-171s.


False Prophet wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:36 pm
Also, what do we know about the Sv-154 Svärd?
Almost nothing... just that it exists, it's modeled on the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter via Kawamori's Air Cavalry Chronicles design LV-7 Valorous Rapier (a Fanelian VF from that proto-Escaflowne concept), and that it's apparently a 4th Generation VF developed by the SV Works.

It was the main fighter of Windermere IV's Aerial Knights until some point between 2060 and 2067, when it was replaced by the Sv-262 Draken III.
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