F91: Theo Fairchild, Newtyped to Death

[Chavelo]

I never really got Iron Mask at all, he turned out to be a shallow villain, I mean, why did he make those Bugs to kill everyone? Was there a point or did he just want to be evil? So him randomly killing someone he dislikes seems fairly understandable.

I recall reading that he had connections with the Jupiter Empire leaders who wanted to liquidate the Earth population.

[Destiny_Gundam]

He wanted to get rid of the riff raff and leave the elite of Cosmo Babalyonia

[Chirico Cuvie]

One thing you all are forgetting in citing examples like Scirocco or Mashymre is that they were in mobile suits. More precisely, they need technology to help them do weird things. It's very rare for Newtypes to do weird things on their own without technology - one of the few examples I can think of is Amuro mentally warning everyone to get off White Base at the end of MSG. There's no evidence that Carozzo has some kind of Newtype force choke, so he probably had Theo poisoned.

I don't agree with you at all.

I don't think you could substantiate the claim that you need an MS to use your newtype potential you posses (unless of course you've got the biosensor or psycho frame). The true definition of a newtype is debatable, as there is no real one. The novels, which I would go by as being the best explanation, would depict it as one with a latent communinative ability in their mind, able to speak to others with this power, and feel and sense the future, pain, sorrow, and other strong emotions. Which is why they are so critical and important in combat situations, because the can sense the ill will and hatred firing bullets at them, and avoid being hit before it happens. They sense the thought, and avoid the bullet while pulling the trigger is still being thought in the mind.

Anyway, with that said, I also believe there are different types of newtypes alive, and amuro isn't a good example for all newtypes, because he seemed to be more sensitive to communication, and not power or anger. That is why he was able to communicate with whitebase crewmembers after ABQ.

Kamille however seemed to be a newtype with the potential to channel energy of other newtypes, passed away or alive, and allow it to supplement his own power and energy, now if he could use that power out of his MS is debatable, but I like to think that when he crushed yazan with that beam saber, he could have done something amazing like that with or without the zeta gundam. With that said, who's to say that with a leap of evolution as big as the timegap between zeta gundam and F91, that people wouldn't find ways to do more amazing things. Especially an unstable cyber-newtype.

With all that said, I do think theo was poisoned, and the "newtyped to death" thing was me merely poking fun at F91 and the plothole, and being facetious, but who's to say a powerful newtype needs a machine to be amazing?

[mcred23]

I don't think you could substantiate the claim that you need an MS to use your newtype potential you posses (unless of course you've got the biosensor or psycho frame).

I think that is what Chris was getting at. Scirocco did have a bio-sensor on his mobile suit (The O) when he fried Kamille's brain. I'm not sure if Mashymre had any on his MS when he blew himself up (He was in his Zaku III Custom), but it wouldn't surpise me if he had some Newtype system in place in it.

[Chirico Cuvie]

I don't think you could substantiate the claim that you need an MS to use your newtype potential you posses (unless of course you've got the biosensor or psycho frame).

I think that is what Chris was getting at. Scirocco did have a bio-sensor on his mobile suit (The O) when he fried Kamille's brain. I'm not sure if Mashymre had any on his MS when he blew himself up (He was in his Zaku III Custom), but it wouldn't surpise me if he had some Newtype system in place in it.

I think that you're missing the point.

The biosensor definitely aided scirocco in his plight to mind-zoink kamille, but I think that scirocco could have done something (or at least tried) without the O to aid him. Imagine an alternate ending, where kamille and scirocco are.... I don't know.... in normal suits fighting with fencing swords, like Amuro and Char did. I think Scirocco could have tried to do the same thing to him in that situation, and I think Kamille would have gained power from his deceased comrades via his newtype ability without using the zeta gundam.

He specifically said "I'll let you use my body" when he was talking to all of the people that had passed on during the war and wanted scirocco dead. Their ill will and harsh feelings towards Scirocco are what gave Kamille the edge.

In conclusion, in case you guys want to skip the details and go to the main meat: A newtype is a person, not a mobile suit, and the gundam by no means makes the man.

[Mark064]

But Camille is not gaining abilities through his own powers this is something attributed to the bio sensor. If he was not in the Zeta Gundam and on foot he would have just died. Amuro and Char in their sword fight did nothing out of the oridinary. Once again Amuro and Char during their gun fight in CCA same deal.

There is not one instance of a Newtype out of his suit doing anything that we can call an attack. The best Newtypes are able to do out of their suit is talk to people over great distances (see ZZ and First Gundam). Newtypes are not psychics they can't bend spoons with their minds or even read peoples minds. As for Mashma and his Zaku III Custom I assume he must have some sort of Newtype technology in that allowing him to deflect beams.

[Dunpeal]

Also, remember that Rosamia's ghost said that Camille is in the machine that can channel their energy.

[padre]

As for Mashma and his Zaku III Custom I assume he must have some sort of Newtype technology in that allowing him to deflect beams.

You're begging the question. Be that as it may...

Let's not minimize what Newtypes are able to accomplish without technology. Talking to people over great distances is nothing to scoff at, and it's hardly the only thing Newtypes accomplish. Four summons the Psyco Gundam to her in episode 19 of Zeta (as Ben Wooder comments that he can see her "Newtype aura") and yet the Titans are unable to duplicate this feat with technology fifteen episodes later. Puru Two is unable to assassinate Haman because of the force of Haman's presence. Maria Pia Armonia can heal crowds of people.

Of course, the whole purpose behind Newtype technology is to increase the potency of a Newtype's powers. But Newtypes are fully capable of extraordinary feats without such machinery.

[ORegan]

didn't brain fried retard Kamille in ZZ talk to Judau while on the beach and told him some good advice for piloting? If someone completely comatose can talk to you in your head from a beach, i think that should count.

I'm still waiting for the newtype push

[Mark064]

Four summoning the Psyco Gundam is due to technology this is why Ben Wooder loses control of the Psyco Gundam and it's panels start displaying differently. Ben then makes a comment that the Psyco Gundam is definetly something only Artifical Newtypes can pilot. I would assume this would have to do with the psyco-control chair. Later in Zeta when Camille activiates the Swords of Fury to destroy Yazan's Hambrabi the panels in the Zeta Gundam also change.

As for Maria and her healing from what I am gathering the whole thing is just Zanscare propoganda. When Shakti (the only non Zanscare there) is witness to this whole process she remarks that the whole thing is just a lie.

But really if you want to go further both Judau and Camille are able to look through walls/floors. Camille does this in I believe episode 1 when being held by Matosh. And I can't remember the exact episode Judau did this but it was on the Moon when he looked through the mall and saw Bright and Wong talking to each other.

Of course this does give us an idea of what Newtypes can and cannot do without technology. Newtypes cannot do anything physically they are unable to move objects or cause any sort of change in people (physical harm or otherwise). If a bullet comes flying at them they are dead. Aside from the Newtype normal stuff, they seem to be able to sense the true intentions of people, communicate with people and rarely look through solid objects. With their pressure they are able to "scare" off people. This is something present in fighting anime (and I pressume other mediums) where the fighters own force is so strong they are able to produce simulair effects.

[padre]

Four summoning the Psyco Gundam is due to technology

Inasmuch as the Psyco Gundam is designed for Newtypes, sure. But Four is able to take control of the machine and call it to her without any assistance, yet when the Titans have her at Kilimanjaro later, with a machine designed to allow for remote control of the Gundam, it works extremely poorly. She's able to accomplish something without the use of a machine that later cannot be duplicated with a machine.

As for Maria and her healing from what I am gathering the whole thing is just Zanscare propoganda. When Shakti (the only non Zanscare there) is witness to this whole process she remarks that the whole thing is just a lie.

Shakti is with Suzy, and it's Suzy who comments that, "It must false! These tricks," and then, "What? What's happening?" Shakti responds, "The sick are getting well."

But it's absurd to think that Maria, of all people, is that the center of some elaborate hoax. And if it were a hoax, why would she feign collapse in front of Chronicle, after she's been carried away from the crowd? There's no reason she'd need to fool him.

I honestly think a great many people are underestimating the potency of Newtypes, and it leads to their coming up with all sorts of ad hoc theories to explain phenomena.

[ORegan]

I think the underestimations of newtypes is due to the fact that they are all used as tools of war, even though they have a potential to help the world as much as they can destroy it. think of 08th MS team with the bunch of newtype kids(who we never see again) Dr. Flannagan was apparently using them for testing new technologies and maybe were gonna be used to actually kill some Feddy stuff.

[Crusader]

Hmm i recall judau using his newtype powers outside of his ms. He scared the heck out of Haman when she shot his sister. Not to mention, when he fought the quin mantha, he gave a speech to glemmy outside of ZZ and i recall bright hearing him, as well as his sister. They were nowhere near axis at that time.

Not to mention, Kamillie was guiding ple when she was piloting mk, and she was about to active the psycho gundam. He tells her that the machine is evil.

[nacho-wan]

But Camille is not gaining abilities through his own powers this is something attributed to the bio sensor. If he was not in the Zeta Gundam and on foot he would have just died. Amuro and Char in their sword fight did nothing out of the oridinary. Once again Amuro and Char during their gun fight in CCA same deal.

There is not one instance of a Newtype out of his suit doing anything that we can call an attack. The best Newtypes are able to do out of their suit is talk to people over great distances (see ZZ and First Gundam). Newtypes are not psychics they can't bend spoons with their minds or even read peoples minds. As for Mashma and his Zaku III Custom I assume he must have some sort of Newtype technology in that allowing him to deflect beams.

but then the biosensor was never mentioned in Z Gundam. It was retconned after Sentinel. The truth is that the real power of Newtypes has never been fathom compleately, therefore we will find ourselves surprised againg by the Bald Wizard -if he ever retakes control of Gundam

[Mark064]

All of which is irrelevant. It's not 1986 anymore, and if the bio sensor was mentioned in the dialouge or added later changes nothing. Zeta Gundam now offically has the bio sensor and had so for a long time, it's an established fact now.

[OrionsGambit]

This might be a bit off topic. But with all this, what are the exact powers and abilities of a newtype (inside and outside a MS)? And does being a cyber change or add anything? If I remember correctly the cyber-newtype kid in CCA (can't remember name) exclaims that he (or any other cyber-newtype?) could ever compare to a naturally born Newtype...

[Phantomexe87]

This might be a bit off topic. But with all this, what are the exact powers and abilities of a newtype (inside and outside a MS)? And does being a cyber change or add anything? If I remember correctly the cyber-newtype kid in CCA (can't remember name) exclaims that he (or any other cyber-newtype?) could ever compare to a naturally born Newtype...

Well I always saw it as while Cyber's are more powerful, they have less control over their powers or even self, as you'll notice, they tend to be insane. Plus being an artificial newtype can make them feel inferior to the real thing, even though they actually aren't.

I think Tomino has been purposely vague on the powers of Newtypes, as they vary greatly from type to type. Some are clairvoyants, others cane merely sense one another, some can telepathically speak to one another, and others have psychically offenssive powers like Scirocco and one has powers similair to those of Jesus, such as Maria of Zanscare. So very varied.

[mcred23]

Yeah. It's at the point where, in some shows (Zeta being the most known for this), the line between Oldtype and Newtype becomes hazy-to-nonexsistant.

Powers is a similar thing, as there really is no definition of what a Newtype, be it a very weak one or an uber-powerful one who can predict what you'll say an hour ahead of time, they all randomly have the traits of a Newtype. There is no clear 'levels for them that would help determine any abilities or powers, they just get them...

[ORegan]

this is how i picture newtypes:

A. very weak jedi's in terms of physical abilities, but have more mental abilities.

B. Xmen that can all basically do the same thing, except they all have levels in how strong they are.

[Haros_Pet_Kat]

I picture Newtypes as being able to use more of their brain at once (I don't know if this is actually true or not).

After reading the summary of Beltorchika's Children and what it is like compared to CCA, I have to say that Newtype powers' may be limited only by the connection that they have with other newtypes, and became the difference that saved Amuro's life (he was pretty much ganged up on). Amuro had a strong backing due to better established relationships, but Char only had himself and... Quess and that other kid, and that kind of rag-tag group wasn't very well connected.

It's a shame that Beltorchika's Children isn't canon. We ended up with Amuro just being plain more powerful than Char.