The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Well, IBO wins already for getting this amount of talk about its closing! Not just rants and applause, lots of talk about story & character. Excellent! :)

Now for myself.... After my previous post on the certainity of doomed heroes wersus Fate and the Establishment, there were some genuine departures for the usual Big FInish of Gundam series. Things did not go as expected, but I have been saying that at periodic intervals for this series, so what else was new? the story though was good at showing that the never-fading rose would be its own monument. Tekkadan was not going to really win at the end in terms of a military victory, but from the perspectives of the characters themselves, as opposed to dramatic narrative, they were winners. The survivors left behind the status of "human trash" forever, which was highly satisfactory given what was show us in Season 1. Some became successful, some not, but they got a chance to truly live as the big extended family they had become.

Anyway, the knife in the back directed at Orga and Kudelia was an acceptable twist, since eager-beaver bandwagon types looking to benefit from a former ally's misfortune were inevitable in both pre-modern Japan & Europe. And consider the source, since that fat weasel had never been a True Believer, but was trying to advance himself all along. Cut a last-minute deal with Rustal Elion by playing Judas? No problemo! It was just proof that Tekkadan was down to their true friends, and had to get out of there. Not that the weasel got to benefit in the long run, anyway. If you are gonna win by underhand tricks, man, you have to learn to expect them, and never let your bodyguards get lazy! (Ex-Tekkadan tribute to the alleged assasination of Uesugi Kenshin highly appreciated! :D)

MIkazuki & Akihiro went down swinging like the doomed heroes of legend they were. If a Gundam hero has to die, let that final battle stand as the examplar. :cool: Rustal Elion was smart enough not to let these guys clamber over a pile of wrecked MS & walk away, he took 'em out hard....throughly justifying the tunnel escape. Big bang finish, gotta love it! Even then the last stand of Barbatos & Guzion turned out to be one of those fights that was going to be remembered in the talk of MS pilots, no matter what official story got put out.

Idiok didn't get to escape like Yazan Gable. I am 100% with that result! He was playing at being a desperate champion for a cause, and then he ran into some guys who were the real deal. No tears shed by anyone, and we move on.

Rustal Elion's actions were other than expected. It is unusual, in and out of mecha anime (and Gundam in particular) for a villain so smugly representing the Establishment to comprehend the reasons for defiance, let alone do something positive concerning said reason! :shock: But there it was, he got together with Kudelia-hime and made Tekkadan's struggle and sacrifice worth it all in the end. (Kudelia-hime is now my #1 Gundam princess in terms of matching professed ideals to earned results.) Real reforms? Consdieration of Martians & other Spacenoids as partners in interplanetary civilization? Defanging further popular revolt for at least a generation? I had to watch the episode again to confirm for myself I was watching a Gundam episode! So I have to give IBO some credit for leaving off the black hats & white hats and presenting the entire conflict as valid pseudo-history suitable for its time and place in its timeline,

Julieta started out this season as a likely throwaway Gundam heroine. (Been there done that, mourned the addition of another babe to the Dead Gundam GIrls Revue.) It was interesting in the final battle to get her reactions to the action and her final takeaway on the scenario. She turned into such an "Anti-Titans" character in her viewpoint! In the end her viewpoint was very interesting to me as a Gundam fan of long standing.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 pm

I'm very glad to read your post, Zeonista, especially the bit on Julietta. So many hated her and desired her dead, but I was always a fan and was glad to see her survive. She even develops at the end of the story to some extent, and I was pleased with that, if nothing else.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by BrentD15 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:15 pm

Amion wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 pm
I'm very glad to read your post, Zeonista, especially the bit on Julietta. So many hated her and desired her dead, but I was always a fan and was glad to see her survive. She even develops at the end of the story to some extent, and I was pleased with that, if nothing else.
Agreed.
Gundam needs less dead girls (IBO in particular).
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:53 pm

Amion wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:05 pm
I'm very glad to read your post, Zeonista, especially the bit on Julietta. So many hated her and desired her dead, but I was always a fan and was glad to see her survive. She even develops at the end of the story to some extent, and I was pleased with that, if nothing else.
I was expecting her to fit into some UC or AU box, but IBO was very much about "this is our own box" so to speak for many things. I was certain Julietta was cute Gundam roadkill like poor Lafter, but she survived & actually learned something about the motive and spirit of people who are gonna climb in a MS and fight to the death. Good or bad, she lived long enough to learn something from fighting the Turbines & Tekkadan. If she was going to be Rustal's Gal Friday, it was a sign of progress for Gjallarhorn. And she & Gali having the personal scene at the end was pretty cool.

BrentD15: After Tomino the various AU series got a little shyer about blowing away cute girls who didn't really deserve it. Even if SEED, AGE, & Buckshot all had attractive female characters who deserved their bloody finale to a certain extent. (No backsies sisters, you were on the wrong side, did the wrong thing, and that's all she wrote.) Despite the feels, the female characters who did snuff it in IBO died for specific reasons besides "Tragic War Hell Story!" which made it a little easier.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Cybaster » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:54 pm

Zeonista wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:53 pm
I was expecting her to fit into some UC or AU box, but IBO was very much about "this is our own box" so to speak for many things. I was certain Julietta was cute Gundam roadkill like poor Lafter, but she survived & actually learned something about the motive and spirit of people who are gonna climb in a MS and fight to the death. Good or bad, she lived long enough to learn something from fighting the Turbines & Tekkadan. If she was going to be Rustal's Gal Friday, it was a sign of progress for Gjallarhorn. And she & Gali having the personal scene at the end was pretty cool.
Pretty much this.

It's amazing how so many Gundam 'hero' factions up until this point ultimately end up failing by succeeding in their task (which basically amounts to blowing away the big bad as quickly as possible and expecting things to magically get better from that point on), while here you have Tekkadan and Kudelia, also trying to change things, and they end up succeeding in the end...exactly by failing miserably at blowing away the 'big bad'. Probably the reason in this vein why things actually got better on Mars, and Gjallarhorn was allowed to change for the better, was because Tekkadan and McGillis were never allowed to get that far and tear down too many things in the face of reality; Between them they managed to change just enough that the existing system was forced to gradually improve, but when McGillis tried to get too extreme with changing everything outright right the eff nao, reality quickly righted the problem and left essential infrastructure intact in the form of Rustal.

Amuro's diatribe to Char in CCA about revolutions and intellectuals really comes to mind here when considering why it was so imperative that Tekkadan had to be stopped, even if it completely turns the established Gundam formula on its head and takes a piss on its remains. Gjallarhorn had to be given time to change for the better, and like Char, McGillis was simply too impatient to wait for this to happen and jumped to destroy as much as he could. The aforementioned UC and AU boxes would have everything get torn down, and the heroes establish their own system which everyone just accepts because they have no choice, only to have the same 'what had worked' status quo set back in in response to Sequelitis, so I guess the director really didn't want there to be any further spinoffs or sequels in that sense... :P

Also, Brent: I will kill you for that icon now. :wink:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:51 pm

There is a reason why there haven't been any wars in the IBO world since the Calamity war.... that is a MASSIVE feat compared to other Gundam shows where war or some kind of major conflict is always occurring every couple of years. Gjarrhorn, despite the corruption its embedded in, actually does keep the peace, even though sometimes via ill means like the Dort Colony incident, although you can also chalk that up to Nobliss who orchestrates these things to occur for profit then sell them out to Gjarrhorn. A lot of conflicts can arise because of economic hardships, if you stablise areas in a better economic fashion, you can reduce conflicts to an extent, Makanai helped in that regard with dealing with the Dort Colonies and Mars during and after season 1.

Plus unlike most other Gundam shows, the protagonist's groups have to deal with the consequences of their actions, Celestrial being touched on this too in 00, but it seems to go a step further here in IBO. Tekkadan in the 1st season by disrupting Gjarrhorn's actions in the Dort Colonies and in Edmonton, threw off Gjarrhorn's power balance. As we've seen in the beginning of season 2, more factions are arming themselves with mobile suits and more trafficking of Human Debris. In a way, you can't blame Rustal for making a show of force by putting down Tekkadan, not only does it bring back Gjarrhorn's faith in the Earth Sphere, but it shows that if Tekkadan won, there would be a lot of chaos because the system that has been in place for centuries would be shattered.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by BrentD15 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:53 am

Cybaster wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:54 pm
Also, Brent: I will kill you for that icon now. :wink:
You'll have to catch me first! :mrgreen:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:39 pm

Cybastar: Now, I don't want to give Rustal Elion too much credit for building success from the downfall of McGillis & Tekkadan. I do give him credit for realizing Gjallarhorn as presented in the course of the show was at best obsolete and at worst prone to reflexive oppression in order to keep existing. Nice of Tekkadan & Fareed to cut away the dead wood for him and leave things open for a path of calculated reform, eh? :P But he & Kudelia-hime could sit down and negotiate in good faith, which was pretty good actually. IBO was ideological in its own way, but it was ideological in the old-fashioned way of "we want our due as fellow humans and citizens" instead of "we want to make the new world of tomorrow". One is a little easier to grant than the other, no?

As to sequels, not every Gundam series has to have one, or needs one, in order to endure as a success. *shakes fist at Gundam SEED Destiny* If Sunrise left the ending as is, it would be more than satisfactory to me. They don't need one, really! In order to have a sequel, we would need to mess up a perfectly good political & economic settlement that didn't screw anyone. Who really wants that? Or we advance it a generation or two to the next trouble spot and have to win the audience back. Better to say it's done and savor the prospect of a Gundam show that slugged it out to a true resolution.

yazi88: The big armageddon-style war had already happened, much like Gundam X, so there was not so much a lack of wars before our starting point, as the overall lack of military strength & purpose to use it. Of course, that changed in the initial arc of IBO Season 1, so it was time for the wheels of History to resume turning. The overall body count was quite modest by Gundam standards, so at the end of the story the impetus to screw the other guy over in diplomatic terms to justify the slaughter was absent. "How about we not do this again?" was the order of the day.

That still does not make Rustal Elion a force for Conservative Good and Tekkadan/Fareed the Radical Bad though, nor does it make McGillis Fareed the Savior of Humanity and Tekkadan his Righteous Martian Colonial Brigade. The two factions were just opposed to each other as part of an emergant struggle that put them on conflicting sides of a dilemma. Barbatos fulfilled its name and revealed wealth & wisdom to feuding princes, bringing them together! Being in the form of a Gundam though....mecha action was the means of revelation! In this respect IBO was very much a Gundam series in accepting both sides at their word in fighting for the right, and then letting battle decide who got to win.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:52 pm

Cybaster wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:54 pm
Zeonista wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:53 pm
I was expecting her to fit into some UC or AU box, but IBO was very much about "this is our own box" so to speak for many things. I was certain Julietta was cute Gundam roadkill like poor Lafter, but she survived & actually learned something about the motive and spirit of people who are gonna climb in a MS and fight to the death. Good or bad, she lived long enough to learn something from fighting the Turbines & Tekkadan. If she was going to be Rustal's Gal Friday, it was a sign of progress for Gjallarhorn. And she & Gali having the personal scene at the end was pretty cool.
Amuro's diatribe to Char in CCA about revolutions and intellectuals really comes to mind here when considering why it was so imperative that Tekkadan had to be stopped, even if it completely turns the established Gundam formula on its head and takes a piss on its remains. Gjallarhorn had to be given time to change for the better, and like Char, McGillis was simply too impatient to wait for this to happen and jumped to destroy as much as he could.

So he WAS a Char, after all!

And yes, there is very much more than could be done. Just resurrect the Angels of Death. History is oft to repeat, after all... :twisted:
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:48 am

Gotta love how Hush's name isn't even in the memorial stone, and before anyone tells me "well his a side character his name isn't that important" Elgar's name is there and he was pretty much non existent in this show before the final, damn the more I think about it the more I see the writers didn't care about Tekkadan as individuals since season 1 give the impression that everyone in Tekkadan matter guess not ? this ending was worthless.

( SRW V is really good tho)

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:53 pm

Amion wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:52 pm
Cybaster wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:54 pm
Zeonista wrote:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:53 pm
I was expecting her to fit into some UC or AU box, but IBO was very much about "this is our own box" so to speak for many things. I was certain Julietta was cute Gundam roadkill like poor Lafter, but she survived & actually learned something about the motive and spirit of people who are gonna climb in a MS and fight to the death. Good or bad, she lived long enough to learn something from fighting the Turbines & Tekkadan. If she was going to be Rustal's Gal Friday, it was a sign of progress for Gjallarhorn. And she & Gali having the personal scene at the end was pretty cool.
Amuro's diatribe to Char in CCA about revolutions and intellectuals really comes to mind here when considering why it was so imperative that Tekkadan had to be stopped, even if it completely turns the established Gundam formula on its head and takes a piss on its remains. Gjallarhorn had to be given time to change for the better, and like Char, McGillis was simply too impatient to wait for this to happen and jumped to destroy as much as he could.

So he WAS a Char, after all!

And yes, there is very much more than could be done. Just resurrect the Angels of Death. History is oft to repeat, after all... :twisted:
McGillis was the best Char clone to date. He had much the same virtues & vices, and ultimately failed in a similar fashion. It was too bad he failed, but the job of the Char clone in a GUndam anime is not to succeed in and of his own efforts. Not allowed, nope, can't be giving the kids the wrong message here! :D

Bringing back the Angels of Death sounds good, but in the wake of the A-V tech being discontinued the "Ghost A.I." system would need to be employed to defeat them. Might be grounds for a movie or ONA release, with MIka-kun returning as a Gundam booster. It could work, yes, it could....
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by doghunter1 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:47 am

Found this, and according to some people who most likely machine-translated it, Japanese censors have resumed reviewing the series as a whole in wake of the ending. Can anyone else here please verify?

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:46 pm

Some interesting tidbits of information from an interview with Tatsuyuki Nagai in Ace. More when I get better copies.
SpoilerShow
- Orga's death was initially planned to be a little earlier.
- Ride's ending was decided during the first season. He went to earth right after their destruction.
- Montag is McGillis' former name. It's a privately controlled company. Rodo took it over
- During the Calamity War all Gundam pilots were adults.
- The Barbatos was initially supposed to be attacked by a number of random soldiers.
- Julietta was also an orphan.
- The rollout periods of the 72 Gundam Frame wasn't necessarily at the same time.
doghunter1 wrote:
Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:47 am
Found this, and according to some people who most likely machine-translated it, Japanese censors have resumed reviewing the series as a whole in wake of the ending. Can anyone else here please verify?
Basically the BPO or whomever is "responding to broadcast complaints". They're basically responding to complaints that they're anime characters who appear underage and unexpectedly die in a show that is being marketed to children, blah blah... there was also complaints about "let's make a baby" because (again) they appear to be super under age.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Apr 26, 2017 12:36 pm

Did anyone else notice the announcement that the VA for Kudelia found out she was pregnant a day after the last episode was aired?
http://ameblo.jp/after-grow/entry-12262091118.html

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