The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk IV

[Soma Taozi]

Except Amon, if Urobuchi does a Gundam show he will only be fully on board for one season (ie: he will write the scripts). And that will be a GREAT season, full of philosophical discussions and world-building...however, the second season will happen with him taking more of an administration role...and it will ruin everything.

Because...you know...Psycho Pass 2 and Aldnoah Zero Season 2 were both things that happened. Although I suppose we could just pretend the sequels never happened...

Spoiler

Anyway, bit of a downer ending, but still a fairly happy ending for the survivors. I enjoyed IBO and while it is not my favorite Gundam series, it is above average on my list. Also, as always, it got new people into Gundam. Which is always a positive in my book.

On a side note, can I just say that it is nice that a competent female pilot survived the series? I haven't seen that since Soma in 00.

And while I would love to get into debates with people about this series merits...a few of you have written things that gets this girl's debating blood pumping...I unfortunately don't have the time.

[SNT1]

I thought April Fool's was over; I almost saw it coming but still didn't expect this joke of an ending

Spoiler

WINNER: Rustal Elion. Kind of a 180 from the viewer's PoV that he would be the one to end Human Debris and make Mars independent. What I do buy though, that he's a hero; from others' point of view he squashed an insurgent extremist rebellion and their mercenary lackeys, nothing more to it.

LOSER: Mika and Akihiro. I did like the way they went full throttle, though I wish Gusion had done the red eye as well. They fought well, the BLR was absolutely feral, but in the end Dainsleif-Ex Machina's ends them, thus they're losers.

WINNER: The rest of Tekkadan. Looks like they got to live fairly normal lives.

LOSER: Iok. An honorable guy until the end. Too bad his luck ran out when Akihiro found out who he was. Satisfying.

WINNER: Gaelio and Julietta. Wouldn't be surprised if Gaelio had a hand in Rustal's "reformation" thanks to him finally "understanding" McGillis. Julietta a big damn war hero. And maybe because I think like The Office's Michael Scott at times: "I like you better with a little more meat on you." ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

LOSER: Nobliss. I like the way this one ended, a very gangster way.

Anyways, the ending still kinda sucked overall. Actually, the last 6 episodes blew chunks. Almost as bad as a Code Geass R2 meltdown.

-I mean, really, show us some more in-depth-cockpit shots of impaled pilots and their last dying words! It seriously got old to the point that I don't even care or feel sorry anymore. It felt artificial. Say what you want about "beam spam" (why is this even a bad word in some Gundam fan circles nowadays??) but sometimes I just like to see certain pilots get blown the eff off without needing to hear their forcibly dramatic dying words.

-I know it's just me, but there's something bugging me about this ending: Main heroes die, bad guys destroy them, bad guys somehow reform to what the good guys wanted anyways, and all is good. It's a very simplistic summary admittedly, but it doesn't sit right with me, and I don't like it.

-Almost as bad as "Gundams were never seen again" ending. Super rushed epilogue. Maybe a good thing if a potential sequel featured Tekkadan, because I'm tired of Tekkadan.

Overall, I give S2 a 5.5/10, IBO overall maybe a 7/10
+Fantastic setting.
+Fantastic tech concepts.
+Great lore, I would like to find out more about Agnika and their MA exploits.
+Great MS battles.
-Crappy character development, some remained one dimensiona for the most part and some have had great potential only to be halfway useless *coughHushcough*
-Death flags a thing. Never have I seen a show where a flashback more apparent than any other show announces to the world that they're dead shortly after.
-Gruesome pilot death scenes. Not because they were gruesome, but because they overdid it.
-episodes between battles. I don't care about you daily lives, random Tekkadan guy.
-Dainsleif Ex-Machina. I guess it's ok to use now?
-Aston/takaki arc. Almost as bad as S1's Teiwaz arc of no MS battles for 3 episodes straight, in S2 we have 3 straight episodes of these idiots as if the writers are forcing us to care and feel about them. We got Galan Mossa here which is a cool character but ultimately still wasted.
---------------------------------

Sadly, I still support this show because of awesome Gunpla.

Now, as for sequels, like I said as long as there is no Tekkadan (and maybe a different director?) I would be more than open to the possibility. I would like to see an mini-OVA about a PMC-like group not unlike Tekkadan, who has also salvaged their Gundam frame, and their main thing is awakening Mobile Armors and killing them like it's a damn sport. I need more MA's in IBOverse.

[sdwoodchuck]

-I mean, really, show us some more in-depth-cockpit shots of impaled pilots and their last dying words! It seriously got old to the point that I don't even care or feel sorry anymore. It felt artificial. Say what you want about "beam spam" (why is this even a bad word in some Gundam fan circles nowadays??) but sometimes I just like to see certain pilots get blown the eff off without needing to hear their forcibly dramatic dying words.

Spoiler

I was rolling my eyes by the end of the fight scene. If not for all of the many cockpit death nonologues throughout the series, it might have had some impact, but it almost seemed like they were meeting a quota. Mikazuki, Akihiro, and Iok all get overlapping incoherent death monologues. It completely undermines the tone of the scene.

Spoiler

-I know it's just me, but there's something bugging me about this ending: Main heroes die, bad guys destroy them, bad guys somehow reform to what the good guys wanted anyways, and all is good. It's a very simplistic summary admittedly, but it doesn't sit right with me, and I don't like it.

Spoiler

Definitely not just you. So as it turns out, both sides that wanted to lead the world were ridiculously corrupt and untrustworthy in their quest for power, but whichever won, it would have turned out for the best anyway? That's one way to completely deflate the sense of conflict.

[AmuroNT1]

Except Amon, if Urobuchi does a Gundam show he will only be fully on board for one season (ie: he will write the scripts). And that will be a GREAT season, full of philosophical discussions and world-building...however, the second season will happen with him taking more of an administration role...and it will ruin everything.

Because...you know...Psycho Pass 2 and Aldnoah Zero Season 2 were both things that happened. Although I suppose we could just pretend the sequels never happened...

Hey, Urobuchi can do full 50-episode series too, just watch Kamen Rider Gaim. Even if you aren't normally a Tokusatsu fan, if you like his work it's definitely worth a watch. Excellent storytelling, interesting characters, a good balance of humor and drama...eventually you kinda stop noticing the fact that it's a show about street dancers transforming into fruit-armored samurai.

[yazi88]

Urobuchi also wrote Gargantia and that was a really good show too.

[latenlazy]

-I know it's just me, but there's something bugging me about this ending: Main heroes die, bad guys destroy them, bad guys somehow reform to what the good guys wanted anyways, and all is good. It's a very simplistic summary admittedly, but it doesn't sit right with me, and I don't like it.

How Rustal is portrayed in the end is the same conceit every oppressor ever sells as moral justification for their actions. We will do what's right with our power. See that wasn't so bad. Ignore that we've already shown we're willing to do terrible corrupt things to grab and stay in power. Platitudes for all the people who had to die to make this happen, unfortunately, but look it wasn't all for naught! Except we'll make sure they're forgotten or seen as villains in history. How romantic.

[AmuroNT1]

Anyway, I suppose I might as well throw my thoughts in here too.

Spoiler

Generally, I was okay with how the show ended. As people pointed out, the series started going in Yakuza-esque directions once Tekkadan joined Teiwaz, and even moreso in the second season when Orga started imitating Naze. Well, as any fan of mafia movies can tell you, those don't end well. Sometimes you go down fighting like Scarface, and sometimes you go down like a chump like Sonny Corleone, but either way, you're going down.

Besides that, IBO offered a darker but more realistic take on one of the tropes that Gundam has been using and abusing for a very long time: the idea that all you need to take on a massive, well-organized military force is a faction of scrappy underdogs with a couple of ace pilots. It's happened in most Gundam shows, going all the way back to White Base and its three MS defeating Zeon forces with numerical and materiel superiority and much more experience. Only this time...that doesn't happen. Guts and passion only get you so far.

But really, most of the characters seemed to know this. I think Mikazuki and Akihiro knew that they weren't making it out alive even if their friends did. I mean what, did you think Gjallarhorn was going to let the two "demon Gundams" run back into their base unopposed? Then they abandon the Gundams to Gjallarhorn and run for Chryse? No, there was only one way this was going to end.

Ultimately, Orga's grasp exceeded his reach: McGillis convinced him that he needed to be King of Mars to make a good life for his little brothers, but just like Mika realized in his final moments, they didn't have to go that far. They were happy as a family, and would have been happy whether they were soldiering or in more legitimate lines of work as we saw in the epilogue. If he'd realized that earlier, maybe this tragedy could have been averted.

A lot of people seem to think the ending was unrealistically happy, but really it wasn't. A good portion of the Tekkadan "family" died, and their name became a curse thanks to Gjallarhorn. The others made it away safely, but they're always going to be carrying that burden. Some will handle it well; others, like Ride, not so much.

As for smaller points...

-Not a good sign when the traditional "play the opening over the final episode" includes footage of your guys dying...but then that's the kind of show IBO has always been.

-Rustal "winning" in the end left kind of a sour taste in my mouth, but sadly that's how the world works sometimes. Just because someone is rotten or evil doesn't mean they're going to suffer or die "just because". Karma doesn't operate on speed-dial. Besides, the only people who could potentially have paid him back were Gaelio (who as we saw in the epilogue was apparently pretty badly injured) or Julietta (but we knew that she was still loyal to him). We weren't going to get an Endless Waltz ending where a random rank-and-file Gjallarhorn soldier finally gets fed up and shoots him in the head.

-I wonder if Japanese Twitter will be satisfied with the way Iok died. He did what he usually did: acted stupid (charging in blindly) and cruel (beating on Akihiro's badly damaged Gundam), and he got his comeuppance in a slow, painful way at the hands of one of the people who was hurt most by his gutless scheming. As someone who couldn't stand Iok, that was probably the best we could have hoped for, short of him contracting Space-Syphilis or something.

-Only now at the end do we realize that it was Julietta, not Kudelia, who was destined to be the "Maiden of Revolution". She's being groomed to take over Gjallarhorn after Rustal retires, and as seen in her talk with Gaelio she realizes that Tekkadan weren't monsters or demons, but kids who just wanted peace and happiness and were willing to fight to the bitter end to achieve it. Maybe from these experiences she'll become the reconciliatory leader the Post Disaster era needs.

-I guess Gaelio got messed up worse than we thought if he's still in a wheelchair years later. Maybe it's a side-effect of the Alaya Type-E allowing Ein to take control over his body? People mentioned that after the fight last week the AV-E was sparking and looked overtaxed. Still, it did make me laugh seeing him having a mellower personality again, and even kind of flirting with Julietta.

-At the very least, I'm glad Nobliss finally got some comeuppance for all the scheming he's done. And for real chuckles, he gets taken out in a toilet. It's just tragic that this indicates Ride and a few other Tekkadan kids can't let go of their grudges and will let that anger shape the rest of their lives.

-I'm kind of surprised that people haven't started speculating that Kudelia and Atra are a couple in the end, since they were basically acting like Akatsuki's two moms in the final scene there. Personally I don't think it goes that far; Kudelia's more like the aunt who's really close to Mom, so she gets treated like another mother.

-C'mon writers, you can't just tease us by mentioning Cookie and Cracker and not letting us see the young women they've grown into. That's just cruel. Do it for Biscuit.

[Calubin_175]

I love the reversals of the S1 ending.

Gaelio killing McGliss.

Guts getting killed by multiple mooks.

Mika being slayed as the devil by Julietta, which paralleled the devil Graze Ein in S1.

Just as MA were terrifying, the equally terrifying countermeasures against them, the AV system Gundams and Dainsleifs, were the driving forces of this recent conflict.

[yazi88]

Anyway, I suppose I might as well throw my thoughts in here too.

Spoiler

Generally, I was okay with how the show ended. As people pointed out, the series started going in Yakuza-esque directions once Tekkadan joined Teiwaz, and even moreso in the second season when Orga started imitating Naze. Well, as any fan of mafia movies can tell you, those don't end well. Sometimes you go down fighting like Scarface, and sometimes you go down like a chump like Sonny Corleone, but either way, you're going down.

Besides that, IBO offered a darker but more realistic take on one of the tropes that Gundam has been using and abusing for a very long time: the idea that all you need to take on a massive, well-organized military force is a faction of scrappy underdogs with a couple of ace pilots. It's happened in most Gundam shows, going all the way back to White Base and its three MS defeating Zeon forces with numerical and materiel superiority and much more experience. Only this time...that doesn't happen. Guts and passion only get you so far.

But really, most of the characters seemed to know this. I think Mikazuki and Akihiro knew that they weren't making it out alive even if their friends did. I mean what, did you think Gjallarhorn was going to let the two "demon Gundams" run back into their base unopposed? Then they abandon the Gundams to Gjallarhorn and run for Chryse? No, there was only one way this was going to end.

Ultimately, Orga's grasp exceeded his reach: McGillis convinced him that he needed to be King of Mars to make a good life for his little brothers, but just like Mika realized in his final moments, they didn't have to go that far. They were happy as a family, and would have been happy whether they were soldiering or in more legitimate lines of work as we saw in the epilogue. If he'd realized that earlier, maybe this tragedy could have been averted.

A lot of people seem to think the ending was unrealistically happy, but really it wasn't. A good portion of the Tekkadan "family" died, and their name became a curse thanks to Gjallarhorn. The others made it away safely, but they're always going to be carrying that burden. Some will handle it well; others, like Ride, not so much.

As for smaller points...

-Not a good sign when the traditional "play the opening over the final episode" includes footage of your guys dying...but then that's the kind of show IBO has always been.

-Rustal "winning" in the end left kind of a sour taste in my mouth, but sadly that's how the world works sometimes. Just because someone is rotten or evil doesn't mean they're going to suffer or die "just because". Karma doesn't operate on speed-dial. Besides, the only people who could potentially have paid him back were Gaelio (who as we saw in the epilogue was apparently pretty badly injured) or Julietta (but we knew that she was still loyal to him). We weren't going to get an Endless Waltz ending where a random rank-and-file Gjallarhorn soldier finally gets fed up and shoots him in the head.

-I wonder if Japanese Twitter will be satisfied with the way Iok died. He did what he usually did: acted stupid (charging in blindly) and cruel (beating on Akihiro's badly damaged Gundam), and he got his comeuppance in a slow, painful way at the hands of one of the people who was hurt most by his gutless scheming. As someone who couldn't stand Iok, that was probably the best we could have hoped for, short of him contracting Space-Syphilis or something.

-Only now at the end do we realize that it was Julietta, not Kudelia, who was destined to be the "Maiden of Revolution". She's being groomed to take over Gjallarhorn after Rustal retires, and as seen in her talk with Gaelio she realizes that Tekkadan weren't monsters or demons, but kids who just wanted peace and happiness and were willing to fight to the bitter end to achieve it. Maybe from these experiences she'll become the reconciliatory leader the Post Disaster era needs.

-I guess Gaelio got messed up worse than we thought if he's still in a wheelchair years later. Maybe it's a side-effect of the Alaya Type-E allowing Ein to take control over his body? People mentioned that after the fight last week the AV-E was sparking and looked overtaxed. Still, it did make me laugh seeing him having a mellower personality again, and even kind of flirting with Julietta.

-At the very least, I'm glad Nobliss finally got some comeuppance for all the scheming he's done. And for real chuckles, he gets taken out in a toilet. It's just tragic that this indicates Ride and a few other Tekkadan kids can't let go of their grudges and will let that anger shape the rest of their lives.

-I'm kind of surprised that people haven't started speculating that Kudelia and Atra are a couple in the end, since they were basically acting like Akatsuki's two moms in the final scene there. Personally I don't think it goes that far; Kudelia's more like the aunt who's really close to Mom, so she gets treated like another mother.

-C'mon writers, you can't just tease us by mentioning Cookie and Cracker and not letting us see the young women they've grown into. That's just cruel. Do it for Biscuit.

Thank you, I fully agree with you, it was a more realistic outcome more than anything else, but left a bad taste too.. a bitter pill to swallow.

[latenlazy]

A lot of people seem to think the ending was unrealistically happy, but really it wasn't.

How the show chooses to portray the ending, morally and tonally, is different from its objective facts. For example, Gaelio and Julietta are pretty complicit in Rustal's corrupt machination, and they're largely rewarded for it. Rustal himself comes away not only unpunished, but stronger. The narration expresses some degree of somber satisfaction to this outcome, as if we should entrust this person and the system he's marshaled, when series goes out of the way to convince us of just how untrustworthy and self serving they are. Yes, this stuff does happen in the real world, but the show's narrative isn't morally neutral about it, and the subtext of trusting corrupt system actors at the end so long there's enough agitation flies in the face of expectations we'd have in real life, even if the outcomes themselves are realistic.

[sdwoodchuck]

Yeah, I don't think any of the legitimate criticism I've read of the ending is bothered by the fact that it was or wasn't happy enough, or by the "realism" of the situation, or lack thereof. Those things are all completely separate from the mess tonal inconsistency, characters behaving counter to their established natures with no acknowledged impetus for said change, lost plot threads, and unearned closure.

[AmuroNT1]

You know, for all the talk about how "realism doesn't matter", you guys sure seem fixated on the idea of Rustal getting swift, abrupt karma for his actions. You're making it sound like you wanted a bolt of lightning to rip its way out of the crystal-clear sky and fry him.

Spoiler

Besides, if you really think about it, he DID get punished in a pretty severe way. The Seven Stars get abolished and Gjallarhorn is forced into becoming a more benevolent organization. Meaning all the fighting he did in order to maintain the status quo was completely for naught; sure, he's in charge of Gjallarhorn now, but that hardly makes him King of the World. He's being forced to give up most of that power, and he has to do so with a great big smile on his face because the world is watching him.

Also, I'd hardly say Gaelio got "rewarded" for helping Rustal. The guy seems to be pretty messed up after using the Ein System; if he's stuck in a wheelchair several years later, then by all indications he's been rendered paraplegic and will require medical aid for the rest of his life. The closest thing he gets to a happy ending is that he's not dead, and he gently hits on Julietta (with real no indication that she reciprocated).

[sdwoodchuck]

You know, for all the talk about how "realism doesn't matter", you guys sure seem fixated on the idea of Rustal getting swift, abrupt karma for his actions. You're making it sound like you wanted a bolt of lightning to rip its way out of the crystal-clear sky and fry him.

I'm the one that said realism doesn't matter; I've made no comments suggesting that Rustal should be the target of karmic retribution, nevermind being "fixated" on it. I'm not sure where you're getting this idea about what I think should have happened, but it's flat wrong.

[phillosmaster]

"Good things come to you if you live long enough."

[latenlazy]

You know, for all the talk about how "realism doesn't matter", you guys sure seem fixated on the idea of Rustal getting swift, abrupt karma for his actions. You're making it sound like you wanted a bolt of lightning to rip its way out of the crystal-clear sky and fry him.

Spoiler

Besides, if you really think about it, he DID get punished in a pretty severe way. The Seven Stars get abolished and Gjallarhorn is forced into becoming a more benevolent organization. Meaning all the fighting he did in order to maintain the status quo was completely for naught; sure, he's in charge of Gjallarhorn now, but that hardly makes him King of the World. He's being forced to give up most of that power, and he has to do so with a great big smile on his face because the world is watching him.

Also, I'd hardly say Gaelio got "rewarded" for helping Rustal. The guy seems to be pretty messed up after using the Ein System; if he's stuck in a wheelchair several years later, then by all indications he's been rendered paraplegic and will require medical aid for the rest of his life. The closest thing he gets to a happy ending is that he's not dead, and he gently hits on Julietta (with real no indication that she reciprocated).

Not at all. Never said that Rustal should get swift abrupt karma, just that I don't agree with the finale's politics and moral stance. Note how I talk a lot about the implications of the message in the finale and not much at all about Rustal's fate. My criticism is not really about Rustal.

[BrentD15]

Spoiler

On a side note, can I just say that it is nice that a competent female pilot survived the series? I haven't seen that since Soma in 00.

*glares at Zeta, Unicorn, AGE, Victory*

[Cybaster]

Just because someone is rotten or evil doesn't mean they're going to suffer or die "just because". Karma doesn't operate on speed-dial.

I surmise people are griping about this is because that's how previous Gundam shows typically handled their conflicts and they were expecting Rustal to meet some kind of on-screen end rather than survive mostly smug and unscathed. Unless it's an origin or prelude story, typically the main villain dies in very karmic ways, even if the victory is pyrrhic, not allowing the 'bad guys' to get away with anything.

Nevermind that never deviating from the typical Gundam formula (or even just what its predecessor show did) to the letter while trying to do something 'new' is what ultimately made both Destiny, AGE and BF Try so confused and reviled, i.e. Kira surviving the Freedom being impaled in the cockpit just so he can be left open to become the main protagonist again (and return to what had apparently 'worked' with Gundam SEED)...

[yazi88]

I wouldn't compare BF and BF Try to regular Gundam shows cause the premise is completely different, its a battle shounen show that is at times parodies Gundam shows.

[latenlazy]

Just because someone is rotten or evil doesn't mean they're going to suffer or die "just because". Karma doesn't operate on speed-dial.

I surmise people are griping about this is because that's how previous Gundam shows typically handled their conflicts and they were expecting Rustal to meet some kind of on-screen end rather than survive mostly smug and unscathed. Unless it's an origin or prelude story, typically the main villain dies in very karmic ways, even if the victory is pyrrhic, not allowing the 'bad guys' to get away with anything.

Nevermind that never deviating from the typical Gundam formula (or even just what its predecessor show did) to the letter while trying to do something 'new' is what ultimately made both Destiny, AGE and BF Try so confused and reviled, i.e. Kira surviving the Freedom being impaled in the cockpit just so he can be left open to become the main protagonist again (and return to what had apparently 'worked' with Gundam SEED)...

New doesn't automatically mean good.

[Cybaster]

I wouldn't compare BF and BF Try to regular Gundam shows cause the premise is completely different, its a battle shounen show that is at times parodies Gundam shows.

True on regular Gundam shows, but Try nonetheless tried to follow its predecessor show's formula *too* closely while trying to introduce 'new' elements with the 3-on-3 fighting (to capitalize on the Try Age arcade card game's success) without thinking on whether that would work. It ended up shooting itself in the foot as a result (i.e. when all of the characters introduced in the Regionals arc hyped up to be potential rivals ended up mostly being uninspired throwaways).

New doesn't automatically mean good.

Agreed. And formulaic doesn't necessarily mean bad.

But trying to do both simultaneously without carefully thinking through *what* it wants to be in the first place is just asking for disaster.