The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

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The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by ShadowCell » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:48 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:45 pm
SNT1 wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:32 pm
^It's all fine and dandy if she realized that doing what she's done now is better, than a political figurehead, I'm not arguing that, but my point is, if that's the case, then she should no longer be relevant to Tekkadan and to the main story. Shes otherwise hogging screentime.

Again I ask, what has Kudelia done in S2 to advance the story in a meaningful way?
Her story arc was done in season 1, she is a supporting character now... she accomplished her goal on Earth and is working on her company to help Mars... She shows up here and there but isn't a central focus on the plot... That doesn't have to mean her character is a drag on the show or is useless... She still has ties to Tekkadan and wants to support them anyway she can. Either way, your main complaint is characters hogging screentime when you don't really like most of the characters to begin with.... I don't know what expectations you're looking for when they aren't going to happen with this show given what we've seen so far.

She was the reason the Dawn Horizon Corps attacked Tekkadan but that is the only direct plotline she was in with season 2. She also mostly shows up when we see Tekkadan on Mars this season.
lol whoops

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:57 pm

Umm... this last quote is from the last mecha thread for IBO... not the last anime thread.

But nice to get a new thread! 3 eps left, and much more despair to come for Tekkadan and others!

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by ShadowCell » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:22 am

oh well um OH MY GOD LOOK SO MANY MONKEYS *flee*

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:33 am

ShadowCell wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:22 am
oh well um OH MY GOD LOOK SO MANY MONKEYS *flee*
Thank you for the new thread and the correction Shadowcell!

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:34 am

Continuing the Kudelia discussion, people seem to be weirdly conflating "getting things done" or "accomplishing goals" with character development. The majority of her screen time in Season 1 is a bunch of "am I doing the right thing" self doubt, which is anime easy-mode for pathos. There's no problem with self doubt, but there's no indication of her actually overcoming this. There's no indication that she actually comprehends or deals with the reality of her situation in any kind of hands-on way. She just doubts, doubts, doubts--meanwhile everybody else keeps talking KUDELIA AINA BERNSTEIN, and her position as a leader, and her work fighting for equality, and there's none of this on screen. There's just a anxious, nervous, self-doubting little girl, until the plot needs her to be strong, and then suddenly she has a backbone and she'll give a rousing speech, and everybody goes "whoa," and I guess the audience is supposed to think this is compelling development? It's nonsense. It's like the teen movie where the nerdy girl gets a makeover that consists of losing her glasses and letting her hair down, and suddenly she's a whole different person; Kudelia goes from weak, anxious, and ineffectual to charismatic leader based on nothing at all, except the plot demanding it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:21 am

You know, the Mars Commander is right, McGilis simply has incredible luck. Start by the commander himself, then Rustal just refuse Orga's proposal to hand him over. I just hope whatever business he has would contribute to the upcoming battle.

I laugh when Iok volunteer in upcoming operation and Rustal just tell him no. Too bad for him since it look like Iok mage to convince him afterall.

Kudelia's reaction to news of Mika&Atra's baby making is nice, we need a ittle mood lift.

There's a chance that Gaelio will realize he's fighting for wrong reason. Sadly, the only scenario I can think would come at the expense of Ride. Supposely Riden-Go's Ahab reactor is the same as Ryusei-Go (II)'s, which used to belong to Crank's Graze. Maybe Gaelio has perfect chance to snipe Bael with KEP, only for "Ein" to aim at Riden-Go instead. It would be good opportunity for him to realize how revenge make people blind.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by sdwoodchuck » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:55 am

I definitely expect a change from Gaelio. He's being groomed right now as a kind of fallen knight by the writers. He recently made a comment to Julieta that she reminds him of Ein, but she won't accept the procedure that she finds unethical. I think with this as a frame to view his current situation with the actual Ein, Gaelio is going to be made aware of the trap of revenge, which Ein fell into, and which he's now falling into. He's going to have that moment of realization that revenge makes you less human and that's going to be the impetus for him to let go of Ein's revenge and his own. The actual moment that does it may play out exactly as you describe though--I hadn't thought of that, but it's entirely plausible. I actually suspect that the real impetus will be the death of Julieta. I expect she'll die because of being just outclassed, but Gaelio will note that she's dying the nobler death, remaining true to her humanity, rather than sacrificing that in the name of revenge as Ein did, and as he's on the path to do.

With this realization under his belt, I half expect him to turn on Rustal when he witnesses Rustal's approach to Tekkadan. I can't see him throwing his lot in with McGillis though; no matter how much he lets go of revenge, I can't see him backing that power-hungry rat, but since Tekkadan is likely to split with McGillis in the next couple episodes as well, I could see him throwing in with Tekkadan against both Rustal and McGillis, or just against McGillis because Rustal is gonna have his red-herring death soon, and likely in the same battle that sees Gaelio lose his revenge mindset.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:37 am

There's been some commentary in the previous thread that, over the course of the season(and, in fact, both seasons), Orga has remained completely static. I completely agree with that, but I'd like to comment that it's one of two things this season in particular that I have a main problem with.
Not just Orga, but most characters have been totally static, receiving little to no development. There's been a little bit of development of Mika beyond his mindset of "Hey, Orga, who do you need me to kill the **** out of next?", but nowhere nearly enough.
In the first season, the only one to really get all that much development was second-stringer Akihiro during and immediately following the Brewers arc, and a little bit after that once the Turbines turned up. We saw a bit of how that has changed his character afterwards up into this season including and following the Arbrau/SAU arc, but it went nowhere because after that the bodies started to drop indiscriminately.
The only character to have gotten any meaningful development at all this season was Takaki during the aforementioned Arbrau arc IMO, but rather than do anything meaningful in the long term, he cashed in his chips and got out - which is actually fine with me, because after what he's gone through, it makes sense IMO. BUT it's a real shame all the same.

Same thing goes for the villains's side. There is no character on that side of the narrative IMO that has been developed in any meaningful way, with the net result being that they are singularly uninteresting characters. I'm willing to allow Gaelio as the sole exception to the rule, because we have seen a little bit of development with him beyond "McGillis screwed me, I want revenge", and we knew quite a lot about his story already from S1 so it's much easier to understand and sympathize with him.
Julia is basically Ein 2.0, but we know nothing about her motivations and what drives her beyond "For Rustal-sama", whereas with Ein, we knew his motivation and enough about his background to at least make him mildly interesting beyond his single-minded desire for revenge. Not so for Julia, who's about as interesting to me as the Skittle Squad from 00.
As for Rustal, yeah, he's a villainous manipulative bastard and that's fine, as long as there's more substance to the character beyond that - to use one example, what made Lelouch Lamperouge interesting for most of Code Geass to me wasn't just his Magnificent Bastardry, but the complexity of his character and the in-depth look at his motivations and what drove him to do the things he did. And that is completely absent with Rustal, which leaves him quite possibly as the most singularly uninteresting character in the cast.
And don't even get me started on Idiok. That guy should have died so many times already that it's almost insulting that he's still around, while more and more of the protagonists - underdeveloped and uninteresting as many were - are being killed off.

The biggest dropped ball this season IMO, though, is McGillis. Dear LORD, McGillis. For the entirety of Season 1 and much of Season 2, McGillis was ambiguous. We knew he had something he was planning, and he talked about reforming the corrupt Gjallarhorn, so his actions and his manipulations, and his apparent interest in the AV System despite the prohibition by Gjallarhorn and attendant prejudice made for some very interesting storytelling because of what it could be leading up to.

And then we get to the end, and his entire plan boils down to "I has Gundam, obey me now."
It's incredibly cliché and incredibly disappointing, because it squanders what was probably to me the most intriguing narrative arc of the series in favor of a hackneyed and downright moronic power grab.
I have other problems with this season, and particularly with the last few episodes, but frankly, these are my main issues with the season so far.

I will watch the last few episodes because I do want to see how it ends, but all in all, this season IMO has been substantially inferior to the first season overall.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:37 am
In the first season, the only one to really get all that much development was second-stringer Akihiro during and immediately following the Brewers arc, and a little bit after that once the Turbines turned up. We saw a bit of how that has changed his character afterwards up into this season including and following the Arbrau/SAU arc, but it went nowhere because after that the bodies started to drop indiscriminately.
I guess you only limited to Tekkadan's side. Else it's definitely Kudelia. Serious, while S2 does turn her from Relena to Marina, she's clearly best developed as character in S1.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SonicSP » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:28 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:37 am
And then we get to the end, and his entire plan boils down to "I has Gundam, obey me now."
It's incredibly cliché and incredibly disappointing, because it squanders what was probably to me the most intriguing narrative arc of the series in favor of a hackneyed and downright moronic power grab.
McGillis plan is actually pretty good, the problem is that Gaelio being alive and well more or less screws it, since it was both a legal and symbolic play.

Him being an idiot was way back in S1, where not only didn't spend proper time killing Gaelio but actually talked to him. Even if he failed the first part, him doing the second is what undid it.

McGillis problems is more or less traced because he failed to kill Gaelio, everything from Arionhod 100% knowing and this is countering his every move throughout the season is based on that.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:23 pm

I'll give you that - McGillis not taking the time to make 100% certain Gaelio was dead, especially after (IMO, unnecessarily) revealing himself, was dumb.
But setting aside the legality and symbolism of the Bael gambit, I still think it's a stupid plan because he had absolutely no guarantee that it would work - and lo and behold, it didn't work - Rustal didn't just roll over and accept it, meaning that he is now opposed by a massively superior military force, and of course the Mars forces - which also fall under the jurisdiction of Rustal's Arianrhod Fleet - aren't backing him. Considering the clearly meticulous planning that got him, through S1, in the position that we see him in as S2's beginning - down to the use of an alias and the Montag Company as a proxy to move without arousing suspicion from Gjallarhorn - to me it shows a spectacular lack of planning and foresight that is borderline idiotic. And that's really my main gripe about it.
Apart from the entire concept being hackneyed, regardless of the in-universe justification for it.
Kuruni wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 pm
I guess you only limited to Tekkadan's side. Else it's definitely Kudelia. Serious, while S2 does turn her from Relena to Marina, she's clearly best developed as character in S1.
Touché. I'll admit that - outside the Tekkadan crew, Kudelia in S1 did get pretty good development. Not so in S2, but then again in S2 she was a very minor character, so that doesn't bother me as much. Come to think of it, that's probably why it slipped my mind, as it's been quite a while since I saw S1.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Zeonista » Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:56 pm

ShadowCell wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:22 am
oh well um OH MY GOD LOOK SO MANY MONKEYS *flee*
Yes, there is quite a lot of monkey business in IBO! :D

Well, it is almost all over except the shouting & weeping among the fans. Lots of that happening already in the the threads. :P I give it 1 episode for Meaningful Farewells and a launch into action, and for Mc Gillis to shake 1 final ace out of his sleeve into his hand. Then we get 1.75 episodes of final subplot resolution as only Gundam can deliver & save SNT1 from characterization deficit, then the Big FInish, and .25 episode of epilog. The end! (Of course given how much this anime has loved its down-combat bits, it might take a single episode to give meaningful wrap-up to everyone.) I liked this last-gasp, last-chance episode and the final breath before the plunge into oblivion. Ah, Oblivion...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc0hmpr ... 2s&index=5
It was a good final-positioning episode, and got everyone in place for the final contest. Ready or not, here comes Gjallarhorn!

Scapegoat: Truth in the episode titling! Remember what I said last time about Rustal Elion's strategic goal? WInners get to write the history books, and the Establishment has a story about a greedy traitor who enjoyed the support of kill-crazy pirates from Mars.
To die!: Orga and Rustal do the President & alien scene from ID4. Orga is willing to betray himself, his ideals, and his ally to save his boys. Rustal confidently refuses abject surrender....and guarantees a bloodbath.
Eugene: Good save on hauling Orga out of the Pit of Despair. He shows in that scene how he has shone all the way through Season 2. He & Akihiro have come a long way from their first appearances in Season 1.
Blaze of Glory III: Since Rustal's script for the end of all this trouble doesn't allow for honorable surrender, Tekkadan & McGIllis' faction have nothing left to lose but their lives, with berserker baby-daddy Mikazuki leading them forwards. I don't think Rustal-sama understands how the situation could literally explode in his face.
The turn of Fortune's Wheel: When's the last time I heard that idea presented in popular entertainment? An oldie but a goodie, and the Martian Gjallarhorn head understands-unlike Rustal Elion-that McGillis has made something out of nothing before, Tekkadan still has a winning record, and Fortune can favor the bold, even at long odds.
Alamo Speech: Good one by Orga, with the precedent at hand. ;) Having a few of the Tekkadan members walk away was a good touch, even if 100% would have been satisfactory. Not everyone is willing to go the distance, and it shouldn't be held against them either.
The Return of Kudelia: Missed you princess, but not as much as SNT1 or Atra. :lol:
Make a baby with Mika-kun too!: Never change, Atra. Harem antics aside, the romance with its parallel development was a strong point for this series. It kept Mikazuki from being a soulless killbot, Atra from being the disconnected childhood friend, and Kudelia from being the untouchable ideal. The three-way hug was a stron and WAFF scene together.
Home run!: Speaking of which... Mikazuki joins the small select list of Gundam pilots with this in-show achievement. ;)
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:46 pm

Dark Duel wrote:But setting aside the legality and symbolism of the Bael gambit, I still think it's a stupid plan because he had absolutely no guarantee that it would work
I think had he actually killed Gaelio he wouldn't have to pull out the Bael move so early and instead would have continued to increase his influence on the Seven Stars (read: secretly, kill them or have them killed or otherwise move out of the way). Remember he had 3 out of 7 Stars covered and was seemingly in good standing. Once he had all the Seven Stars taken care of, Bael would have just been icing.

TL;DR He should have killed Gaelio.

But he didn't, so at least I can look forward to a third duel between McG and Gaelio.
Zeonista wrote:Then we get 1.75 episodes of final subplot resolution as only Gundam can deliver & save SNT1 from characterization deficit
There's 3 episodes left, meaning we can still get one more background/flashback episode from some mid-bottom tier character like Dane or Radice, have them promptly killed off (because we only flesh out characters in IBO right before they bite the dust), have Orga cry again and Eugene slap his ZOINKS silly saying "stop trying to be cool!" and then Mika bashes antagonist brutally.

Oh yeah, there's still time.

Also, don't get me wrong, like I said we still haven't seen Vidar, or Kimaris Vidar and Bael go full tilt like the Barbatos, and it's the element I look forward to the most so despite my reservations about some things I am eagerly anticipating the last three!
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:14 pm

Watch there be a shopping episode with Mika getting dragged along to look at pregnancy-friendly dresses with Atra and Kudelia, with maybe even a Kudelia impersonator with bad Engrish thrown into the mix.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by SNT1 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:27 pm

Amion wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:14 pm
Watch there be a shopping episode with Mika getting dragged along to look at pregnancy-friendly dresses with Atra and Kudelia, with maybe even a Kudelia impersonator with bad Engrish thrown into the mix.
Understood the reference, but would be ok if Atra gets offed by a random dude in the process, causing Mika to give no Fs anymore and singlehandedly kill of Gjallahorn while being absorbed by Barbatos in a 400% sync ratio in the process
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by AmuroNT1 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:31 pm

Calm down with that fridge there, Major Force.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Kuruni » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:58 am

Part of me want Mika to be completely absorbed into Barbatos (shortly after confirmation that Akieru is really in Bael). Then the final episode would be 10+ years later, new conflict, and end with Atra's child saved by Barbatos. It's only the beginning :mrgreen: .

BTW, I think Orga going to bite the dust next. Mostly because the notion of how everyone will follow him regardless of their name.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Amion » Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:18 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:27 pm
Amion wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:14 pm
Watch there be a shopping episode with Mika getting dragged along to look at pregnancy-friendly dresses with Atra and Kudelia, with maybe even a Kudelia impersonator with bad Engrish thrown into the mix.
Understood the reference, but would be ok if Atra gets offed by a random dude in the process, causing Mika to give no Fs anymore and singlehandedly kill of Gjallahorn while being absorbed by Barbatos in a 400% sync ratio in the process
But then we'd be complaining about a reused plot device. That, and how deadly IBO storefronts are. Granted, that's actually true to life, as military vehicles are nano-laminate armored, bust still. I think Laughter's murder was the most shocking death in anime I can recall in years. Don't bring up the trauma. :x

Yes, I've fantasied a bit about a similar scenario with Barbatos, Kuruni. Wish they'd make it happen. Who knows? Instead of a third season, we might just get a straight up sequel, one hopefully better plotted...

Orga dying... I still think that it's 50-50. Wait for a flashback of death. That would clinch it. I for one think only one of the main duo will parish. Preferably that'd be Mika, since that would likely mean Barbatosification.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by Calubin_175 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:14 pm

I am calling for a Spartacus/300 style last stand.

A giant net will be thrown in to immobilise Barbatos and then a volley of Dainsleifs will impale every Tekkadan mobile suit.

The final shot is of all impaled MS wreckages.

The pregnant women and children escape with Hush(and maybe Iok offers these civilian safe passage if he redeems himself).

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

Post by MarshalBraginsky » Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:34 pm

Calubin_175 wrote:
Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:14 pm
I am calling for a Spartacus/300 style last stand.

A giant net will be thrown in to immobilise Barbatos and then a volley of Dainsleifs will impale every Tekkadan mobile suit.

The final shot is of all impaled MS wreckages.

The pregnant women and children escape with Hush(and maybe Iok offers these civilian safe passage if he redeems himself).
Knowing Id-Iok, he might simply kill them out of sheer insanity. I guess even Atra and Kudelia might not be spared from Gjallarhorn's Dainslef beatdown.

I'm not sure if G Tekketsu might have the dubious honor of being one of the two Gundam shows where the antagonist actually wins in this case (Gundam 0083 had Anavel Gato completing his objectives and defeating Kou Uraki) should Tekkadan end up losing to Gjallarhorn.

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