Knight's & Magic

The place to discuss anything relating to anime or manga.

Moderators: ShadowCell, EZero8, Destiny_Gundam, Kenji

User avatar
Deathzealot
HiMAT Spammer
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by Deathzealot » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:09 pm

/face palm/ Really? This episode was interesting but god Silver Phoenix and Ernesti did it again with upgrading Silhouette Knights in such a small time. God I was really? Again? Though, I did like that the Key Daggers were a key point in the latter half of the episode. The first half was interesting in that we get to see the major strength of the small PA things, I forgot the name currently, in that they were quite useful for special operations like that. Then we get to the second half after the Silver Phoenix saved the Princess and her family, and everything went downhill. Did like Kid showing the Princess around town sort of speak and showing her a good time. Especially with the town people having the WTF look on their faces as they stared at the images of her with her father and her current laughing figure enjoying her time with Kid.

Honestly, this is my least favorite of the Episodes so far. And that is saying something since I have been pretty much upbeat for this series, defending it against others. It was an interesting episode, I admit, but god was it painful to watch at a few places. Also, did we really need a character set-up as Ernesti's rival who created the Air Ships this close to the end of the series. He would have been introduced earlier in the series. /shakes head/

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by yazi88 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:07 pm

They changed a few things from the novel in this ep, that engineer did not see the Ikaruga in that battle, it was quite later on. The assassin/theif woman also escaped in the novel but was killed in the anime. The enemy prince is also more competent in battle/tactics and is a bit more patient with that general, but he is shown to be a total brat in the anime.


But then again, most of the characters in the show are 1 dimensional with no development or depth... Ernesti is a low-rent Sei from Build Fighters that just geeks out over mechs and nothing else. Dietrich is probably the most developed in the show, being very arrogant and a coward before, but now more relaxed and leads people into battle, although the show leaves out some of his sarcastic side.

Cramming things into 13 eps was not a good idea because the pacing is way too fast and things are glossed over too much without going into any details outside of mech development via Ernesti's fanboyisms.

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:35 pm

I will say, I really appreciate that Dietrich has been an actual character with actual development; it seems like in any other show, the dude who panicked and got mech-jacked in the first couple of episodes would be nothing but a one-note joke character but he's actually shown real growth.

But yeah, my main concern is that while there are interesting side characters, the mains are just super bland and forgettable. Ernie really suffers from being an audience stand-in and has basically no personality outside of "loves mechs", while his little girlfriend is edging uncomfortably close to Bella Swan territory. Kid didn't get anything himself until this week's episode where he got connected to the princess.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
MythSearcher
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by MythSearcher » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:11 am

Guys, be warned. If you are not into "I'm a hero so I am invincible" type of story, you will not like the rest of the series.
The whole series is more real robot without Ernesti piloting anything, but Ernesti with Ikaruga means super robot in full throttle. Oh, and without the hot blood but plain curb stomping the enemy.
The novel basically is this, in this particular arc, you can have Edger and D fighting fair and square with enemies in the battlefield and think you are reading some kind of medieval knight fights, and in the background, Ikaruga will be fighting Historia Brittonum Arthur style (I mean the line
"there fell in one day 960 men from one charge by Arthur; and no one struck them down except Arthur himself,"
or Musou style for more modern interpretation)
SpoilerShow
Ikaruga will not meet any difficulty until the final boss of this arc, the dragonic airship, but the only difficulty seems to be in terms of not having enough fire power to finish it in one single blow, so not much. The ENEMY is the one that had to think like protagonist of other shows, how to fully utilize their machines to beat the over-powered overlord, ahem, yes, Ernesti and Ikaruga, talking about you
Oh, pretty sure the anime won't get to that arc, Ernesti is talking about upgrading Ikaruga(Actually, Magatsuiaruga) AGAIN in the newest web novel chapter.

BTW, the other blue mecha Ernesti used is called Toy Box, and the one he used to fight the shell queen is Toy Box 2 (version 2, some, ahem, minor, differences)
AmuroNT1 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:35 pm
I will say, I really appreciate that Dietrich has been an actual character with actual development; it seems like in any other show, the dude who panicked and got mech-jacked in the first couple of episodes would be nothing but a one-note joke character but he's actually shown real growth.

But yeah, my main concern is that while there are interesting side characters, the mains are just super bland and forgettable. Ernie really suffers from being an audience stand-in and has basically no personality outside of "loves mechs", while his little girlfriend is edging uncomfortably close to Bella Swan territory. Kid didn't get anything himself until this week's episode where he got connected to the princess.
Well, he is pretty much the ONLY character that got some major development in the whole story.(Even in the novel)
Edgar was already the stern and knightly knight from pretty much the very beginning; Kid had little screen time compared to all the others and almost always just the decoration of Ardy or Ernesti(most of his screen time is sadly, this episode for his love interest); Ardy will still be the fan girl of Ernesti probably until the end.
All other supporting characters, nvm.
Ernesti? You want god to have a character development? Blasphemy!

The sad thing is, the novel had the school(and a bit of pre-school) arc where Kid and Ardy kinda had their lime light and some, albeit little, development, by cutting that part, they became complete decorative characters. They are supposed to be second only to Ernesti in all senses of magic and piloting, but now are just Ernesti's horse-boy/girl.
Since the anime is unlikely to get into the Demononic forest arc, Ardy's episode is unlikely.

Another sad thing is, Ardy became Ernesti's fangirl in the novel school arc, that IS her character development. =_=

User avatar
MythSearcher
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:58 am

Alright, they did cut out the reverse invasion part, which kinda makes sense (It is just to defend your own country but hardly so if you invade another, even if that country did invade you before.)

Therefore, the development of weapons has to be hasten. The draconic ship make its appearance within the invasion, instead of being the protector of a lost country being attacked by others.

A lot of strategical planning and development of the newly introduced mecha was ignored, the caped magic specialized "Wizard type" that appeared was pretty good against the heavy units, while developed as a make shift unit in this war(since they are just modified old generation units with increased armour(thus mana storage) that became a main type out of three in the future.

Also, it is fun to see that they have a third unit in the Silver Phoenix, in the novel, they only had two. The Centuar type wasn't mass-produced in that sense and they only brought Kid and Ardy's units to the west.

BTW, they didn't say the difference of the technology and made it sounded like the propulsion system was a copycat of Ikaruga, but in the novel, the Vyver's propulsion is more like an impulse rocket and Elnesti's propulsion systems are more like jet engines.(which actually makes sense because it will be much more efficient to use jet within the atmosphere)

Also, the Silver Phoenix captured the prince's levitate ship kinda intact in the novel.

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:42 pm

Halfway through the episode, my reaction to what happened to the Prince:

"What a profoundly stupid man."
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
Deathzealot
HiMAT Spammer
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by Deathzealot » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:56 pm

Honestly, I am getting to point that I am getting a wee bit tired of Ernesti fanboying over new stuff. It was fun and interesting the first few times but now at the end of the series, it is getting a bit annoying. I honestly thought Ernesti was going to join the Prince there for a brief moment because he wanted a look at the Airships. Sigh. Anyways still an interesting episode but it isn't as fun as watching those first few episodes.

That said. Are we getting one more episode for twelve or we getting the full cour with thirteen?

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:16 pm

Since the title of the next episode is "Knights and Dragon", I'm willing to bet it's the last episode of the season.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by yazi88 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:22 pm

If it is, its not going to be a actual ending to the season, cause there isn't a resolution after that battle in the novel, unless the anime condenses it to just that battle with the dragon followed by driving out the enemy from the kingdom.

Given how this ep bypasses a lot of the ground battle with the knights, the next ep will probably do that too.

User avatar
MythSearcher
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by MythSearcher » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:23 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:22 pm
If it is, its not going to be a actual ending to the season, cause there isn't a resolution after that battle in the novel, unless the anime condenses it to just that battle with the dragon followed by driving out the enemy from the kingdom.

Given how this ep bypasses a lot of the ground battle with the knights, the next ep will probably do that too.
Condensing, highly likely. That's pretty much what's the whole anime was doing. The first 15 mins will be fighting the Draconic ship, and driving out the enemy will be something like 30 sec. The last 5 mins will be happily ever after and "What are they doing now?"

Sounds legit.

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by yazi88 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:52 pm

Sadly this is the norm in majority of 1 cour anime shows that are adaptations of novels/light novels. Rarely do these go further than 1 cour. Although if this show/novel is popular enough a 2nd season could happen.

User avatar
MythSearcher
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:16 pm

And, the result is we have one more episode left, Heaven & Earth.

Haven't actually watch the episode yet, will do that tomorrow when I have the time to do so.

User avatar
krullnar
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:42 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by krullnar » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:56 am

Looks like we'll get one more episode of this highly condensed version of the novel.
ShadowCell - Mr. T doesn't read YouTube comments. Neither does Jesus. Or MacGuyver. Don't you want to be like Mr. T, Jesus, and MacGuyver?

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:44 am

Wow, this episode kind of made me hate Ernie. I mean, his obsession with robots was already pretty bad, but this week he acted like he cares more about machines than human beings.

Also, that part where Eyepatch Badguy was expositing about Engineer Badguy may have been the clumsiest infodump I've ever seen in my entire life.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
MythSearcher
Elitist Earth Politician
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:36 pm

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:29 am

AmuroNT1 wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:44 am
Wow, this episode kind of made me hate Ernie. I mean, his obsession with robots was already pretty bad, but this week he acted like he cares more about machines than human beings.

Also, that part where Eyepatch Badguy was expositing about Engineer Badguy may have been the clumsiest infodump I've ever seen in my entire life.
And this episode is just ridiculous.
While Ernesti had access to machines from the badguys, it cannot be said from the opposite party.
(They actually obtained a fallen ship and its crew in the anime and an intact ship in the web novel, not any ship, but the flag ship of the prince)
Even if I ignore the part where they didn't bother to mention in the anime but clearly stated in the web novel(Ikaruga's propulsion is jet and the enemy's propulsion inspired by Ikaruga is more like an (im)pulse rocket engine since all they see is the machine propelling fire) and assumed that they somehow invented a jet thruster type on their own, how on earth do Kojaso(the engineer) know about the name of the tech? He can come up with his own name, but not whisper a sentence saying "what you call Magic Jet Thruster".
There is no way he know what Ernesti called the technology.

They added stuff into the story and took away stuff, and the result is, well, bad.
The sword idiot lost swordman, and the novel had him collected weapons from the battlefield and equip all of them onto his new machine(A prototype of the King's knight instead of the anime's King's knight) and that is what he used to show his caring to his dead comrades, and called the Dead Men Sword. While the princess of the enemy is an added character so they do have the grounds of adding one more royal knight unit, the sword idiot became just an idiot. Typical 70's enemy lacky type of character, instead of the more human psychopath who still value his own comrades like the novel.(Which made him less of a shallow character like lots of others) I'd admit it makes no sense that he can gather giant robot weapons on foot and carry his father/adopter(The eyepatch guy) back to their own country with just a horse carriage they picked up in the middle of the journey, but character wise its a better story than a guy who fled and just psychotic at the part where he know that he can continue to fight on a royal unit. (I mean, he can just use a mass-production unit and that'd be almost no difference for him if he just wanted to fight)

[Edit] I checked the published novel version, and the anime is modeled after that. Vvyer appeared within the invasion, and not as a protector of the country.

The part where you said made Ernesti sounded really bad, well, bad addition.
In the web novel, when he was fighting the Vvyer, he only said that large weapons have their own weaknesses, which are weak points exposed when used singly. And he went by his own philosophy, which is giant weapons have to be the extension of humans, which is the more elegant and ultimate answer. He never said anything about predicting big guns and giant battleships.(It seems like he doesn't even think the Vvyer is a threat at all, but just a vulgar attempt to the ultimate answer. He does think the levitate ships are cool though)
While he does act like he cares more about machines than humans even in the novel, he does it in a more elegant way. He cares a lot about humans, maybe even more than most people would do in a middle age era, especially to his friends and comrades, just that he cares more about machines. Just very passionate overall.
Didn't bother to check if that is in the publication version of the novel, not a story I will read twice in such a short time.(alright, I only checked the book in the store, probably won't buy it)

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:34 pm

So is this just a case where the adaptation is bad? Because people seem really fond of this series, but the anime is just making so many missteps that it's very hard to enjoy.
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by yazi88 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:40 pm

I've read the novel version that the anime is pretty much up to so far, a lot of details get glossed over, even the technical ones that the show likes to go into. Some of the politics which is very bare bone is explored more in the novel and the battles are also more detailed. Dietrich was actually defending the other kingdom forces retreating while here it was just a battle. Like I said before, the characters are explored a bit more rather than being cut and paste generic characters and villians that the anime has for the most part. The Princess has a few more scenes with her developing more into a proper ruler and overcoming her grief of the kingdom and her dad in the novel.

User avatar
AmuroNT1
Oblivious Harem Loser
Posts: 3667
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:41 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:47 pm

Well, the series is over. My thoughts...yeah, sorry but I just didn't care for it. There were way too many problems and not enough good stuff to balance it out. By the end, the Char's Counterattack reference/homage made me feel like facepalming rather than celebrating.

Here's the breakdown of my issues with it all:

-The characters didn't feel like characters so much as archetypes or walking clichés. Most of the time they were just cardboard cutouts with traits like "spunky female soldier" or "reasonable authority figure" written on them. Out of the entire cast I'd only say two characters had any kind of growth or development: Dietrich and Kid. And even then, D's development just kind of petered out while Kid's didn't start until the anime was nearly over. At worst you got characters like Addy, who reminded me of Twilight's Bella Swan in the worst way possible.

-Ernesti was just not a good character. His entire personality was defined by his obsessive, almost fetish-level love of giant robots, to the point where it often looked like he cared more about machines than human lives (like I said before, the end of Episode 12 being the worst example). I kept wondering, "Is he supposed to appeal to the audience? Is this what the writer thinks mecha fans are like?" Maybe he's supposed to appeal to the kind of people who get caught up in the Isekai power fantasy and WANT invincible heroes like SAO's Kirito or Irregular at Magic High School's Tatsuya Shiba.

-Speaking of, there was absolutely no dramatic tension whatsoever. From the first moment he touched a robot's controls Ernesti was invincible. He always won without so much as scuffing his paint job; the worst damage he ever sustained was his robot's engines getting damaged in Episode 12. The closest he ever came to losing was that mock battle, and even then he still technically won since he managed to convince the rival mech builder to coming around to his way of thinking. Honestly, I consider the fact that someone other than him got the killing blow on the final boss to be a minor miracle in and of itself.

-The evil empire...oh lord, where to begin with these people? Every single character on their side looked like they could have been the main villain of another anime, their main motivation was "EvilEvilEvilEvil!", and in fact you could replace all their dialog with that and it wouldn't change anything. The fact that their home nation looks like it's directly adjacent to Mordor didn't help matters at all. It was just painful. I'm not saying I want every villain to be tragic and nuanced, but for heaven's sake, they should at least be better written than Captain Planet villains.

-The pacing was atrocious; it felt like rather than trying figuring out how far they could go in 13 episodes, the writers picked out where they wanted it to end and then cut out whatever they considered secondary in order to reach that point. Timeskips of several months or years happened haphazardly, with absolutely no indication to the audience; coupled with the fact that the characters didn't visibly age or change it resulted in an odd dissonance where you find yourself wondering "How did they manage to do that overnight?!" To make matters worse it seems like they cut out anything "slow", in other words quiet moments that establish the characters' personalities or motivations, in favor of cramming as much action into the series as possible.

-The narrator. I hate the narrator. Not her voice, but the fact that half the time she was repeating stuff that was happening on-screen as if she was narrating the show for the blind, the other half she was giving needless exposition, and that the exposition we usually NEEDED was nowhere to be found.

-The rest of the show wasn't bad per se, but it was just painfully mediocre. The setting was just generic high fantasy with giant robots awkwardly shoved in; there was nothing really distinct or memorable to separate it from your average Tolkien-inspired fantasy story except for the robots. And even then, the robot designs aren't really memorable or interesting. Mostly they just looked like medieval armor scaled up, while Ernesti's Ikaruga looked like a rip-off of the Gawain from Code Geass. And the soundtrack had one or two good pieces, but for the most part it was just kind of there not standing out in any way.

People seem really fond of this series, so maybe it's just a case of a bad adaptation. I do hope that's the case, because if the whole thing is like this anime then I simply do not understand why people like it. I wouldn't recommend K&M to anyone, unless I was saying something along the lines of "This is how you SHOULDN'T write an Isekai story."
Sakuya: "Whatever. Stop lying and give up your schemes, now."
Yukari: (Which lies and schemes are she talking about? It's hard to keep track of them all...)

-Touhou 07.5 ~ Immaterial and Missing Power

User avatar
Deathzealot
HiMAT Spammer
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:08 am
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Contact:

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by Deathzealot » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:29 pm

Yeah. I agree they could have done better with this series. At first, it was a fun series that had a bit of guilty pleasure to it. But it got old very fast.

Also, I agree that they should have done something about the character's appearance over the course of the series. The main characters still look they are in their early teens, not their late teens by the end of the series. Though I do admit it was interesting seeing Ernesti in a Knight Runner's uniform at Elenora's coronation though he goes right back to his regular stuff by the last bit of the series.

That said, I still love the mech designs in this. It was by far the superior part of the series I do admit. The new Levitate Ship that Ernesti created is one sweet looking ride. Then there is the last bit of the episode where all of Ernesti's friends pretty much tell him to start looking around him and stop looking towards his dreams. That was a long time coming.

So for a rating I give this series a 6 out of 10.

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1153
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Knight's & Magic

Post by yazi88 » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:11 pm

I can't add anymore to what Amuro said, I read the novel version because I wanted to see if things are any better because anime adaptations can cut out a lot of things, it goes into more details about the large scale battles and there are some interesting tactics used that the anime glosses over to show the flashiness of the fights, and has a little more depth about some of the characters, but Ernesti is no different in the anime than he is in the novel, a shota mecha fanboy that is just flat.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: tHeWasTeDYouTh and 3 guests