General Fan Fiction Discussion

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CHASER
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

I knew I should have been riding your tail harder on updates. Just because I don't post here much doesn't mean I'm gone, it just means I don't really have anything to post about. Besides, all of our correspondence was through E-mail off the board to begin with.
Antares
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Oh hey! True enough! I just hadn't seen anything in your art-board either so I just assumed a little too much a little too quickly. Glad to see you're not gone. I've dropped you an email. :)

After this small diversion, back to actual discussion on fanfiction. Move along, nothing more to see here. :P
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Mr. Hanekoma
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

As unedited rubbish myself, I resent that! =P
Well, sorry if you're offended, but I firmly believe in Sturgeon's Law. You write good rubbish though. :D
I know Fanfiction.net has a beta reader service where they can hook up willing readers with needy writers, but I've never used it, so I can't attest to its quality. At any rate, I agree with the above.
Fanfiction.net's beta reader service is horrendous. You're lucky if you are paired with someone who is even active, let alone knows what they're talking about. It's just best not to risk it. Occasionally you can find someone decent, but most of the time the beta you're paired with is just trying to promote their own story.

As everyone seems to prefer things the way they are now, I guess I have the answer to my question. I didn't think it would be too popular, but I felt like it was a question worth asking.
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ShadowCell
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Mr. Hanekoma wrote:Fanfiction.net's beta reader service is horrendous. You're lucky if you are paired with someone who is even active, let alone knows what they're talking about. It's just best not to risk it. Occasionally you can find someone decent, but most of the time the beta you're paired with is just trying to promote their own story.
Sounds like the rest of Fanfiction.net, actually...

There's nothing stopping you from asking for a beta reader, or someone else offering to be a beta reader, so long as you don't go PMing people out of the blue about it or something.
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Mr. Hanekoma
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

While we're on the subject of unedited rubbish, when are you planning on updating Twilight, Shadowcell?
They're high on the watchtowers
Keeping the peace, whatever that means
'Cause you see the world through,
Crosshairs and T.V.s don't you?
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ShadowCell
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Soon, but real life is kicking my ass and this isn't really the place for it anyway. >>
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Mr. Hanekoma
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

I know exactly what that's like. Just take your time and get things sorted out, then worry about something as trivial as fanfiction.
They're high on the watchtowers
Keeping the peace, whatever that means
'Cause you see the world through,
Crosshairs and T.V.s don't you?
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Big B
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Yeah, real life can be a kicker, but then it's just more time for ideas to potentially stew.

I think letting ideas sit around for awhile allows you to think on them and how they will play into the story or be tossed out. Once I do have a good idea, then I'll write it down, even if the said element isn't entirely hammered out.

As far as beta readers are concerned, before you do that, spell checking is a lovely thing. If they're well-versed in English, then it's worthwhile, but if they lack this, then you're really no better off. The blind leading the blind is not a good way to get a proper story.

As a side note, I see a lot of people posting their premise but not following through.
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Deathzealot
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Hello all!

Figured I ask this in here for I did not want to start another thread, of which i don't think it is allowed and could not find a better place. Anyways I am looking for Chapter 29 of Warriors of Shadows by Zinegata. I know that it is completed but it is not on the site with the other chapters. Thank you in advance.
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mcred23
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

I'm not sure if you can find it easily. IIRC, it was posted on GundamWatch years ago (Pre-GOUF?), but I haven't seen it anywhere else. However, it probably isn't worth looking up, as it wasn't the end of the fic or anything, and Zinegata started rewriting Warriors In The Shadows sometime later. He posted the first chapter (Or two?) on a later version of GundamWatch, but I don't think he finished that either...
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Black Knight
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Check your PM box, Zeally. Dated 23 August 2003.

Personal archives are your friend....
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Deathzealot
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Thanks BK. I also responded. To bad it has not been competed yet, I would love to see what would happen when the two pairs of ships meet up. /evil laugh/
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Seraphic
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

(Ah....just as a side thing, there was an episode earlier where someone...I think santadi tried to use the word "species" to describe one of his creations.... I just wanted to say that he actually used the word properly. Sure the word has specific meaning, but that's only in biology. It has more general meaning outside of that, and scientists throw that word around all the time. "Species" more generally can describe a group of related things that are distinct from one another somehow. Like electrons of different spin or whatever. You'd be surprised how often physicists use the word. It's nice to be able to hang around science folks.) :P

I guess something about my writing has had me pondering for quite a while. As might be obvious, I'm not a person that thinks in the long term, and I likely have trouble creating a cohesive narrative from start to finish, with all the appropriate developments. For the life of me, I just can't create intricate plots and interweaving threads and twists. I just wanted to ask, as a reader, what sort of expectations do you generally have of a story in the long term? If the individual episodes are written well, is that enough?

How important is the "plot twist"? I've run into several writers who have a twist as the entire reason for being in their stories. It just sort of feels like a writing gimmick if it's not supported by other things. For me, I tend to just write more direct narratives which I hope have a natural progression rather than "suprise events" happening that people have to deal with. I suppose I have things that some may consider "twists" but as the writer who is already aware of said events, they just seem like natural progression instead of twists to me.

Is a direct narrative fine enough, if the progression is strong and profound? I think I just don't write dark and twisty stories because I personally get annoyed at those things often. =p
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Areku
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Personally, I'd say that a narrative should work towards some sort of long-term goal, but by no means does it have to be some complicated plot twist. Depending on the nature and presentation of the story, an unexpected twist can help to liven things up by presenting the reader with the fact that they don't already know what's going to happen, which can help to refresh their intrigue with the story. But that depends on the nature of the narrative itself, and I'd say that by and large, such a twist isn't strictly necessary, and can often be detrimental if it's shoehorned in just for the sake of throwing the reader through a loop. It's... kinda like a multiplier; it's not required, but using it well and at the right time can significantly improve the story, while sloppily cramming it in just 'cause can hurt the narrative.

But back to the long term direction, there should normally be some sort of climax towards the end. I hesitate to use the word "should", because literature isn't a science; there's no formula for making a good story. It all depends on the individual narrative, including it's presentation and execution, and there's no universal law that dictates how it should flow. However, I find that I most enjoy narratives that come to a climax. The events leading to that climax don't need to be complicated, although some dynamic developments can help immensely. Again, this doesn't need to be a deliberate twist.

I guess a climax serves to help the reader to mentally mark the end of the story with especially memorable moments. Is that something the writer would like to impart on the reader? If so, a climactic ending is probably something they should strive towards. If I had to cite one general human feeling regarding climaxes, it would be determination; a good climax will usually make itself apparent by ... ugh, arbitrary quantification ... 50% - 75% of the way through, and presenting the reader with a distinct goal (even if it's just a logically-deducible impression of a distinct end-game) can help the reader to focus their attention towards reaching the story's conclusion, and that tends to increase their enjoyment by causing them to invest themselves in the story.

But even a climax isn't strictly necessary. If the story is consistently entertaining, why does it need to change in the final stages? If the narrative's goal is to be pleasant and enjoyable throughout, then it doesn't need to become something different. But it does seem to me that a well-orchestrated climax is almost invariably beneficial.

Personally, I find that myself, and a lot of other writers I've talked to, start with a beginning and an end, then develop everything in between accordingly. Usually we've already come up with enough significant events in between to justify trying to write a story in the first place, but the real "meat" between the beginning and end comes only after the "sandwich buns" have been thoroughly explored. Sometimes the end will be changed as a result of adding meat, but we start with a distinct and vivid end in mind and systematically work our way through the whole thing towards a similar ending. For example, it's much easier to competently develop a character when you know what they're like at the start and where you're final intentions for them lie.

In my case, I've literally spent somewhere between 4-6 years (it's getting hard to remember exactly when it all began) planning out events for my story (which, as some will remember, is projected to equate to 13 novels), and only started to make headway with writing it down just last year. This approach probably will not work for everyone, but I feel like I have a firm, concise plan on where I'm going with with the narrative, and it seems pretty consistent to me as a result.

I think I may have run a little abreast of the topic, but at the end of the day, I'd say that a consistent, reasonably progressed plot is the key to successful writing. How that's achieved ultimately depends on the nature of the narrative and the strengths of the individual writer.
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Black Knight
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

As Areku touched upon, just about everything in writing (if not life) is "situational dependent".

For plot twists, they make sense in some contexts, and not in others. Twist the plot too much, and you'll annoy the audience enough they'll stop caring. This is particularly rife in American TV shows, which often times start promising one thing, become successful, plot twist in order to extend the life of the shows, and then end up failing because what they offered the viewers suddenly changed. (Yes, I'm looking at you, Battlestar Galactica.)

For myself, I like the occasional moderate plot twist. When I have the urge to write fanfics, I try to write conditions as lifelike as possible, and life has many plot twists. Are you today exactly where you thought you'd be a year ago? Two years ago? Five years ago? Not everyone will answer "yes" to those questions, so from a realism angle, its okay to have some plot twists.

One problem with fanfics, however, is that unless the author is splitting off into a new alternate universe, the broad strokes of the plot should already be known. I like fanfics that are able to almost seemlessly fit into the established universes, which means I typically have relatively modest goals for my characters. If I write someone whose mission is to assassinate Gihren Zabi in October of '79, it should be pretty obvious to readers that he's going to fail. But if I write about EFSF patrol forces around Konpei Island around November 10-11th '83, it's a bit more open-ended as to what is going to happen in the end, though much of the middle will be guessed.

Now, I'm fine with modest goals. I don't feel the need to write characters who are able to change the entire face of the universe in which they exist. Not everyone feels that way, and that's fine. So for people who do want characters able to change the face of the established universe, plot twists can be a lot more sweeping than in more modest stories. Maybe someone wants to write a story about a EFSF admiral in the 0130s who is trying to keep the EFSF strong, and the plot twist comes when he realizes he can't do it, and instead convinces his fleet and the Side its garrisoning to declare independence, and actually begin the fragmentation of the Federation the character originally wanted to avoid. I think that'd be a pretty interesting plot twist.

As you can see, however, different plot twists require different situations in order to retain plausibility.

Climaxes often work in a similar fashion. In a story set in the Gryps War, the climax ought to be obvious -- the events surrounding the AEUG capture of Gryps 2 is the climax of Zeta, so in a fanfic set in the Zeta timeline, it's also the most obvious setting for the climax of the story. Which doesn't mean the climax couldn't be during the AEUG Jaburo Drop, Operation Apollo, or some time else. I can think of interesting stories which could use any of those as the climax.

In an original story (vice a fanfic within an established universe), the climax is up to the author to create, and to decide how much tension should be built. Again, this depends on the type of story one wishes to write, and what one desires to convey. "Real Life" rarely has TV or movie-style climaxes; but not a lot of people really want "real life" in their entertainment (they often get enough of it in their own "real life"), which is why the grand climax exists in literary styles.

So, I'm going to end with the same advice I started: both plot twists and climaxes are situationally dependent.
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Android raptor
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Okay, so I'm wanting to give NaNoWriMo a try to get back into things I want to do. I'm mostly going to try tackling the buttload of one-shot ideas I have floating around in my mind. However, some are a bit... silly, so I dunno.

You all think a UC one-shot inspired by the Black Rose arc in Revolutionary Girl Utena would be too silly to take seriously? One of main characters the idea revolves around is a newtype, so that *might* help suspend some disbelief.

Need to rewatch CCA for it, though. BTW, anyone know where and how long Mirai was on earth for around that time?
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Black Knight
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Mirai was seen in the Hong Kong area. Where she was driving (presumably in Mainland China in the vicinity of Hong Kong) after she couldn't get on the shuttle with Hathaway is anyone's guess.

But it seems she's been on Earth since she got out of the Federation Forces, and since she's also spotted IVO Hong Kong in Zeta, one might presume that the Noa family lives in that area. Or just that it's a natural gravitation point for refugees. YMMV.
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Deathzealot
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Hmmm i am also going to do a story for NaNoWriMo. Like AR's story mine shall be a Gundam story but I shall be leaning more towards SEED then UC or another Gundam Series. Since I am more comfortable writing about SEED then any other Gundam or even other anime series.

My story Mobile Suit Gundam SEED: Divergence will like the title suggests diverge from a certain point during the series and go on from there. I am not revealing where exactly I am going to diverge but it should prove interesting. I shall be posting it here on MechaTalk as well on Mediaminer and Fanfiction.Net. I shall also be posting in a few days some background info (i.e Character Lists, New Ships, New Mobile Suits etc). Anyways I hope others shall be joining up to write a Gundam based (or another Mecha Anime) NaNoWriMo story. For I would love to read them!
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Android raptor
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

Hmm, any possibility she's ever been at/near Lhasa for an extended period of time? 'Cause if she has, that's pretty much ideal for what I want to do.

Also, some of the one-shot ideas I want to tackle are a bit... slashy, so I'm probably not going to post them here. Granted only one is NC-17, but still, I know that might cause some drama *hides*
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Antares
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Re: General Fan Fiction Discussion

If there is more to it than slash (i.e. a plot), then use your discretion. ;) If it's just slash, I've seen more than my share, thank you. :D
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*Almost everyone I've killed uttered similar last words.
-Then I am glad once again that you are on my side.
*They've often said that too.
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