The Macross Valkyrie Thread

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:35 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:41 pm
So... Macross Chronicle is the equivalent of MSV and a background book put together, am I right?
Are MSV books canon? (Not being sarcastic, I really don't know!)

Like the Gundam Perfect File, it's an attempt to make a comprehensive official artbook which covers EVERYTHING by condensing the material from previous official artbooks for individual shows and games and, occasionally, adding new information, insights, and trivia that weren't in those older books. One background book to rule them all, as it were.

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:41 pm
A few more things I have questions for after reading through that book:

1. How big is the X-9 really? I can't find the numbers, but I always have this impression that the QF-4000 is both smaller and less-armed than the X-9? If so, then any explaination why?
The Macross Chronicle Mechanic Sheet's size comparison seems to be a bit out in left field on this... it shows the AIF-X-9 at almost 15m long, which may have been an artist defaulting due to the lack of any specs that explicitly give its size. The text on its sheet, and others, suggests that it's very close in size to the mass production models derived from it (~9.85m).

The AIF-7S/QF-4000 Ghost is certainly less well-armed than the AIF-X-9 prototype it was derived from. It's an economized mass production model that you could say is the fallout of the Sharon Apple incident giving the New UN Forces misgivings about a fully autonomous fighter that exceeded the performance of manned fighters. The AIF-7 series has internal missile bays, but swaps the five laser cannons the AIF-X-9 had for a pair of particle beam machine guns. The micro-missile launchers are the same basic unit, but as with the economized VF-11C the number of launch ports on the launcher were halved. The biggest cut for the AIF-7 production model was the Sharon Apple-type fully autonomous AI was discarded as a dangerously unstable design choice and replaced with a more stable procedural AI system, sacrificing its full autonomy and the truly unpredictable combat behavior. The result was an unmanned fighter that cost a third of the flyaway cost of a VF-171-II Nightmare Plus and could operate in combat with no danger to human life. As such, it was an enormously popular fighter that arguably shared the "next main fighter" designation with the VF-171, some colony fleets even going so far as to scrap manned air forces in favor of the drones.

Now, the AIF-9 production series is a horse of a different color. The AIF-9B Ghost retained the armaments, equipment, and performance of the much-feared AIF-X-9 Ghost prototype. It was produced in very limited volumes and only deployed by the Earth New UN Forces - who are the leaders in military technology - as a defense measure for Macross City and as unmanned fighters for the Macross-13 flagship of the Earth defense fleet. Macross Galaxy made their own version of the AIF-9, designated AIF-9V, which is MASSIVELY upgunned from both the AIF-7 that was its starting point and the AIF-X-9 prototype. It swaps the five laser cannons for eight particle beam guns, switches back to four micro-missile launchers and two modular bays, and adds a heavy quantum reaction beam cannon modeled on the VF-27's gunpod. It also retains the illegal full-autonomous AI air combat software the AIF-X-9 used, with some decidedly draconian additions to the programmed behavior including kamikaze tactics.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:41 pm
2. Is there any notable disadvantage to the VF-5000 Super Booster to mount the ramjet booster at where it is? I don't know much about aerodynamic, but that can't look to be a good place to do so. How do they keep the balance to the VF? And would the hot air affect the VF's surface strength?
None specifically mentioned, no. Thrust vectoring on the two main engines and the nozzle of the booster pack help mitigate the change in center of gravity and thrust axis.

The VF-5000, like all its predecessors, is designed to withstand repeated atmospheric reentries without damage... some pseudocanon technical materials suggest the airframe skin is rated at ~3,200 degrees C, about twice what the TPS of a US space shuttle is good for. More official materials have put the strength of the hypercarbon composite used at around 100x the strength of a comparable thickness of RHA steel. After all, these fighters are already built for enduring high engine heat, given that their power source is a compact thermonuclear reactor inside each engine, and the exhaust is a mixture of air blast-heated by the fusion reactor and small amounts of plasma bled off the reaction.

The surface also isn't directly exposed to the jet wash of the ramjet either, in theory... Macross Zero and Plus both indicated that practically all VFs have ablative armor coatings to protect them from energy weapons strikes as well, though Macross Frontier was the first to put an actual number on the protection value of the coatings.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by hitokirigarou » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:54 pm

Looking at the lineart of the AIF-7S, I noticed 6 ports on the side bulges (3 on each side) just above the 25mm guns. On the AIF-9V, these are the 20mm guns.

Did the staff forget those weapons or are they something else, like verniers?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:47 pm

hitokirigarou wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:54 pm
Looking at the lineart of the AIF-7S, I noticed 6 ports on the side bulges (3 on each side) just above the 25mm guns. On the AIF-9V, these are the 20mm guns.

Did the staff forget those weapons or are they something else, like verniers?
On models with reduced capability or that lack optional hardware, it's fairly common design practice to have the same fittings as the model with it to minimize manufacturing changes and either fit a protective cover in place of the missing hardware or at least seal the unused ports by welding them closed or bolting a cap to its opening. That way, in the event that some authority decides to (re-)install the missing hardware, significant rework won't be necessary and the same part can be used to manufacture multiple versions of the unit.

In all likelihood, there are other variants of the AIF-7/QF-4000 which DO still have those six beam machine guns fitted and the exterior fairing is common to both.

For instance, the VF-19A2 Excaliburs used by the New UN Spacy's Angel Birds flight demonstration team are a disarmed version of the VF-19A... but instead of manufacturing them with a custom wing glove that lacks the gun port, the gun system simply wasn't installed and the gun port was capped to prevent any disruption of its aerodynamics. You'll also see this kind of design practice VERY commonly in the auto industry, where cluster designs include buttons for the full array of feature content, and buttons for features not present on a given vehicle will be replaced by a plain, immobile plastic piece that has the same shape as the buttons but lacks moving parts or wiring.

EDIT: Another good example from Macross is the YF-29. Because it shares structural components with Shinsei/LAI's VF-25, the YF-29 has the intake-mounted gun fittings the VF-25 uses for a 25mm beam machine gun or 25mm solid-ammo machine gun, but no gun is actually fitted there.

EDIT2: There is a fairly good chance that the animators working on the CG model decided to exploit that bit of Truth in Television to avoid having to radically redraw the Ghost's CG model between the AIF-7/QF-4000 and AIF-9.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:28 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:47 pm
...For instance, the VF-19A2 Excaliburs used by the New UN Spacy's Angel Birds flight demonstration team are a disarmed version of the VF-19A... but instead of manufacturing them with a custom wing glove that lacks the gun port, the gun system simply wasn't installed and the gun port was capped to prevent any disruption of its aerodynamics. You'll also see this kind of design practice VERY commonly in the auto industry, where cluster designs include buttons for the full array of feature content, and buttons for features not present on a given vehicle will be replaced by a plain, immobile plastic piece that has the same shape as the buttons but lacks moving parts or wiring.

EDIT: Another good example from Macross is the YF-29. Because it shares structural components with Shinsei/LAI's VF-25, the YF-29 has the intake-mounted gun fittings the VF-25 uses for a 25mm beam machine gun or 25mm solid-ammo machine gun, but no gun is actually fitted there.

EDIT2: There is a fairly good chance that the animators working on the CG model decided to exploit that bit of Truth in Television to avoid having to radically redraw the Ghost's CG model between the AIF-7/QF-4000 and AIF-9.
Great to know! It's for these tiny details that draw me to Macross.

Say, were the Macross-class SFDN ships mass produced before or after the New Macross Battle-class appeared (by the time of Macross 7)? Were the former cheaper and easier to build than the later because of smaller size and lower specs? And would the Macross Quarter considered something in between the two bigger Macross-class?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:14 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:28 am
Great to know! It's for these tiny details that draw me to Macross.
"Tiny details" are something Macross's creators are obsessed with.

False Prophet wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:28 am
Say, were the Macross-class SFDN ships mass produced before or after the New Macross Battle-class appeared (by the time of Macross 7)? Were the former cheaper and easier to build than the later because of smaller size and lower specs? And would the Macross Quarter considered something in between the two bigger Macross-class?
The Macross-class mass production type (SDFN) was a shipbuilding program that began shortly after the launch of the SDF-2 Megaroad-01 in 2012, and was a predecessor to the Battle-class ships that were introduced as a key component of the 3rd Generation emigrant ships (New Macross-class) that were introduced in 2030. They were an addition to the early emigrant fleets that were meant to function as the flagships of the pilot fleets scouting ahead of all the individual emigrant fleets. No two ships of the class were built to precisely the same standard, because they'd been rushed through production by diverting equipment and materials from Zentradi waships and other sources. Some fleet groups kept their Macross-class SDFNs after settling planets, while others seconded theirs back to New UN Spacy main fleet service.

Twelve were built, numbered SDFN-01 to SDFN-12. All twelve were apparently named after senior officers in the UN or New UN Forces. To date, three of the twelve have appeared in Macross and the names of three of the twelve have been made known, but one of the ones so named has never appeared and one of the ones appearing was not using its original name. SDFN-01 General Takashi Hayase has never appeared explicitly, but a popular and logical theory in the fandom is that this ship was the shooting stand-in for the SDF-1 Macross for filming of the in-universe movie Do You Remember Love?, a film noted to have been shot using real starships and mecha. SDFN-04, the General Bruno J. Global, was seconded to the 117th Research Fleet and subsequently was wrecked on Gallia IV when Vajra swarms disabled it. SDFN-08, the General Vrlitwhai Kridanik, was decommissioned after landing on Uroboros and, c.2060, has become the planetary capital of Vrlitwhai City in Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy. There is also an unnamed SDFN with an unusual antenna array seen on Pipure in Macross Delta Gaiden: Macross E. That old ship had also been decommissioned, and c.2062 the planetary government of Pipure sold it to the Epsilon Foundation. The Epsilon Foundation, in turn, gave the decommissioned SDFN to one of their business partners... Ivan Polyvanov of Zelgar Heavy Industries (alias Ivan Tsari). It was then used as a platform for Epsilon and Zelgar's covert experiment in using fold songs to weaponize Var syndrome, and dubbed the Macross Extra by its new owner, but he was foiled almost immediately after moving openly to take over Pipure and the SDFN was safely disabled while Ivan himself was blown to pieces by one of his own men for attempting to surrender.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am

Is it just me, or there is an effort ever since the VF-1 to thinner the waist of successive Valkyries generations?

Also, I don't think I have seen any VF with railgun beside that VF-2 in Lovers Again.

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:25 am

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Is it just me, or there is an effort ever since the VF-1 to thinner the waist of successive Valkyries generations?
Proportionally... but that's more a function of VFs themselves getting substantially larger, resulting in a taller, longer-limbed battroid.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Also, I don't think I have seen any VF with railgun beside that VF-2 in Lovers Again.
The VFs in Macross II: Lovers Again (VF-2SS, VF-2JA, VA-1SS) were the first VFs to officially have railguns as weapons... but they were far from the last:
  • The VB-6 Konig Monster tops the charts with four 320mm railguns as its main bombardment weapons.
  • The VF-171 Nightmare Plus is shown in Macross Frontier to be capable of equipping the SSL-9B 55mm designated marksman gunpod, a hybrid railgun that uses chemical propellants to get the slug moving and electromagnetic rails to further accelerate it down the barrel. (Variable Fighter Master File designates this version VF-171AS)
  • The VF-25G Messiah is a designated marksman variant that also employs the SSL-9B described above as its standard gunpod. (The VF-25F is also briefly shown to use this gunpod in Frontier's final episode.)
  • The YF-25 Prophecy's Paladin Pack (SPS-25P/MF25) from Macross the Ride includes a weapon called the Blaze Lance (Ka-Bar/OTEC BL/VF-X1) which is a lance (like an old-timey knight might use) with a railgun built into its core for ranged use.
  • The Queadluun-Alma variable fighter deployed by FASCES in Macross the Ride has a railgun gunpod.
  • The VF-31A Kairos from Macross Delta has a pair of Ramington LM-27S 27mm railguns mounted on its forearms.
  • The VF-31 Custom Siegfried from Macross Delta has a pair of Ramington LM-25S 25mm railguns mounted on its forearms.
  • The Sv-262 Draken III from Macross Delta has a pair of LM-27C 27mm railguns mounted on its right arm.
Studio Artdink's Flight-Action RPG Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy lets any VF that isn't using a beam gunpod take the SSL-9B sniper railgun. (The beam gunpods swap beam grenade mode for what amounts to a beam sniper mode for the VF-27, YF-29, and YF-30.)
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:25 am
False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Is it just me, or there is an effort ever since the VF-1 to thinner the waist of successive Valkyries generations?
Proportionally... but that's more a function of VFs themselves getting substantially larger, resulting in a taller, longer-limbed battroid.
That reminded me of how the bulge at the center of the chest of Battroids (the cockpit) got more and more angular until the VF-19, and from there they began cutting off the cone (YF-29).

Say, I think I have seen some sketchs showing that in older models, the pilot seat rotated a bigger angle between VF and Battroids mode than in the newer ones. Am I seeing thing right?
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:25 am
False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:58 am
Also, I don't think I have seen any VF with railgun beside that VF-2 in Lovers Again.
The VFs in Macross II: Lovers Again (VF-2SS, VF-2JA, VA-1SS) were the first VFs to officially have railguns as weapons... but they were far from the last:
  • The VB-6 Konig Monster tops the charts with four 320mm railguns as its main bombardment weapons.
  • The VF-171 Nightmare Plus is shown in Macross Frontier to be capable of equipping the SSL-9B 55mm designated marksman gunpod, a hybrid railgun that uses chemical propellants to get the slug moving and electromagnetic rails to further accelerate it down the barrel. (Variable Fighter Master File designates this version VF-171AS)
  • The VF-25G Messiah is a designated marksman variant that also employs the SSL-9B described above as its standard gunpod. (The VF-25F is also briefly shown to use this gunpod in Frontier's final episode.)
  • The YF-25 Prophecy's Paladin Pack (SPS-25P/MF25) from Macross the Ride includes a weapon called the Blaze Lance (Ka-Bar/OTEC BL/VF-X1) which is a lance (like an old-timey knight might use) with a railgun built into its core for ranged use.
  • The Queadluun-Alma variable fighter deployed by FASCES in Macross the Ride has a railgun gunpod.
  • The VF-31A Kairos from Macross Delta has a pair of Ramington LM-27S 27mm railguns mounted on its forearms.
  • The VF-31 Custom Siegfried from Macross Delta has a pair of Ramington LM-25S 25mm railguns mounted on its forearms.
  • The Sv-262 Draken III from Macross Delta has a pair of LM-27C 27mm railguns mounted on its right arm.
Studio Artdink's Flight-Action RPG Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy lets any VF that isn't using a beam gunpod take the SSL-9B sniper railgun. (The beam gunpods swap beam grenade mode for what amounts to a beam sniper mode for the VF-27, YF-29, and YF-30.)
Wait... The Draken III uses railguns and not normal autocannons? And the VF-171 and VF-25 too?

I really should read the instruction manuals more careful from now.

Say, speaking of manuals, is it "Remington" or "Ramington"?

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:52 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm
That reminded me of how the bulge at the center of the chest of Battroids (the cockpit) got more and more angular until the VF-19, and from there they began cutting off the cone (YF-29).
Actually, that's only the cockpit on a few models... the cockpit "wanders" a bit between designs.

On the VF-1, it was more or less dead center on the chest. On the VF-4, it was practically under the VF's head. On the VF-14 it was all the way on the back. On the VF-19 it dead center on the torso but on the back side of the VF behind the head. The VF-25 has it closer to center mass, but also on the back again. The VA-3 and VB-6 have it directly under the head.


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm
Say, I think I have seen some sketchs showing that in older models, the pilot seat rotated a bigger angle between VF and Battroids mode than in the newer ones. Am I seeing thing right?
That's another thing that varies between models, though in general terms it's not true.

On the VF-0, VF-1, VF-3000, VF-5000, VF-9, VF-11, and VF-22 the pilot's seat rotates 90 degrees backwards to remain upright in Battroid mode.

On the VF-4, VF-17, VF-171, YF-30, VF-31, VAB-2, VA-3, and VB-6 the pilot's seat remains essentially level.

On the VF-14, VF-19, YF-24, VF-25, VF-27, YF-29, and Sv-262 the pilot's seat rotates 90 degrees forwards.

On the Sv-51 and Sv-52, the pilot's seat rotates back about 45 degrees.



False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm
Wait... The Draken III uses railguns and not normal autocannons? And the VF-171 and VF-25 too?
Yes. The Sv-262's forearm guns (which end up above and behind the cockpit in fighter mode) are rapid-fire railguns, a variant of the same gun used on the rotating forearm/wing root mounts on the VF-31A. (VF-31 Siegfried customs use a less powerful, smaller caliber version of the weapon.)

The SSL-9B Dragunov 55mm designated marksman rifle is this weapon here:
http://www.macross2.net/m3/macrossf/vf- ... gunpod.jpg

It was first seen on Michael Blanc's VF-25G (the designated marksman variant), though the 9th episode of the Macross Frontier series shows via flashback that his older sister Jessica used the same model gunpod on her VF-171 in the role of her unit's designated marksman when she accidentally shot and killed her own commanding officer (and lover).


False Prophet wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:07 pm
Say, speaking of manuals, is it "Remington" or "Ramington"?
"Ramington" is how the katakana is written.

Like a lot of anime titles, Macross indulges fairly heavily in "Bland Name" companies to avoid getting into any legal trouble with real world corporations. So... instead of Rockwell, you got Stonewell. Bellcom instead of Bell Textron. Lockhee instead of Lockheed. Northrom instead of Northrop. General Titanic in place of General Dynamics. McNell Douglar instead of McDonnell Douglas. GN instead of GM. Centinental instead of Continental. Chrauler instead of Chrysler. Sikorvsky instead of Sikorsky. Mauler instead of Mauser. Bifors instead of Bofors. Ramington instead of Remington. Erlikon instead of Oerlikon Contraves. Kranss-Maffai instead of Krauss-Maffei. LVT instead of Ling-Temco-Vought. Viggers instead of Vickers. RR or sometimes just "Roice" instead of Rolls-Royce, PW instead of Pratt & Whitney, Mitsuhoshi ("Three Star") instead of Mitsubishi, Arguably "MacrossNalds" in place of McDonalds.

Very few of the companies in early Macross titles are truly fictional, most are thinly disguised real-world companies. OTEC is the principal fictional company, being a multinational research organization founded specifically to reverse-engineer alien technology. I haven't found an obvious equivalency for the Shinnakasu Corporation of Japan, they might be a nod to Nakajima or Shin-Meiwa.

Macross Zero was the only title to use the real names of companies, referencing Daimler, the Rubin Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering, Sukhoi, Israel Aircraft Industries, Dornier Flugzeugwerke, and Northrop Grumman. Even then, all the weapons manufacturers still used bland names.

From Macross Plus on, it's been principally bland name and fictional companies like Shinsei Industry (the merger of Stonewell, Bellcom, and Shinnakasu), General Galaxy (a merger of OTEC, Centinental, Viggers, and several other companies), Dian Cecht. Surya Aerospace, introduced in Macross Delta is kind of a standout in that one of its four partner companies is real... Feifeng Aerospace, Shinsei Industry, and Legodt & Angeloni are all ficitonal, but Bharat Electronics Limited is quite real, a state-owned defense company in India.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 am

Say, how would the post-YF-24 Valkyrie fares in ground supression fire and joint-operation with infantry? Could they replace the VA-3? And there is no way anyone would deploy the VB-6 for this role, right?

And speaking of canopy, why did the Nightmare Trainer used a different type of canopy from the standard Nightmare (for a two seater, I don't think they should had changed the frame of the canopy like that)? The same thing happened between the VF-171 and the VF-171EX (Did the EX Gear required a new canopy?)

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:50 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 am
Say, how would the post-YF-24 Valkyrie fares in ground supression fire and joint-operation with infantry?
It'd depend on the model and variant, I suppose.

Most variants of the VF-25 Messiah would likely perform quite admirably in close air support operations. The VF-25's design includes a large wing area and several concessions to low-speed low-altitude control including sophisticated boundary layer control by suction, vortex flow control, and blown control surfaces. Its gunpod can support a variety of different ammunition types, and with six wing and two body pylons (not counting its gunpod station) it can carry a large amount of guided or unguided ordnance.

The VF-27 Lucifer would probably fare rather poorly, being limited principally to strafing runs with its guns since it has little to no variable payload options and its weapons are predominantly fixed, short-ranged weapons for dogfighting.

The YF-29 Durandal would have the same problem as the VF-27, IMO, though it might fare slightly better in that it's got a LARGE amount of internally-stored micro-missiles in versatile launcher assemblies.

The YF-30 Chronos would probably fare decently, given that its modular ordnance container would allow it to fire micro-missiles and other ordnance straight down even in fighter mode, and its delta wing makes low speed low-altitude flight easy and stable. Various modular options for the container include bomb pallets and beam gun turrets.

The VF-31 has many of the same options as the YF-30, though it's noted as actually being designed partly to operate in a close air support role, so its FCS is probably better suited to it. It also has those forearm-mounted railguns in GERWALK mode. Otherwise, it has fewer pylons than the VF-25, but is otherwise much the same.

The Sv-262 is fairly ill-suited to it for the same reason the VF-27 is... it's a dogfighter, plain and simple.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 am
Could they replace the VA-3? And there is no way anyone would deploy the VB-6 for this role, right?
The VF-25 and VF-31 could, I'm sure... and that's not counting pseudocanon variants like the VF-25E, which was designed specifically for heavy weapons deployment.

I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to use a VB-6 for that, unless they were looking to discourage enemy formations from assembling by bombing them or shelling them from afar. The Konig Monster has a capacious bomb bay and can shoot with precision at ranges of over 100km, but it's probably not ideal for close air support.


False Prophet wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 am
And speaking of canopy, why did the Nightmare Trainer used a different type of canopy from the standard Nightmare (for a two seater, I don't think they should had changed the frame of the canopy like that)?
The cockpit block had to be lengthened to accommodate a second seat. The VF-17 Nightmare's cockpit is a fairly cramped one.

False Prophet wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 am
The same thing happened between the VF-171 and the VF-171EX (Did the EX Gear required a new canopy?)
The cockpit block had to be modified to accommodate EX-Gear and an upgraded avionics package full of hardware from the VF-25. This changed the angle of the nose slightly, making a bubble canopy with more naked eye visibility an attractive option. The stock model uses rearview monitors instead.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm

Speaking of Ex-Gear, did Xaos bought the VF-01EX as it was, or did they do custom work to a civilian VF-01?

And how long would you bet the VF-01 production line was kept running? I mean, Earth must had made a tons of VF-01 during the war with Zetrandi, but seeing how vast humankind had spread into space during that period, and yet you still see so many VF-01, I have the impression that Shinnakasu and Northrom continued the production line of the VF-01 even after the VF-4 Lightning III was accepted (they said "Mass production stopped in 2015", but of course NUNS and then other individuals/organizations would still need spare parts for the VF-01 for many years to come, right?)

(A bit of ranting here: How long must we wait until we can see the Star Mirage, Lightning, and Thunderbolt got animated again?)

I wonder if Shinsei still stack some VF-01 away by the time of Delta? It would make a good OVA or something...

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:36 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm
Speaking of Ex-Gear, did Xaos bought the VF-01EX as it was, or did they do custom work to a civilian VF-01?
You know, I don't recall if the specs in the Macross Delta Blu-ray liner notes listed it as a customized VF or a manufacturer stock one. I'll have to check when I get home. IIRC my original theory based on the specs was that it was a disposal sale VF-1X+ that Xaos retrofitted.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm
And how long would you bet the VF-01 production line was kept running? I mean, Earth must had made a tons of VF-01 during the war with Zetrandi, but seeing how vast humankind had spread into space during that period, and yet you still see so many VF-01, I have the impression that Shinnakasu and Northrom continued the production line of the VF-01 even after the VF-4 Lightning III was accepted (they said "Mass production stopped in 2015", but of course NUNS and then other individuals/organizations would still need spare parts for the VF-01 for many years to come, right?)
Stonewell, Bellcom, and their licensees ended mass production of the VF-1 Valkyrie for the military ended in 2015. Canon sources suggest at least 5,000 units were produced during that production run, with most being produced after the First Space War ended. The pseudo-canon Master File puts a precise number on it, at 5,459 units delivered in 17 production blocks. Master File also suggests that about 600 retired units would later be pulled out of storage and upgraded under a service life extension program (Slepnir program) to later Special Forces specifications like the canon VF-1X and pseudocanon VF-1P.

It's worth noting that this is ONLY mass production of the military's main fighter version. After the merger to form Shinsei Industry, there were some build-under-license arrangements where local manufacturers in emigrant fleets or on colonized planets could build low volumes of the VF-1 or the civilian market variants like the VF-1C and VT-1C. There's still a brisk business in replacement and repair parts for the VF-1, likely handled as build-under-license arrangements from local manufacturers rather than supplied by the Shinsei head office.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm
(A bit of ranting here: How long must we wait until we can see the Star Mirage, Lightning, and Thunderbolt got animated again?)
Probably quite a while... if we ever see them again.

By the time we saw them animated for the first time in Macross Dynamite 7 (2047), Shinei Industry's VF-5000 Star Mirage had already been phased out of service and retired in favor of the VF-11 Thunderbolt. Zola's VF-5000s are an export variant produced separately and to a modified spec for the Zola autonomous government's insistence on using non-lethal or reduced-lethality weapons. The MilSpec VF-5000s the New UN Forces had have probably either been decommissioned and placed in storage, sold off, or scrapped by the "present day" of 2067.

The VF-4 Lightning III, it's going to be basically the same story. There were some VF-4s still in service with the New UN Forces and the Special Forces the mid-to-late 2040s, but most had been retired, placed into long-term storage, or sold off. We did see a VF-4 in the light novel Macross the Ride, but that was a civilian-owned VF-4S that'd been sold off in a military disposal sale after being retired by the New UN Forces.

The VF-11 Thunderbolt, same story explicitly. They've been out of service for about 20 years around the "present day" of 2067. The VF-171 started phasing them out in 2048, and by 2058 fleet governments had already been selling off their disarmed VF-11s to civilian and corporate buyers. VF-11s had become very popular as civilian-operated craft for Vanquish League air racing in 2058, with the league even having an entire category of races where every racer is using a Thunderbolt. IIRC Mina Forte's VF-11C Custom was about the only VF-11 seen in combat service in beyond that point (c.2060), and that was a locally-built custom model provided by SMS Uroboros.


False Prophet wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm
I wonder if Shinsei still stack some VF-01 away by the time of Delta? It would make a good OVA or something...
We know Shinsei Industry was still supporting military use of the VF-1 into the 2050s, since the VF-1X++ was a thing, though even those have started to be sold off into civilian hands... both Hakuna Aoba in 2058 and Ranka Lee in 2059 had access to VF-1X++'s.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:00 am

How advanced is the SDF-1 Macross to the rest of the Protodevlin fleet during its time? Watching 7, I have a feeling it is not something the Protodevlin would sorely miss.

Also, why do I think Spiritia are something that exist in a realm of its own, and in the body of each Protoculture people their are two minds living simulatenously in our world and in the Spiritia's realm...

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:24 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:00 am
How advanced is the SDF-1 Macross to the rest of the Protodevlin fleet during its time? Watching 7, I have a feeling it is not something the Protodevlin would sorely miss.
The old Supervision Army medium-scale gunboat that crashed on Earth and was rebuilt into the SDF-1 Macross was an utterly typical Supervision Army warship with no special or unusual characteristics. The kind of warship the factory satellites were probably turning out by the tens of thousands when the Supervision Army was at the apex of its power. After the First Space War, the New UN Forces stumbled onto the wreck of a ship of that class while their fold system was recharging to cover the rest of the distance to the factory satellite they were going to seize. They left the derelict ship alone, because the Supervision Army had a nasty habit of boobytrapping its wrecked ships and using them as lures for ambushes.

One thing to note with respect to the forces the Protodeviln had on their side in Macross 7 is that, just as in their original campaign of galactic conquest 500,000 years ago they were using whatever they could find and take control of locally. The Protodeviln themselves were not designing new warships or mecha, the planet which their awakening occurred on was an arsenal world, and they made do with whatever weapons they could seize or build using their army of spirita-drained slaves. The hostile forces the 37th Large-Scale Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet's New UN Forces escort encountered were using equipment seized from the Varauta colony's New UN Forces, which were either used as-is or lightly modified. Even their huge flagship was originally a New UN Forces warship made to allow the Varauta 3198XE NUNS to "one-shot" Zentradi Army branch fleets.


False Prophet wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:00 am
Also, why do I think Spiritia are something that exist in a realm of its own, and in the body of each Protoculture people their are two minds living simulatenously in our world and in the Spiritia's realm...
The way it's described in Macross Chronicle and a few other sources, humanity and other sentient lifeforms have an intrinsic mental connection to higher dimensional spacetime in a manner not dissimilar to how all life has connections to the warp in WH40K. The mental energy that is spiritia can be mechanically measured, transferred, or even amplified. Some individuals who have particularly strong emotions and strong connections to that higher-dimensional plane can produce significant amounts of energy that can be weaponized against the denizens of that domain like the Protodeviln.

Anima spiritia are people who produce lots of spiritia and can control its polarity, enabling them to inflict harm on the Protodeviln.

(If you want to think about it this way, Sound Force are basically Sanctioned Psykers.)

That connection to higher-dimension spacetime is the root cause of several ailments that can occur while actually in that higher dimension during a fold jump. The two most common are a motion sickness-like ailment from being pitched into a universe where the flow of time is slightly different that affects some people, and an intoxication-like giddiness that can occur during particularly long fold jumps as a result of the physical and mental parts of an individual being on the same dimensional footing for too long. (Not harmful in the vast majority of cases, but the incipient giddiness apparently makes people a bit horny during long fold jumps.)
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by False Prophet » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:44 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:36 pm
False Prophet wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:09 pm
(A bit of ranting here: How long must we wait until we can see the Star Mirage, Lightning, and Thunderbolt got animated again?)
Probably quite a while... if we ever see them again.

By the time we saw them animated for the first time in Macross Dynamite 7 (2047), Shinei Industry's VF-5000 Star Mirage had already been phased out of service and retired in favor of the VF-11 Thunderbolt. Zola's VF-5000s are an export variant produced separately and to a modified spec for the Zola autonomous government's insistence on using non-lethal or reduced-lethality weapons. The MilSpec VF-5000s the New UN Forces had have probably either been decommissioned and placed in storage, sold off, or scrapped by the "present day" of 2067.

The VF-4 Lightning III, it's going to be basically the same story. There were some VF-4s still in service with the New UN Forces and the Special Forces the mid-to-late 2040s, but most had been retired, placed into long-term storage, or sold off. We did see a VF-4 in the light novel Macross the Ride, but that was a civilian-owned VF-4S that'd been sold off in a military disposal sale after being retired by the New UN Forces.

The VF-11 Thunderbolt, same story explicitly. They've been out of service for about 20 years around the "present day" of 2067. The VF-171 started phasing them out in 2048, and by 2058 fleet governments had already been selling off their disarmed VF-11s to civilian and corporate buyers. VF-11s had become very popular as civilian-operated craft for Vanquish League air racing in 2058, with the league even having an entire category of races where every racer is using a Thunderbolt. IIRC Mina Forte's VF-11C Custom was about the only VF-11 seen in combat service in beyond that point (c.2060), and that was a locally-built custom model provided by SMS Uroboros.
Well, we can hope, right? It takes me a long time before I recognize that VF in the Jenius' hangar was nothing else other than the VF-9. (It would had been nice had Hayate practiced on the VF-9 instead of the VF-1EX. That foward-swept wings...)

And where is the Vampire anyway, by the time of Frontier? I know how rare it is, but damn, I would kill to see it again. It and the Crusader (the Crusader is way cooler than the Lightning. I am not sure about the performance, though.)

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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:23 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:44 pm
Well, we can hope, right? It takes me a long time before I recognize that VF in the Jenius' hangar was nothing else other than the VF-9. (It would had been nice had Hayate practiced on the VF-9 instead of the VF-1EX. That foward-swept wings...)
Yeah, an animated VF-9 would be nice. Outside of Macross M3, the only time the VF-9 has ever had the chance to shine was as a civilian-owned racing VF in the hands of the Vanquish League Ultimate Class champ during the events of Macross the Ride. Nicolas Berthier, the undefeated ten time Ultimate Class grand champion, insists on using an old VF-9E Cutlass instead of a more modern fighter because he considers it more sporting.


False Prophet wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:44 pm
And where is the Vampire anyway, by the time of Frontier? I know how rare it is, but damn, I would kill to see it again. It and the Crusader (the Crusader is way cooler than the Lightning. I am not sure about the performance, though.)
The VF-14 Vampire was a 3rd Generation main fighter alongside the VF-11 Thunderbolt. By 2058, it would've long since been retired in favor of the VF-171 or an alternative 4th Generation main fighter.

FASCES, a remnant of the Earth supremacist group Latence from Macross VF-X2, does make use of some of the Varauta Army's remodeled mecha from Macross 7. Apparently they liberated some of the Fz-109, Az-109, and FBz-99 units that were captured when the New UN Forces ousted the Protodeviln and freed their enslaved colonists on Varauta 3198XE. The technological improvements the Protodeviln made to the VF-14s, VA-14s, and VAB-2s they captured gave them performance comparable to Generation 3.5 or Generation 4 VF like the VF-17 or VF-171 (respectively), so FASCES continues to use them into the late 2050s since their ability to procure new VFs is somewhat limited. Most were likely lost when the SMS Frontier branch office sunk the flagship of FASCES, the Babel, near the end of the events of Macross the Ride.

The VF-3000 Crusader is almost a never-was. Only a handful of them were ever produced, because efforts to jumbo-ize the VF-1 Valkyrie resulted in irreconcilable mechanical problems including a tendency for the hip joints to slip. The Dancing Skulls used a few on a trial basis, and promptly abandoned them. Stonewell and Bellcom abandoned the project in favor of focusing on the VF-4 Lightning III and development of a new fighter incorporating Zentradi overtechnology that would become the VF-5000 Star Mirage.
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Re: The Macross Valkyrie Thread

Post by Arbiter GUNDAM » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:07 am

Images of the Armored VF-31s are coming out and they please me greatly.
http://repotama.com/2018/02/99587/
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