The Macross Valkyrie Thread

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by hitokirigarou » Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:08 am

What advantages does the VF-31 have over the VF-25?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:16 am

Managed to get my hand on a Master File VF-31. What the heck are the VF-31AF, VF-31HM, VF-31L, VF-31V, VF-31R, VF-31JW, and VF-31U, whose biggest differences are wing/canard designs?

Also, there is a section on some group called "Volunteer Knights of Akarelia" who flew their own Siegfried.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:05 am

hitokirigarou wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:08 am
What advantages does the VF-31 have over the VF-25?
Hard to say, given that the VF-31A shares most of its parts in common with the VF-25A.

The big ones are going to be the multimission flexibility conferred by the ordnance container system inherited from the YF-30 Chronos and better passive stealth performance owing to its armaments being more internalized. Overall, their actual quantity of armaments is roughly the same but the VF-31 is going to pay for the better passive stealth with less versatility since it has four pylons, two internal bays, and two internal micro-missile launchers instead of eight pylons.

The ordnance container is the real coup here, since it more or less eliminates the need for specialist variants to handle certain missions like the RVF-25 Mainstay. Instead, you've got a modular equipment container that can be exchanged within a few minutes that can allow the VF-31 Kairos to swap from fighter to attacker to electronic warfare to airborne early warning to reconnaissance at the drop of a hat depending on what's needed. (If you look with a careful eye, you can see a rack of different ordnance containers in the hangar on the Aether in Macross Delta, though Xaos's Ragna 3rd Fighter Wing Delta Flight only used three types in the show: the multidrone recharger, the fold speaker, and fold wave radar.

Ordinarily a delta wing design would carry the obvious benefit of more fuel capacity vs. a VG wing or a forward swept wing, but because the delta wing design also came with more of the fighter's weaponry being stored internally that is naturally going to reduce or even eliminate any gains in fuel capacity brought by the larger wing surface.

They're using the same model of engine (FF-3001A), so the VF-25 can likely also employ the LU-18A heavy quantum beam rifle the VF-31 uses.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:12 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:16 am
Managed to get my hand on a Master File VF-31. What the heck are the VF-31AF, VF-31HM, VF-31L, VF-31V, VF-31R, VF-31JW, and VF-31U, whose biggest differences are wing/canard designs?
Filler.

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried is a real mess. Most of it is shamelessly copy-pasted material from Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah, which is technically appropriate given that the VF-31 reuses a lot of VF-25 hardware, and what isn't copied is mostly BS that contradicts the official setting.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:30 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:12 am
Filler.

Variable Fighter Master File: VF-31 Siegfried is a real mess. Most of it is shamelessly copy-pasted material from Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah, which is technically appropriate given that the VF-31 reuses a lot of VF-25 hardware, and what isn't copied is mostly BS that contradicts the official setting.
Is it that bad? How much oversight does Kawamori have over these supplemental materials? Also, do you think a future publication would go back and retcon these false information?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:45 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:30 pm
Is it that bad?
Considering people buy these books for the technical detail... kinda, yeah.

The VF-31 book was just kind of a mess, and the reason why is right there in the title. Instead of writing a book for the Surya Aerospace VF-31 Kairos that's going to be the next main fighter of the New UN Forces in the Brisingr cluster, the authors wrote a book mainly about a handful of one-off custom VFs and largely ignored the military specification as if the Siegfried custom was going to ever be in production with its bank-breaking price tag.

(The Brisingr Alliance is a political, economic, and strategic alliance of worlds in the Brisingr cluster that you can think of as "Space NATO meets Space NAFTA". The catch is the entire region is underdeveloped economically becuase it's as far into the space boonies as you can conceivably get without leaving the galaxy entirely, so they're doing most things on the cheap like new fighter development. If one of the wealthiest emigrant fleets in the galaxy could only afford to build one YF-29 because of its excessive fold quartz requirements and high specs, there's no way the Brisingr Alliance is going to be building VF-31 Siegfrieds at any point... that's why their next main fighter, the VF-31 Kairos, is mostly made from off the shelf parts developed for other models of VF.)


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:30 pm
How much oversight does Kawamori have over these supplemental materials? Also, do you think a future publication would go back and retcon these false information?
As far as we know, Kawamori has broad editorial powers over all Macross products being created... but since the Master File books all bear a disclaimer indicating they are not official setting material he doesn't really have much reason to wade in and start vetoing content.

Odds are since Master File is already essentially "non-canon" (as far as the word "canon" stretches in Macross) I don't see any publication bothering.

Officially, there are only two variants of VF-31: the VF-31A Kairos and VF-31B Kairos. The VF-31 Siegfrieds are all unique, one-off custom jobs made by modifying VF-31A airframes, and there are only five of them (four if you count the one that Hayate lost in the midseason battle on Ragna).
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:19 am

Kaiba, you once said in this thread that the colony fleets just don't jump to the middle of nowhere, but they send out probes first. How these probes are like? Are they manned or not?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:48 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:19 am
Kaiba, you once said in this thread that the colony fleets just don't jump to the middle of nowhere, but they send out probes first. How these probes are like? Are they manned or not?
's not really probes, it's pilot fleets. (Printed materials draw a comparison to pilot fish.)

One of the main duties of the New UN Spacy escort fleet accompanying an emigrant ship is advance recon ahead of the emigrant ship to ensure that it won't blunder into a dangerous situation when it makes a long-distance fold to a resource-rich area for resupply or to investigate a potential planet for settlement. Early on, this would've been the role of fold-capable escort warships... and still is over long distances. Short distance scouting is done with fighters outfitted with fold boosters, such as what we saw in Macross Frontier's sixth episode with RVF-171s folding to the rendezvous area to ensure the forces coming to support the Macross Galaxy refugees weren't going to be folding into an ambush.

The Northampton-class is heavily used in this role, as a small stealth warship with a long range fold system and modest fighter complement.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:00 pm

Say, is there any third-party company making bootleg VF? I just found out about the VF-25's concept art (http://www.toyark.com/attachments/109d1 ... 17dcecc60a) and it would be cool to see it in a 3D model.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:46 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:00 pm
Say, is there any third-party company making bootleg VF? I just found out about the VF-25's concept art (http://www.toyark.com/attachments/109d1 ... 17dcecc60a) and it would be cool to see it in a 3D model.
Well, some would argue that Harmony Gold's licensees are making bootleg Macross toys... but I do know that a few small toy bootleggers are doing bootleg Macross stuff. I don't know any of the specifics since I'm not a toy collector (or at least not much of one), but there's a rather long thread on MacrossWorld about it.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:12 am

Hmm... A single-engine Valkyrie is an impossible thing, right? If I remember correctly, there is a Transformer who is based on the F-16, but I suppose no designer would radically change the Valkyrie's legs to accomodate a single-engine design.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:32 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:12 am
Hmm... A single-engine Valkyrie is an impossible thing, right? If I remember correctly, there is a Transformer who is based on the F-16, but I suppose no designer would radically change the Valkyrie's legs to accomodate a single-engine design.
It'd require an unconventional transformation to pull it off... mostly because the engines are typically housed in the legs to facilitate hovering and maneuvering in Battroid mode. A design similar to the VF-22's, which kept its engine compartments in the main body and used bypass venting and sub-nozzles to provide thrust for lift in GERWALK and Battroid modes could be made to work on a single engine. It just wouldn't be a significant complexity reduction in comparison to a two-engine Valkyrie thanks to all the plumbing for the additional vents and nozzles.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:49 pm

That is a shame. I really like single-engine aircrafts.

Say, what is the current state of chemical/biological weapon technology in modern day Macross?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:49 pm
That is a shame. I really like single-engine aircrafts.
There's a possibility one of the cheap VFs from the early colony years might've been a single-engine design, but on the average twin-engine designs have a pretty significant advantage.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 7:49 pm
Say, what is the current state of chemical/biological weapon technology in modern day Macross?
Unclear, at best... possibly nonexistant.

I don't believe chemical weapons have even been mentioned in Macross given their indiscriminate and inhumane nature. The term "biological weapon" has taken on a somewhat different meaning in a galaxy where highly advanced genetic engineering technology enabled the ancient Protoculture to create both biological versions of the technology they used and develop designer organisms for military applications like the Zentradi, the Evil series bioweapons, the Birdhuman(s), and the Dyaus. You could say their track record is... mixed. They lost control over the Zentradi due to having screwed up the Evil series, but the Dyaus and Birdhumans worked fine (more or less).

The New UN Government attempted to create living weapons of its own not long after the First Space War, but it didn't go so well due to the experimental giant insectoid bioweapons proving to be uncontrollable. The Dancing Skulls were dispatched to destroy the prototypes and the base that produced them in 2022. The military seems to have given up on that technology, though in the manga Macross Dynamite 7: Mylene Beat the New UN Forces in the 7th New Macross fleet attempted to clone an Evil series (for reasons?) and in Macross 7 Trash an unscrupulous New UN Forces Colonel attached to the same fleet experimented with re-weaponizing the Zentradi as slave soldiers through the technological manipulation of their emotions, but was foiled by Max and a pro athlete he clandestinely hired.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:55 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:09 pm
There's a possibility one of the cheap VFs from the early colony years might've been a single-engine design, but on the average twin-engine designs have a pretty significant advantage.

Unclear, at best... possibly nonexistant.

I don't believe chemical weapons have even been mentioned in Macross given their indiscriminate and inhumane nature. The term "biological weapon" has taken on a somewhat different meaning in a galaxy where highly advanced genetic engineering technology enabled the ancient Protoculture to create both biological versions of the technology they used and develop designer organisms for military applications like the Zentradi, the Evil series bioweapons, the Birdhuman(s), and the Dyaus. You could say their track record is... mixed. They lost control over the Zentradi due to having screwed up the Evil series, but the Dyaus and Birdhumans worked fine (more or less).

The New UN Government attempted to create living weapons of its own not long after the First Space War, but it didn't go so well due to the experimental giant insectoid bioweapons proving to be uncontrollable. The Dancing Skulls were dispatched to destroy the prototypes and the base that produced them in 2022. The military seems to have given up on that technology, though in the manga Macross Dynamite 7: Mylene Beat the New UN Forces in the 7th New Macross fleet attempted to clone an Evil series (for reasons?) and in Macross 7 Trash an unscrupulous New UN Forces Colonel attached to the same fleet experimented with re-weaponizing the Zentradi as slave soldiers through the technological manipulation of their emotions, but was foiled by Max and a pro athlete he clandestinely hired.
Wait? I don't remember there are any colony-made VF among those "missing" ones you mentioned in a previous post?

Also, what are some other examples of horrific experiments/projects being done to the Zentrandi (beside Macross 7 Trash and what happened in Delta)? How impervious are they to poison and disease?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:40 am

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:55 am
Wait? I don't remember there are any colony-made VF among those "missing" ones you mentioned in a previous post?
Not VFs developed by emigrant governments, but rather the 2nd Generation VF models that were developed with an eye towards providing newly-settled emigrant planets with designs that were easy and inexpensive to mass produce even with the limited infrastructure available. The VF-5, VF-6, VF-7, and VF-9 all belong to this category, but thus far only the VF-9 has actually appeared while the other three have only been mentioned in passing.

(Of those three, only one has any known/stated connection to a real world spec... the VF-5 being loosely modeled on both the F-5 Tiger and F2Y Sea Dart. It's unclear if there's any connection between the VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie and the production VF-7.)


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:55 am
Also, what are some other examples of horrific experiments/projects being done to the Zentrandi (beside Macross 7 Trash and what happened in Delta)? How impervious are they to poison and disease?
Barring the Mardook's use of invasive cybernetic surgery and brainwashing to turn their Zentradi into obedient troops who could be controlled using songs like a battle drug, I can't recall any other examples.

Macross 7 Trash's Colonel Abraham de Vasselon conspired to use the Mind System - a developmental offshoot from the Sound Energy System created for Sound Force - to convert the Zentradi into super-soldiers.

The Zentradi weren't subjected to any horrific experiments in Delta... they were just every bit as susceptible to Var syndrome as everyone else, possibly moreso given that many of them were New UN Spacy Marine Corps troops who had been living off the tainted foodstuffs sold by Windermere IV through intermediaries.

The only time Zentradi resistance to things like disease came up it was played entirely for laughs... in one of the Macross 7 extras "Which One Do You Love?", Milia is feeling sick and (unreasonably for a woman who's raised eight kids) jumps straight to the conclusion that she's dying. She proceeds to get involved in all manner of weird hijinks as she tries to resolve her unfinished business before the death she believes is imminent. It turns out she was massively overreacting to having a mild cold, thanks to having diagnosed herself using a computerized blood test. (Basically, Macross 7 predicted the existence of WebMD. :roll: )
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:40 am
ot VFs developed by emigrant governments, but rather the 2nd Generation VF models that were developed with an eye towards providing newly-settled emigrant planets with designs that were easy and inexpensive to mass produce even with the limited infrastructure available. The VF-5, VF-6, VF-7, and VF-9 all belong to this category, but thus far only the VF-9 has actually appeared while the other three have only been mentioned in passing.

(Of those three, only one has any known/stated connection to a real world spec... the VF-5 being loosely modeled on both the F-5 Tiger and F2Y Sea Dart. It's unclear if there's any connection between the VF-X-7 Ghost Valkyrie and the production VF-7.)

Barring the Mardook's use of invasive cybernetic surgery and brainwashing to turn their Zentradi into obedient troops who could be controlled using songs like a battle drug, I can't recall any other examples.

Macross 7 Trash's Colonel Abraham de Vasselon conspired to use the Mind System - a developmental offshoot from the Sound Energy System created for Sound Force - to convert the Zentradi into super-soldiers.

The Zentradi weren't subjected to any horrific experiments in Delta... they were just every bit as susceptible to Var syndrome as everyone else, possibly moreso given that many of them were New UN Spacy Marine Corps troops who had been living off the tainted foodstuffs sold by Windermere IV through intermediaries.

The only time Zentradi resistance to things like disease came up it was played entirely for laughs... in one of the Macross 7 extras "Which One Do You Love?", Milia is feeling sick and (unreasonably for a woman who's raised eight kids) jumps straight to the conclusion that she's dying. She proceeds to get involved in all manner of weird hijinks as she tries to resolve her unfinished business before the death she believes is imminent. It turns out she was massively overreacting to having a mild cold, thanks to having diagnosed herself using a computerized blood test. (Basically, Macross 7 predicted the existence of WebMD. :roll: )
A Sea Dart VF? That admittedly sounds interesting.

Also, the Windermereans must have had tested the apples on experimental subjects first, right?

That bring me to the second question: Are there many Meltrandi in NUNS (not SMS) by the time of Frontier? I don't remember seeing any of them.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:54 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 pm
A Sea Dart VF? That admittedly sounds interesting.
It'd be even more interesting than the actual F2Y Sea Dart, since VFs can operate underwater too. The VF-1's good down to 100m, so the VF-5 was probably capable of similar feats.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 pm
Also, the Windermereans must have had tested the apples on experimental subjects first, right?
My guess would be they probably noticed the connection by accident when they had a large population of human and Zentradi civilians living on the planet.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:37 pm
That bring me to the second question: Are there many Meltrandi in NUNS (not SMS) by the time of Frontier? I don't remember seeing any of them.
"Meltrandi" is basically just "female Zentradi", being a distinct faction was a DYRL-ism.

There are plenty of part-Zentradi women around in the Macross setting, including in the military, but the ones who are in the actual military don't get much attention in later Macross stories because the focus had shifted to the PMCs and most NUNS characters aren't even named. Unlike the male Zentradi from the NUNS Marine Corps, they seem to be more content to blend in with the rank-and-file human and Zolan troops. There are loads and loads of civilian female Zentradi characters though, including many who collaborate with the NUNS like the Milky Dolls (an all-Zentradi idol group) and Chelsea Scarlett (a Zentradi idol turned fighter pilot, who was one of the YF-25's test pilots).

The only prominent one in the NUNS itself in Frontier's media that I can recall is Cpt. Eliera Jifon, a character who appears in one of the manga adaptations and the novelization of the TV series. She's a Macross Frontier NUNS VF-171 pilot who is basically a mauveshirt, she flies a regular VF-171 and was part of the unit sent to intercept the Vajra during their first attack on the fleet. She's a minor supporting character, and does survive the series. There was Angers 672 in Macross the Ride, who was the first NUNS test pilot of the YF-25-1, though by the time of the actual story she was already retired (and had joined the anti-government group Fasces).

There was also Moaramia Jifon Jenius, the adopted daughter of Max and Milia in Macross M3, who is one of the few pilots known to fly the Variable Glaug.

Mylene Jenius and Veffidas Feaze might both technically count, though they were NUNS irregulars, rather than commissioned officers.

There were probably quite a few in the Macross-5 fleet, given that it was an all-Zentradi emigrant fleet.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 am

Wait, there is an idol group in Macross before Walkure? And there is an all-Zentradi fleet? Interesting. Can you please tell more about them?

Also, should the Feios Valkyrie be called a Valkyrie? It doens't even have a GERWALK mode. And why were its armaments so lacking?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:38 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 am
Wait, there is an idol group in Macross before Walkure?
Several... the Jamming Birds and their spinoff group the Jamming Angels both appeared in Macross 7. The leader of the Jamming Birds, Bobby, was even voiced by Hikaru voice actor Arihiro Hase.

The Jamming Birds were an idol group assembled during Macross 7 at the behest of NUNS Colonel Burton, who'd gotten sick of trying to get cooperation from Basara and decided he'd just build his own damn Sound Force. They held auditions in the fleet and assembled a six member (3 men, 3 women) idol group who sortied in custom VF-11D's which were equipped with Sound Boosters. Their repertoire was mostly borrowed from the Macross II soundtrack, like a vast majority of the music in the series that wasn't by Fire Bomber. (It's still rather odd that Macross 7 made the Macross II out to be the galaxy's chart-topping music c.2045.)

The three girls in the Jamming Birds later split off to form the Jamming Angels, who were briefly joined by Mylene in Macross Dynamite 7: Mylene Beat as Mylene Jenius and the Jamming Angels.

Macross Digital Mission VF-X's story revolved around Zentradi terrorists kidnapping the all-Zentradi girl group "Milky Dolls", who had been booked to play a major anniversary ceremony. The player character is part of the rescue unit from the NUNS Special Forces sent to recover the Milky Dolls and put down the Zentradi terrorist group.

Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E tells the story of the first Xaos Tactical Sound Unit, an all-girl idol rock band on Pipure who, in cooperation with Echo Platoon, were responsible for testing the use of fold songs to suppress outbreaks of Var syndrome in the local megafauna. The equipment used by the Tactical Sound Units is revealed to have been the creation of none other than Dr. Elma Hoyly, the young girl from Macross Dynamite 7, who grew up to be a student of Dr. Lawrence who created the space-time resonance speakers used in the OVA to communicate with the galatic whales. Tactical Sound Unit "Thrones" defeats an Epsilon Foundation-led conspiracy to weaponize fold songs and take over the planet by turning the local megafauna (as well as a captured Vajra) into biological weapons. (Elma, in a nod to her being The Biggest Fangirl of Basara, sorties herself in a replica of Basara's Fire Valkyrie called the Wind Valkyrie, where the Thrones operate from custom VF-171s equipped with fold amp radome-stages for the band to perform from.)

In production terms, Walkure's the fourth Macross idol group. In chronological terms, the fifth prominent one.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 am
And there is an all-Zentradi fleet? Interesting. Can you please tell more about them?
That's Macross-5, who appear in Macross 7.

We know relatively little about them, save for the fact that they were nearby to the Macross-7 fleet around midway in the series. They were an all-Zentradi emigrant fleet that discovered an inhabitable planet they dubbed "Lux" (Latin for "light") and settled there, only to come under attack by the Protodeviln. The fleet's ships were destroyed, its civilians were made into subjects for Gepernich's spiritia farm experiment, and its garrison force was brainwashed into reinforcements for the Varauta Army. Lux was later destroyed by one of the Protodeviln committing suicide. They were rescued at the end of the series by the Macross-7 fleet defeating Gepernich by evolving him into a lifeform that could generate his own spirita.

The fleet had Zentradi-styled versions of the Northampton and Battle-class ships, at least three City-class habitat modules, and appears to have used VF-11s as its main fighter.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:48 am
Also, should the Feios Valkyrie be called a Valkyrie? It doens't even have a GERWALK mode. And why were its armaments so lacking?
Even if it only has two modes (and it's not alone in that), it's still a Variable Fighter... and it's based on stolen technology from the New UN Forces' VFs. Specifically, it's a hybrid of tech from the VF-11 and Zentradi battle suits that achieved performance comparable to a high-end 4th Generation main VF.

Its armaments are heavily internalized, as it's meant to be a highly stealthy super-high performance dogfighter... more or less the VF equivalent of a Queadluun-Rau. It might not look like much, but it sorely tested the skills of some of the New UN Spacy Special Forces' top pilots.
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