Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

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Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:01 am

Well me and Strike Zero got into this in the Aquarion thread and it looks like I ended up making the thread after all :lol:

I'm sure Muv Luv's reputation preceeds it (or at least Alternative's does) so I don't think I have to go too much into what it's about. Instead I'll recall my experiences.

Right now I'm still working through Extra, having recently completed Chizuru's route.

On my first play through of any visual novel I always pick the choices I myself would make, curious as to see what girl I'd end up with if I were in the situation. Nartually this usually leads me to ending up with no one since I don't focus on any one girl :lol: So yeah, first time I got the "I'M ON A BOAT!" ending.

In the past at this point I'd have gone to a walkthrough and used that to get the other routes, but ever since watching The World God Only Knows I've viewed these games differently. Now I actually play through them thinking like Keima, triggering the necessary flags and getting the ending I desire.

Though I kinda failed with that last part :lol: I decided to go for Kei's route first but I ended up triggering too many of Tama's flags and ended up on her route. Her route was okay, though nothing about it got me particularly invested. It kinda felt like they were taking something minor and blowing it too out of proportion for the sake of drama.

Then I got Kei's route and I liked it a lot more. I like how Takeru actually has a romantic rival in it and Kei doesn't start off with any feelings for him. He really has to work to win her over and the romance itself is the central plot. Though due to the nature of Kei's character it didn't feel like she was developing feelings for Takeru so the resolution felt a bit out there.

Chizuru's route is my favourite so far. Bullying stories always hit close to home for me, and the abundance of Akane also helped garner my favour. Their relationship progressed nicely, though it was kinda frustrating at times but that's in line with their characters.

For a hentai game the actual porn portions are pretty disappointing, though. There's only one scene per heroine at the very end of their routes and there's not much variety in the CGs. The whole "We just became a couple so let's screw immediately!" set ups are eye rolling too, though I think in Kei's case it was justified.

So next I'll do Sumika's route, then Meiya's, and then it'll be off to Unlimited! Though Marimo has a sub-route doesn't she? I'll have to figure out how to get that. I have a pretty good idea. Muv Luv's choices aren't very subtle about whose flags you'll raise.

In regards to Sumika, who nearly derailed the Aquarion thread, I certainly don't blame anyone who finds her irritating. There were plenty of times where she was on the verge of annoying me but damn it she'd do something cute right after and I couldn't stay mad at her. She hits Takeru a lot, sure, but he does deserve it most of the time and he has no problem hitting her back. I know this sounds awful but I kinda like seeing a male harem protagonist that'll hit back.

I'd say those three maids are a lot worse than Sumika.

Meiya definitely is the best, though, which is why I'm saving her for last. I'd read the Unlimited manga long before this and I really liked her there too.

And now I continue that long, slow march towards Alternative.
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Re: Muv Luv

Post by Sume Gai » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:01 am

To be honest as awesome as I think Muv Luv Alternative is it's next to impossible to discuss without some serious spoilers and trust me this is not a story you want spoiled as that kind of thing woulsd suck the potency out of the events.

Regarding Extra, while I haven't played it in full, I've done the main routes which make up the meat of it. Overall Extra is fairly average and honestly on it's own would never have interested me. Unless you really like High School Harem stuff Its main value is as a prologue to Extra and in turn Alternative.

I will say I liked Sumika, In case it isn't incredibly obvious from the opening bit Takeru is the most important person in her life. Without spoilers I can't really go into detail here but suffice to say the Window Scenes are some of the most consistently well written bits in Extra. As often as the pair fight (usually to great comedic effect) It's pretty clear that they are close as these fights always feel like good-natured teasing more than anything.

I won't argue that Meiya does more bad-ass and entertaining things throughout the course of the story and can't deny that she makes a more dynamic leading lady, Heck to be honest I like her just a bit more than Sumika myself but I think Sumika is far from being annoying or badly written.

I'll also broker no Objection to the sentiment that the Three Idiots were far more aggravating than anyone else in Extra, mainly because they were -entirely- malicious towards Takeru throughout.
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Re: Muv Luv

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:50 am

At this point I think Alternative falls into "it was his sled" territory so I wouldn't worry about spoilers. Most give it away when trying to sell the game to others, because like you said Extra is standard high school romance stuff. Which was intentional, of course, since the impact comes from suddenly being thrown into a world of aliens and mecha afterwards. I've been thoroughly spoiled for years on this, but I'm sure when I get to Alternative the experience will still be poignant.

Still, I'll mark the thread in any case.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Sume Gai » Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:02 am

Considering how much actually happens in Alternative I'm willing to bet there are some important things You've not heard about. That right there is part of what I love about Alternative, you won't have noticed it yet but this world, the mecha, the BETA and why you are even there is explained and plotted in such meticulous detail.

Even if you have been fully spoiled I definitely don't intend to spoil anyone who might peak in here out of curiosity (or OCD)
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:48 pm

Of course I don't know absolutely everything, which is why I'm still going to play it. There are several things that being spoiled made me skip over (like Madoka) but Muv Luv isn't one of them. I may know what happens but I have yet to experience it.

Thinking back on the three idiots, they must really not be popular in Japan either :lol: I mean, look at some of the other characters: Tsukiyomi got some h scenes in Supplement and Kashiwagi (the basketball player who helped out the lacrosse team) got her own solo game! The idiots didn't even get anything in Supplement or Altered Fable.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Strike Zero » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:10 pm

I actually really liked the three idiots. I thought they were hilarious. :P Plus, they turned out to be complete bros at the end of Meiya's route.

Ah, Muv-Luv. Playing through the three installments is an experience I won't soon be forgetting. I just wish that some of the other stuff like Altered Fable and the side chronicles were translated also so I could experience it even more!

From what I've gleaned over the interwebs, people like to crap on Extra and Unlimited for reportedly being vastly inferior to Alternative, but I don't agree with that sentiment at all. Neither are as large of an epic as Alternative to be sure, but that doesn't mean they don't have their own merits. In fact, there are even some aspects of Unlimited that I prefer over the way things were done in Alternative, but I won't go into them at this point lest I ruin Destiny_Gundam's experience. For now, I'll just discuss my experience with Extra.

From the minute I saw her, I knew that Meiya was the one my heart was to be set on from beginning to end.
SpoilerShow
As Sume Gai might imagine, this caused me a fair amount of difficulties of varying natures during my playthrough of Alternative, but I digress...
Her route was the one I went for on my first playthrough, and it most certainly did not disappoint. As a matter of fact, it turned out to be my absolute favorite of all of them. This, unfortunately for myself, made getting through the rest of the routes (which I was determined to do before moving onto Unlimited) something of a chore, since none of them could even begin to compare in terms of greatness, but not all of it was unenjoyable.

The second route I did was Tama's. Incidentally, it turned out to be my second favorite, for various reasons. For starters, Tama is freaking adorable, and her plotline about wanting to overcome her fear of performing under pressure really grabbed me. The ending to her story was satisfying, and the final scene with them running away together had me in stitches. Overall, it was a lot of fun and pretty enjoyable.

Then we get to Chizuru and Kei's routes. By the time both of those were over with, I wanted to shoot myself. Multiple times. They both started out promising enough, with both Chizuru and Kei showing off sides to themselves that one might not typically have expected, and that was neat. But then the incident with Akane during the sports festival happened, and things started to go downhill fast. With Chizuru, I initially felt really concerned when the bullying started happening, but eventually (for reasons that I don't precisely recall at this moment) I started to lose interest, then get bored, then get aggravated and wondering when the heck this thing was going to be finished.

The same exact thing happened while going through Kei's route. Which is really, really appropriate, now that I look back on it. :P

The last route I tackled was Sumika's. It was okay, but when it comes down to it, the whole thing was basically just Meiya's route with a different ending, so it really didn't do a whole lot for me. Then there's the fact that I consider her vastly inferior to Meiya...

Ah, Sumika, what a confounding individual you are. My feelings on her are... complicated. When Extra started out, I sincerely wished to annihilate her off the face of the Earth; none of her cutesy antics were ever really endearing to me, her over-the-top violent tendencies didn't help, and I just found the way she acted like she was the only one entitled to Takeru's attention unbearable, especially since Meiya had already managed to charm me the first minute she appeared on-screen. HOWEVER, as the game progressed, I did start liking her a lot more, to the point where I actually felt sympathy towards her during when Takeru
SpoilerShow
chose Meiya over her, but also mad respect for when she supported Takeru and sent him off to go get Meiya back.
She still wasn't my favorite character by a long shot, but my opinion of her by the time the game was done was a far cry from how it was when it started. :)

Then Alternative happened, and I started to detest her all over again, but this time for completely different reasons. :evil: I'll get more into that once Destiny_Gundam has finished up everything so as not to ruin anything too badly.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Sume Gai » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:20 am

Yes I imagined a lot of your eventual feelings came from Alternative. Sumika's roll in all that is certainly polarizing... I imagine it's either something you'll find endearing or rage inducing. I personally found it endearing for reasons that can be discussed later. Beyond that you will be disappointed if you go into Alternative expecting a multi-route game.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Strike Zero » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:02 am

Disappointed, indeed. :roll:

Also:
Destiny_Gundam wrote:So next I'll do Sumika's route, then Meiya's, and then it'll be off to Unlimited! Though Marimo has a sub-route doesn't she? I'll have to figure out how to get that.
Ah, yes... you are going to want to find and finish her, um... "route" before moving on to Alternative, otherwise a callback/reference that pops up midway through the game might end up going over your head.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:46 am

You guys really don't need to worry about 'ruining' anything for me. I've been thoroughly spoiled already :lol:

Actually the only thing I haven't been spoiled on are the events of Extra. No one online likes to talk about those, I guess :lol:

Anyways, haven't played in a bit because I got distracted by Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien. That one's all Akane's fault :lol: Of course it's only in Japanese but I got a 100% save file because as you can imagine I was only interested in a few scenes :D

I am going for Marimo's route at the moment, though. However I'm kinda lost because all this post-lacrosse stuff is unknown to me and there's nothing to indicate if I'm on the right route. Well, I did get all the Marimo flags and missed key Sumiika/Meiya flags so I should be okay.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Strike Zero » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:37 pm

Funny you should mention Kimi ga Nozomu Eien; I've actually thought about checking it out myself thanks to Muv-Luv. It's not Akane who was responsible for that, however, but rather somebody else.

Let's just say that I seem to have a thing for badass blue-haired women with ponytails. :P
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Sume Gai » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:40 pm

The Marimo 'flag' is easy to spot. I don't know if you need to be on one route or another but it'll show up as you are leaving for the
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hot springs.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Strike Zero wrote:Let's just say that I seem to have a thing for badass blue-haired women with ponytails. :P
Unfortunately for you Mitsuki has short hair for most of Kiminozo.

I watched the Kiminozo anime yeeeeeears ago. I think it's the first anime I saw with such adult themes on it. Certainly was the first where the characters had active sex lives. It is a good drama and I recommend checking it out. It's through it's connection to Kiminozo that I learned of Muv Luv so seeing Akane show up was a nice bit of nostalgia.

I should rewatch the Akane Maniax OVA again. It wasn't very good but now I can catch all the Muv Luv references in it.
Sume Gai wrote:The Marimo 'flag' is easy to spot. I don't know if you need to be on one route or another but it'll show up as you are leaving for the
SpoilerShow
hot springs.
I guess it's an off shoot of Sumika or Meiya's arc since the other three didn't involve hot springs. And yeah, Marimo's flags were simply a matter of running away at lunch and going to the physics prep room.

Why would physics even need a prep room? It's just math.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Fivemarks » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:29 pm

Honestly, in my opinion, Takeru is a pretty awesome viewpoint character, purely because he's interesting and not kinda pathetic like say someone written by Nasu. It also helps that he'd fit in on mechatalk, and that he manages to "win" and grow as a person all throughout Extra Unlimited and Alternative.


Also Tactical Surface Fighters are boss. Especially the F-22, shame it got SPOILER'D by SPOILER's Yamato Damashii

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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:58 pm

Haven't been playing recently due to stuff.

So I got Marimo's route. Best ending ever :lol:

Now I'm on Sumika's route... I think :lol: I'm at the part with Meiya in the cave and I keep asking myself "... I'm on Sumika's route, right?" I guess Strike Zero was right about her route.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Sume Gai » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:37 pm

yep the main heroines have almost the same route. The earliest indication of which route you are on is who you play with in the arcade tag match.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:44 pm

Well of course I know I was supposed to be on Sumika's route since I made sure to raise all her flags and obviously it did turn out that way (at the H scene as we speak). But while reaching this point Meiya got pretty much all of the major focus so it doesn't feel like Sumika took that starring role despite it being her route (though I've seen that before, coughUBWcough).

Doesn't help that Sumika isn't tied into any sort of plot to begin with. Tama had her archery thing, Chizuru had her bullying problem, Kei had the thing with the doctor, Meiya has the deal with her family... All Sumika had was feeling inferior to Meiya.

Boy was I annoyed at that scene at her window, though. I actually don't like Takeru all that much and his stupid inaction really bugged me.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:32 pm

Wanted to avoid double posting, but oh well.

So I finished Meiya's route the same night I did Sumika's (auto skip is such a time saver), thus completing all the routes in Extra. So I'll give an overview on this portion of the franchise.

It may be generic by design, but it's still competantly made. I enjoyed myself a lot and I don't remember ever being bored, not even with the lacrosse stuff. I know many would rather skip Extra and get to the mecha stuff, but Extra definitely is worth a play.

I still say the best route is Chizuru's, as I got the most emotionally involved in that one. I really felt for her when she was crying over her torn uniform, and I got majorly pissed during that scene with the teachers. Takeru declaring his feelings like that was seriously boss.

Kei's is still second best. As I said before I liked how Takeru had to actually win Kei over, rather than just building on pre-existing feelings.

Tama's is third. A lot less durama in this one which made for easier reading, though as I said before the drama that exists seems to be overblown.

I guess I'll put Marimo's 'route' here :lol: Marimo really is the best sort of teacher and you can tell just why Takeru is so fond of her and why her character has such an impact in the other games. I do wish I could have made sweet love to her while she was in her regular persona, though, rather than the man hungry drunk...

It's with some regret that I have to put Sumika and Meiya's routes dead last because they are EXACTLY the same barring which girl Takeru chooses. It robs them of any uniqueness and makes them come off as far more generic. Also, in all the other routes it felt like Takeru naturally fell in love with the girl in question, while in these routes he's forced to make a choice. It felt more like he picked a girl just because he had to, rather than because he was truely in love with her.

Between the two Sumika's is definitely weaker since there's really no central conflict to resolve. Takeru chooses her, she's happy, the end. Compare that to confronting those teachers, telling the ex-boyfriend to shove off, that archery match, or busting into a fancy wedding to get your girl back.

Just looking at the endings themselves, Kei's is actually my favourite. Napping together under DAT TREE... That's my idea of romantic. I like how Chizuru's ending goes into the future a bit more and shows how things are going further on. The wishes at the shrine were hilarious. Tama's was cute and Meiya's was okay, I'm just not fond of the idea of Takeru completely throwing his old life away. And again, Sumika's was just mundane. I don't hate her or her route or anything, it was just bland.

As for the girls themselves, Meiya definitely is the best with her always kind attitude, her strength of will, and her rich girl naivetee. However the girl I find myself attracted to the most is Kei (even moreso in Unlimited thank you whoever invented black tank tops). My reputation may suggest Tama, but I'm more inclined to dote on her, not date her (Kasumi on the other hand...).

TL;DR: Extra is fun stuff and shouldn't be skipped.

Now I'm quite a ways into Unlimited and aiming for Meiya right out of the gates. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Unlimited is pretty linear, right? So I wanna get the whole experience with Meiya before I use auto skip to get everyone else.

One last question, but is the CG and event viewer unlocked after you clear Unlimited?
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Strike Zero » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:14 pm

I agree that the Meiya/Sumika route probably works best if it's the first one that the player tackles, because the primary issues of the plotline (Takeru meeting and getting to know Meiya, him attempting to sort out his memories, the varying degrees of culture shock that he, Sumika and Meiya experienced along the way) are relatively mundane compared to some of the things the other girls had to deal with. However, that doesn't necessarily make them any less emotionally potent -- one of my favorite scenes to this day was the one where Takeru went to comfort Meiya after her attempts to make dinner for him went horribly awry.
Destiny_Gundam wrote:(Kasumi on the other hand...).
Ah, yes, Kasumi. I too was ready and raring for the chance to purse a tender loving relationship with our fair bunny-eared lass!

...

...

...Disappointment. -_-
Destiny_Gundam wrote:Now I'm quite a ways into Unlimited and aiming for Meiya right out of the gates. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Unlimited is pretty linear, right?
That would be yes.
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It suffers from the same problems you described in the Sumika/Meiya route, except this time it's arguably even worse since the only things that differ between the routes are the H-scenes and the endings, the later of which are made different by copy/pasta-ing each girl into the final scenes and leaving it at that. I mean, it didn't really ruin anything for me since Meiya was once again the first girl I went with and that experience has stuck with me ever since, but if one were to go about it any other way, well...
So, I agree, choose Meiya the first time you play it through, YOU MUST DO THIS.

In fact, you should just do the exact same thing when you get to Alternative, it's just better that way.
Destiny_Gundam wrote:One last question, but is the CG and event viewer unlocked after you clear Unlimited?
That would also be yes.
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:30 pm

Strike Zero wrote:Ah, yes, Kasumi. I too was ready and raring for the chance to purse a tender loving relationship with our fair bunny-eared lass!

...

...

...Disappointment. -_-
See Altered Fable.
Strike Zero wrote:In fact, you should just do the exact same thing when you get to Alternative, it's just better that way.
Wait, isn't Alternative 100% linear? You can only end up with
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Unit 00/Sumika
, right?
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Re: Muv Luv *There will be spoilers*

Post by Strike Zero » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:40 pm

Destiny_Gundam wrote:See Altered Fable.
See Strike Zero cannot into reading Japanese. -_-
Destiny_Gundam wrote:You can only end up with
SpoilerShow
Unit 00/Sumika
, right?
...

Um. Sure.

Anyway, I've actually heard that the ending can be altered ever-so-slightly depending on some of the choices that you make. It's only a really minor thing that doesn't affect a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but it's still something.
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