The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:11 am

Areku wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:00 am

X_zoro wrote:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:28 am
I agree with you so much dude, I feel one thing you forgot is Characters go no where to, like I still don't understand what Hush was in this show, he had such fire in his eyes and looked to be working hard to do some great things or was going to have important role at the end, but no they
SpoilerShow
just killed him off for no reason
like what was the point ? lol
I'm fine with Hush. He was introduced as an entitled little ZOINKS who thought he was destined for greatness for no reason, then reality smacked him upside the head so hard that he saw the tears of time and realized he didn't want to be the next Katz, so he wizened up, relinquished his foolish dream of AVSx4, and re-purposed his original spirit and angst to set about doing what was actually within his ability while steadily growing stronger and developing in a more realistic way. He realized that he would never be Mikazuki, that he didn't actually want to be Mikazuki, but that he could still learn from him and live proudly as a normal MS pilot (and this was something he still had to work toward, it's not like he just said "oh well, guess I'll just settle with being a Mobile Worker pilot for life").

So it's ironic that after Mika loses the use of his leg, Hush becomes his new legs and ultimately shares Mika's fate in the final battle while fighting beside him as a respected comrade to give the rest of Tekkadan a chance at a new life, not even noticing that he'd effectively become what little-ZOINKS Hush could only dream to be. Heck, there was even a reference to his childhood hero when he took that mecha-axe to the abdomen and (presumably) lost the use of both legs.

It may have come to a tragic ending, but Hush was actually one of the better-developed characters. But, see my massive spoiler-rant about how IBO botches the portrayal of good stories.
Yeah you lost me now and I thought we agreed on something :/ here is the thing Early on he was getting a good few scenes, signalling to the audience that he would become more important. But after a few episodes defining his character and setting a goal for him, the show basically drops him entirely and he gets pretty much no more scenes https://youtu.be/f4QNx1y0OHI?t=947 ( 1 example) (about him) its like someone in the writing team thought " No this character isn't allowed to have a big moment " ( heck it looked like he was going to live through this and take care of Mika's family ) and then the other writer said "But we already had 5 episodes build up on him we can't just waste it ?! with the head writer saying " just give him an upgrade Mobile suit and let it be that" its really annoying because for all we know they most likely had plans for him but never did it.
Last edited by X_zoro on Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:12 am

But that how I feel

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Areku » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:10 pm

X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:12 am
But that how I feel
Honestly, it sounds like you're just self-agitating over the fact that Hush's development played against the shounen-style "Imma be the very best ___ 'cause I'm young and mad at the world" once reality intervened.

I would recommend you watch the show for what it actually is rather than upsetting yourself that it didn't go the way you expected. And then if you still don't like it and what it did, you'll have a better avenue to provide constructive criticism. For example, if Hush's story still doesn't jive with you after my take on it, you could criticize how he took up too much screentime early in S2 that could've been spent on other stories or improving the pacing, but as of right now it sounds like you're simply complaining that the show defied your expectations.

Just my 2 cents based on what you've said, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:53 pm

Areku wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:10 pm
X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:12 am
But that how I feel
Honestly, it sounds like you're just self-agitating over the fact that Hush's development played against the shounen-style "Imma be the very best ___ 'cause I'm young and mad at the world" once reality intervened.

I would recommend you watch the show for what it actually is rather than upsetting yourself that it didn't go the way you expected. And then if you still don't like it and what it did, you'll have a better avenue to provide constructive criticism. For example, if Hush's story still doesn't jive with you after my take on it, you could criticize how he took up too much screentime early in S2 that could've been spent on other stories or improving the pacing, but as of right now it sounds like you're simply complaining that the show defied your expectations.

Just my 2 cents based on what you've said, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything.
I can't speak for X_Zoro, but my complaints about Hush are similar to what he's described here, and don't remotely revolve around wanting him to adhere to a shounen-style plot.

The problem is that his character arc is so abrupt that he winds up not being a useful side character from a narrative standpoint. As you suggest, the time spent establishing him feels like time that would have been better-spent on the rest of the too-large cast. His story gets a narrative push, and then is just dropped. He has a consuming drive to become a mobile suit pilot, and then he just is, and the plot mostly just forgets about him until he gets a death scene. This isn't to say that he should have been a stronger pilot, or anything like that.

I've made the comparison before between Hush in IBO and Katz in Zeta. Katz is similarly eager and bad and gets himself killed, but he has a more complete character arc. He has an effect on the progressing plot of the show. While both characters are ineffective pilots, Katz is an effective side character from a narrative perspective, not because he's getting better, but because he is a player in the ongoing story. Hush really isn't. If you remove Hush entirely from Season 2, the plot doesn't change much at all. In a series that is as short on character development time as IBO is, that kind of trimming is crucial. I also agree with X_Zoro that it feels like the writers intended something more for him (again, not necessarily more in terms of him getting better as a pilot; more so more of a narrative role), but that those plans just fell through. He has the beginnings of a side-arc, but that gets aborted very early on, and from that point forward, he's just around until he dies.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:00 pm

Areku wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:10 pm
X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:12 am
But that how I feel
Honestly, it sounds like you're just self-agitating over the fact that Hush's development played against the shounen-style "Imma be the very best ___ 'cause I'm young and mad at the world" once reality intervened.

I would recommend you watch the show for what it actually is rather than upsetting yourself that it didn't go the way you expected. And then if you still don't like it and what it did, you'll have a better avenue to provide constructive criticism. For example, if Hush's story still doesn't jive with you after my take on it, you could criticize how he took up too much screentime early in S2 that could've been spent on other stories or improving the pacing, but as of right now it sounds like you're simply complaining that the show defied your expectations.

Just my 2 cents based on what you've said, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything.
That okay your not accusing me :) but on topic, I'm not saying he had to be the very best, but the show was giving the impression he was the eyes of the view ( like the link I shown ) he was someone who didn't understand Tekkadan but at the end did understand who they were,from what Reddit posted a few days ago it seemed like he was originally supposed to dig in the mine and wasn't even supposed to fight,and at the end while the rest of the world forgot about Tekkadan he would be telling the story of tekkadan to Mika's son, no source tho but I would honestly believe buy that then what we got. I do agree that if they were going to do this then time would have been greatly better spent on lets say Akihiro or heck even other older Tekkadan character who actually did have a purpose, I'm criticising because he had no purpose other then be Mika's legs and if that the case, I rather he be hathaway,being hated is at least being something rather then being nothing,but then again season 2 in my opinion has way more other issues then what I'm just stating ( people have already addressed the other stuff season 2 has ) it is funny tho last year I was defending season 1 and your defending season 2, its kinda funny how things turn out actually.

@sdwoodchuck Yeah that what I'm saying, its not even about what we wanted but what the show wanted to do, like the writing stuff were arguing about which of the new characters should have focus and then they went with Hush but then realise no lets go with julieta instead, and leave this other guy in the background, because lets be honest Julieta at the second half pretty much became the eyes of the audience.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Areku » Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:34 pm

sdwoodchuck wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:53 pm
The problem is that his character arc is so abrupt that he winds up not being a useful side character from a narrative standpoint.
I feel like what you're describing isn't so much a problem specific to Hush and where his character goes, but complications arising from the multitude of issues I described in the part I put I spoilers a few days ago. Also "the plot doesn't change without ____" could be said for most of the characters (I'm looking at you, older mechanic who everyone called Ossan but whose name I completely forget), which isn't a particularly meaningful thing to say about a character unless the show's pacing/screentime-allocation has already gone off the rails (or the character in question is largely responsible for the derailing).

Of all the "side characters that weren't important to the plot" that I can readily think of, I feel like Hush was handled the best. Not without significant issues (if anything, we needed less of Hush in early S2 so people wouldn't get the impression that he was important), but far from the go-to example of IBO's "characters that go nowhere".
X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 3:00 pm
it is funny tho last year I was defending season 1 and your defending season 2, its kinda funny how things turn out actually.
Not quite. I did write a 1800-word post blasting the show, and even the shorter mostly-positive follow-up was still pretty critical. And as it happens, my criticisms have mostly been a detailed elaboration on the things that led to me saying Akihiro's brother was badly handled in S1.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:32 pm

I found that Hush was a new recruit with a tragic past, but everyone in Tekkadan is like that, Hush was a glory hound that wanted to prove himself to be something, like his childhood friend who died being nothing. Just because we got a flashback in Hush's background, that doesn't make him that much of a important character in that he was wasted material.. he was a support character that lasted till pretty much the 2nd to last ep.

Hush learned the hard way that kind of fighting Mika and the others do. He kind of found a replacement for the leader he lost with Mika, or a person to chase after to be strong. Unlike tropes in other shows, despite all the hard work and practice, you don't always end up being a strong pilot, he was average at best and got lucky a bunch of times, especially in the Hekija which was made for space combat. He still got a couple of kills and kind of got recognition from Mika. I don't really know what else there was left for Hush from what we saw. But he did seem more competent than Katz who screwed up a LOT more than Hush. Katz let his ego get to him and got pretty arrogant a lot of times. Hush quickly learned his place and grew attached to Tekkadan.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:25 pm

@Areku I have too agree 100% less Hush would have been a lot better earlier on.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:36 pm

Yeah, I think the problem with Hush is that he is built up at all when there's no narrative payoff for the setup. We can frame it either way--either the problem is that they never pay off the setup, or the problem is that that they wasted setup on a character with no payoff--but it's poor writing from one end or the other. They could cut Hush out of the series entirely and I think it would be better for it. Heck, the entire new recruit subplot of season 2 could be axed with nothing lost, really.

There are worse-handled side-characters, I agree.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Areku » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:57 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:37 am
the AV equipped Gundams had some great acrobatics in space combat especially with the Barbatos Lupus during the fight against the Dawn Horizon Corps.
Rewatched this battle, and it was mostly a disjointed mess in terms of how position and information were conveyed visually. There were some neat few-second moments, but most of the shot transitions were harsh, jarring, or zoomed in too far, mostly without any distinguishing background/landmarks, giving the general sensation of suits/ships randomly popping into the camera's field of view (and by extension, each other). It just doesn't flow well, despite the generally-appealing movements of the suits within any given shot.

The ~30-second fight sequence between Mika and Sandoval was solid, though. I wish more of the battle was shot/presented like that. But otherwise, most of the battle felt like it changed subject/combatants/perspective too frequently for what its cinematography/choreography could support. But yeah, now that you mention it, the final Bael battle was also pretty good, probably because they could focus on just two suits for a few minutes (or otherwise use the massive Arianrhod ships as consistent landmarks while Macky went full-ACfA against the grunts).

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:53 pm

X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:25 pm
@Areku I have too agree 100% less Hush would have been a lot better earlier on.
This is assuming that they knew what they were doing with him from the beginning until the end of S2 :lol: I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but if I had to pun my tinfoil hat on it reeks eerily of GSD Fukuda/Morosawa nonsense.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:15 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:53 pm
X_zoro wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:25 pm
@Areku I have too agree 100% less Hush would have been a lot better earlier on.
This is assuming that they knew what they were doing with him from the beginning until the end of S2 :lol: I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but if I had to pun my tinfoil hat on it reeks eerily of GSD Fukuda/Morosawa nonsense.
Like what happen with Shin ? back door BS is most likely what it is, because I'm currently watching Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse ,and The MC ? ( I don't know since the first 2 episodes focus on somebody else ) and his lot like Hush in the sense that, he start out as an ass hole and was a complete noob using a TSF but after some practice and a lot of people giving him ZOINKS, he got pretty good, I'll be the first to say the show isn't very good but it handles ideas and characters a little better IBO, at least doesn't feel they drop a character's story arc.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:50 pm

X_zoro, I think you're putting too much faith into Hush who was a side character to begin with... plus with Shin and Yuuya from Total Eclipse, they were established as the main characters to begin with...

Seed Destiny is a special type of screwed up writing that is in a special section of its own compared to other shows with bad writing...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:25 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:50 pm
X_zoro, I think you're putting too much faith into Hush who was a side character to begin with... plus with Shin and Yuuya from Total Eclipse, they were established as the main characters to begin with...
Opinions are opinions, but the first handful episodes of S2 clearly, objectively shows that Hush was built up to be more than merely a side character. But IF the directors and writers did, in fact, have Hush turn out to be merely a side character from the beginning, then all that focus in Early S2 is then nothing but a waste of time, about as much of a waste of time dedicating 2-1/2 episodes to that useless Aston and Takaki arc.

TL;DR either way writers dropped the ball on Hush

Oh, and GSD had plently of other problems (stock footages, retread of stuff from GS) but as far as character development stagnations, IBO is right up there with GSD, IMO.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:40 pm

Fair enough, you make a good point with how Hush was built up in the beginning, more so than Shino was in the whole show.

Although I can't compare GSD to IBO, as far character development/stagnation, Kira and the entire returning cast of Seed were written far worse as their development was just recycled from Seed. Kira was a flat and Athrun was in a hamster wheel retreading his character from Seed. Cagalli was completely dropped and the Mu reveal as Neo was a insult in general. None of that really worked out in the end, while I think in IBO there was something atleast resembling a resolution with the surviving characters and their arcs.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:06 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:50 pm
X_zoro, I think you're putting too much faith into Hush who was a side character to begin with... plus with Shin and Yuuya from Total Eclipse, they were established as the main characters to begin with...

Seed Destiny is a special type of screwed up writing that is in a special section of its own compared to other shows with bad writing...
I know I'm just a little salty about it. given how I loved season 1 and I had a lot of high expections from season 2, I guess I wouldn't have cared as much if we didn't get that hush stuff.

( it also doesn't help his the first new face we season in episode 1 of season 2)

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:09 pm

Give it time... I was in a similar place at the end of Destiny... but there far more problems back when that show finished.. its all good. I only got closure with Destiny thanks to the SRW games especially Z1. lol

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by X_zoro » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:35 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:09 pm
Give it time... I was in a similar place at the end of Destiny... but there far more problems back when that show finished.. its all good. I only got closure with Destiny thanks to the SRW games especially Z1. lol
LOL Yeah :) here is hoping the Next SRW game fixes some of the stuff in IBO season 2

( my copy of V is coming tomorrow so I'm looking forward to that)

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Areku » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:39 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:09 pm
I only got closure with Destiny thanks to the SRW games especially Z1. lol
I've never played SRW, but I found closure/catharsis in ATEoGSD.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:36 pm

Areku wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:39 pm
yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:09 pm
I only got closure with Destiny thanks to the SRW games especially Z1. lol
I've never played SRW, but I found closure/catharsis in ATEoGSD.
WdYMbATEoGSD? PE

Found another fan art on Pixiv and it give interesting idea. If they made sequel and decide not to go with obvious choice of Ride's story, then it's likely take place at least over a decade later. Featuring McGillis Jr. who grow up listen to the idealized story of his father (told by his half-crazy mother).

I like the idea since I'm pretty sure few of you hicup from reading it.
My girlfriend was a loli.

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