The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:17 pm

He's not a Scirocco; he's a Jamitov. He's the bland top-dog who is there to be a symbol of overconfident power that gets toppled before revealing the real threat. Being good at what he does doesn't make him not bland.

If this guy were to wind up being the big threat of the series, that would be a massive failure by a writing team that has mostly been very capable. I don't see it happening. They've clearly set up McGIllis as the villain, and if he doesn't fall into that role by the end of the season, expect a third season or a followup movie. There's no way that they're dropping the ball badly enough for an uninteresting single-minded goober like Rustal to be the big bad.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:20 pm

Calm down, you're over speculating about what the writers are doing and you might be expecting something which might not happen with McGillis...

But whatever, your thoughts on Rustal being bland is your opinions... don't wanna start a argument on that...

We'll see if McGillis ends up being the final villian...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by SNT1 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:31 pm

Well, in any case, If Rustal being the actual big bad is considered a "failure" by the writers, then I would say it won't be the first; They've failed to develop Kudelia, Hush, Julietta among others as anyone of significance when they have shown great potential to be interesting characters early on, Mika has been one dimensional for about 46 episodes already, while special consideration has been given to the -wrong- bunch: Takaki, Yamagi, and other characters I can't even name to this day.

Again, 3 episodes and we're all still awaiting an epic asspull from McGillis, so anything is still possible.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by X_zoro » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:34 pm

I just realized Cookie and Cracker might actually die as well for having ties with Tekkadan, Rustal wants to completely whip out Tekkadan for good.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:41 pm

I gotta admit, Akihiro is probably my favorite character in the series... his character has gone a long way from beginning of season 1 when he was detached from everything and resigned himself as human debris, then connected with Tekkadan and the Turbines to the loss of his brother. And then in season 1 his growing companionship with everyone as well as his relationship with Lafner. He is a bit fatalistic now but he is willing to sacrifice himself for Orga.
I would like to say he survives in the end but this is IBO, a lot more blood is waiting to be spilled...

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by phillosmaster » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:09 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Well, in any case, If Rustal being the actual big bad is considered a "failure" by the writers, then I would say it won't be the first; They've failed to develop Kudelia, Hush, Julietta among others as anyone of significance when they have shown great potential to be interesting characters early on, Mika has been one dimensional for about 46 episodes already, while special consideration has been given to the -wrong- bunch: Takaki, Yamagi, and other characters I can't even name to this day.

Again, 3 episodes and we're all still awaiting an epic asspull from McGillis, so anything is still possible.
I feel pretty strongly that you are misrepresenting the show when you say these characters have had no development. Whether the development was effective I guess is an opinion and we are all allowed to like or not like IBO. I certainly fall in the camp of loving this show. It makes me sad to see that it appears to be falling flat for you.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by phillosmaster » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:24 pm

X_zoro wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:11 pm
Then he has more of a reason not to criticise Tekkadan members like Hush and Dane who have nothing, Dane was a killer and Hush saw his friend kill himself, Akihiro was taken away from his family by space pirates and became human debris, Biscuit not only lost his parents but lost his brother too , Arta lived in a whore house and Mika and Orga killed people as kids, 90% of Tekkadan's members are war orphans, only 6% have family, Orga has made it very clear that Tekkadan isn't just an organization, its a place for boys who have no where to go, if he had a home why did he even join in the first place lol ?
Oh I agree. I think if I was Hush I would have punched him in the face as well. Zack always struck me as a character with a more privileged perspective and this episode confirmed it. Though privileged is a relative term and while Zack was probably better off than many of the other IBO boys I'm guessing his life wasn't all that great otherwise he would never have joined up with Orga's crew. My guess is Zack thought Tekkadan was a quick way for him to elevate himself beyond his station on Mars. I mean Orga was selling the line that working for Tekkadan would give them all an easier life. Also Tekkadan seems like it was a glamorous outfit to join between seasons due the the fame they received being a part of the political plot in season 1. The answer to why Zack joined up is probably somewhere in there I would assume.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by SNT1 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:28 pm

phillosmaster wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:09 pm
SNT1 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Well, in any case, If Rustal being the actual big bad is considered a "failure" by the writers, then I would say it won't be the first; They've failed to develop Kudelia, Hush, Julietta among others as anyone of significance when they have shown great potential to be interesting characters early on, Mika has been one dimensional for about 46 episodes already, while special consideration has been given to the -wrong- bunch: Takaki, Yamagi, and other characters I can't even name to this day.

Again, 3 episodes and we're all still awaiting an epic asspull from McGillis, so anything is still possible.
I feel pretty strongly that you are misrepresenting the show when you say these characters have had no development. Whether the development was effective I guess is an opinion and we are all allowed to like or not like IBO. I certainly fall in the camp of loving this show. It makes me sad to see that it appears to be falling flat for you.
I'll probably rescind part of it and say that Julietta has had development, but one cannot deny that aside from her turning down AV, you can replace all "kuranku-nii" with "Rustal-Sama" then you get the same ZOINKS from S1 from one character.

Are you ok with how Kudelia and Hush turned out in S2? For a "Maiden of Revolution" in S1 she sure is contributing a whole lot of nothing in S2. Except maybe give Mika another baby within the next 3 weeks. And Hush... from an interesting, potentially legit wingman to human walking stick... and I kind of wanted Mika to have a wingman, since Akihiro, clearly Tekkadan's #2, has generally never fought alongside Mika and usually have different objectives during the battle.

I'm only sticking around because the lore and premise of IBO's world is still A++, while the characters in general are D+, C on a good day.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by latenlazy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:56 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:28 pm
phillosmaster wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:09 pm
SNT1 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Well, in any case, If Rustal being the actual big bad is considered a "failure" by the writers, then I would say it won't be the first; They've failed to develop Kudelia, Hush, Julietta among others as anyone of significance when they have shown great potential to be interesting characters early on, Mika has been one dimensional for about 46 episodes already, while special consideration has been given to the -wrong- bunch: Takaki, Yamagi, and other characters I can't even name to this day.

Again, 3 episodes and we're all still awaiting an epic asspull from McGillis, so anything is still possible.
I feel pretty strongly that you are misrepresenting the show when you say these characters have had no development. Whether the development was effective I guess is an opinion and we are all allowed to like or not like IBO. I certainly fall in the camp of loving this show. It makes me sad to see that it appears to be falling flat for you.
I'll probably rescind part of it and say that Julietta has had development, but one cannot deny that aside from her turning down AV, you can replace all "kuranku-nii" with "Rustal-Sama" then you get the same ZOINKS from S1 from one character.

Are you ok with how Kudelia and Hush turned out in S2? For a "Maiden of Revolution" in S1 she sure is contributing a whole lot of nothing in S2. Except maybe give Mika another baby within the next 3 weeks. And Hush... from an interesting, potentially legit wingman to human walking stick... and I kind of wanted Mika to have a wingman, since Akihiro, clearly Tekkadan's #2, has generally never fought alongside Mika and usually have different objectives during the battle.

I'm only sticking around because the lore and premise of IBO's world is still A++, while the characters in general are D+, C on a good day.
I mean, how many times can you go back to the "Orga stop being stupid we're family we're in this together" well before you're pulling up mud?

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by Amion » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:29 pm

What I find interesting is that Eugene has basically surpassed Orga. He took the lead during the fleet engagements and basically told Orga they weren't just going to turn tail and skedaddle, or something of the like. I should rewatch the scene, but it was interesting. So far, He has actually accomplished his set goal of development: be the responsible leader of Tekkadan. Heck, he even has Bright's place as ship captain. That makes the man more the leader and tactician than Orga has become.

In truth, not only has Orga's whimpering been annoyingly repetitive (though I ignore last episode, he has legit reasons to be down in that episode. Anyone would be after basically being booted back to square one), but it's sort of a deconstruction of his character than a buildup. The Orga of the first few episodes vanishes almost instantly once Naze enters the Frey. Kind of odd, since their alliance basically starts with Orga out-whiting him. Where did the tactical skill go? Same place McGillis misplaced his, apparently. But since there really hasn't been significant growth from him in other areas, this dependency on others for direction and incompetency is really all Orga is, aside from family, something he forgets about as often as a Human Debris. In a way, Orga's more like them than Mika is, completely reversing my original expectations.

Mika at least is planning a possible future, experimenting with gardening and farmwork, he even is starting look out for his child, even before he knows for sure he has one, asking Kudelia to help (which didn't at all sound like a harem moment to me, at least until Atra intervened). I personally don't even consider him completely one-dimensional anymore as a character, just a bit underdeveloped for what's there.

I continue to withhold final judgement, but I'm close to SNT1 on this. This series had such potential, but it has all been mismanaged. Guess that's Okada for us. Polarization is her call-card, after all. We were warned...
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by sdwoodchuck » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:33 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Well, in any case, If Rustal being the actual big bad is considered a "failure" by the writers, then I would say it won't be the first; They've failed to develop Kudelia, Hush, Julietta among others as anyone of significance when they have shown great potential to be interesting characters early on, Mika has been one dimensional for about 46 episodes already, while special consideration has been given to the -wrong- bunch: Takaki, Yamagi, and other characters I can't even name to this day.

Again, 3 episodes and we're all still awaiting an epic asspull from McGillis, so anything is still possible.
I don't disagree; the writers have been spotty on characters for sure. There's nothing to suggest that Kudelia is capable of being a leader, except that everybody keeps saying that she is. Hush feels like a character whose arc was aborted halfway through the season. Mika being one dimensional actually is okay for me; he's the protagonist in name only at this point, while his screen time has actually relegated him more into the realm of a secondary character in the show's ensemble cast. I'm okay with Takaki and Aston; a few episodes for that arc felt about right for those characters.

Part of the problem is too many characters with overlapping traits. Some of them are distinct enough to work (Akihiro, Naze, Orga, Eugene), but there are bunches who don't. The ones that do work mostly keep the character side working for me, though there's definitely too many "Orga having doubts" moments.

The plotting is better than the character-writing, though. I mean, we're still not looking at something great (and from a writing perspective, most of Gundam really isn't), but it has been competent in the fundamentals of telling its story, and that has been carrying it enough for me to at least watch and enjoy it, which is more than I can say of a few entries into the franchise in the last few years. That competence is what I mean when I say that they're not building Rustal to be their big bad. He's written to be overbearingly dangerous, but he doesn't carry the emotional punch that closes out a story, and while you're right that the writers stumble (and frequently), this doesn't feel like that. If they weren't having McGillis continue to act like a scheming, untrustworthy snake, I'd maybe think they aborted his character development the same as Hush, but they only seem to be ramping up those elements, which would be nonsensical if they don't wind up using them.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by MarshalBraginsky » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:41 pm

So I've started watching G Tekketsu and am really liking to most of the characters so far. I must admit that Atra's attempts at reigning Mikazuki in, even through begging Kudelia to have a baby with him, was way out of the left field and in some ways, would have been much too awkward. It's not like G-Tekketsu is gonna add in teen parenthood on top of a huge list of things that have already been occurring in the show that would be considered much too extreme in either other mecha anime shows or real life. I mean, if some of Naze's children have already become orphans, why can't Atra or Kudelia just adopt them instead of taking their time to get knocked up and go through nine months of carrying a child?

McGillis...where to start? I thought the guy was a mix of Graham Aker and Harry Ord from Turn A, with his association with Gjallarhorn's adversaries (mainly Tekkadan), but him getting engaged to a little girl? Not even Char himself would have approved of being engaged to a girl as young as nine (I don't know how old Lalah is, but she's definitely not 9). You know, I honestly hope that McGillis would somehow have a similar fate to that of Harry Ord.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:16 pm

McGillis's engagement was not his choice and its also a political marriage brought about by Iznario to gain influence in the Baldwin family. Iznario was trying to get a bunch of the seven stars in his pockets as he was also the legal guardian of Carta. McGillis obviously used his fiancee as a way to get the support of his father in law especially to get political support when he became the head of the Fareed family.

McGillis is similar to Char and Lelouch in that he will use people to get to his goal, even if that means sometimes betraying people close to you. But McGillis also had a very very harsh life too growing up and you can see why he wants power to topple Gjarrhorn. The story of Agnika gave him inspiration as a kid and gave him hope to rise up as a similar figure to shape the world, probably in a better way than the current corrupt Gjarrhorn.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by AmuroNT1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:55 pm

I feel like a lot of people here are really misunderstanding Kudelia's character and misinterpreting her development as a LACK of development simply because it didn't go the way they expected or wanted.

No, she hasn't become the "Maiden of Revolution" - but the problem is assuming that that's still her ultimate end goal. The entire point of her character arc has been going from a well-meaning but sheltered and naive rich kid to a wise, confident adult after being exposed to the harshness of reality. This is best emphasized with the whole handshake thing from the first season; in the first episode she tries to shake Mikazuki's hand because "that's how common people greet each other", and she gets offended when he declines without really bothering to understand why (his hands were dirty and he was being polite). Later on in the season, after she's been through the same Hell that the Tekkadan kids have experienced all their lives, she asks to shake his hand again, and when he says "I might get you dirty" she responds that she doesn't mind. What started as a childish imitation of human interaction became a genuine expression of camaraderie as a result of the growth she experienced.

As for the "Maiden of Revolution" thing, she got to experience that first-hand during the Dort rebellion, where she saw protesters gunned down like animals and had a woman die in her arms begging for her to do something. The idea of people fighting and potentially dying in her name clearly horrified her, as it would any sane person. And after everything she went through alongside Tekkadan, she decided that the best path would be to improve the quality of life for the children of Mars: providing them with food, shelter, and education so they wouldn't die needlessly on the streets or used as cannon fodder by heartless bastards like the people behind CGS and the Brewers.

So no, I don't think Kudelia is an underused or mismanaged character.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:03 pm

Kudelia also accomplished her goals from season 1, she is a supporting character now in season 2, she's busy running her organization and is slowly improving the lives on Mars. She made a deal on Earth with Makanai at the end of season 1 for better economic conditions on Mars which was her main reason for the journey.

I agree with Amuro that she is not underused or mismanaged... Yes her relationship with Mika is odd, but her character is not underdeveloped just because of that...

This maiden of revolution is not her character or what she even wanted. Other people put it on her to use her or exploit her for other purposes. Like Nobliss who put that name on her for selling arms and to incite incidents for profit.

Unlike certain female princess/politician characters from other Gundam shows, she's busy with her work, not preaching peace and understanding and fighting is bad nonsense... She is taking action to lift up lives in Mars albeit slowly and trying to make sure that future generations don't end up like Tekkadan kids who grew up only fighting or dying on the streets. She knows there will be conflict regardless of whether she does anything or not but she can do some damage control, she's pretty grounded, although it took quite a while for her to get there.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by SNT1 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:14 pm

latenlazy wrote:I mean, how many times can you go back to the "Orga stop being stupid we're family we're in this together" well before you're pulling up mud?
You know people laugh at Vin Diesel's shtick in the FnF frachise for repetitive use of "family" :lol:
sdwoodchuck wrote:Part of the problem is too many characters with overlapping traits. Some of them are distinct enough to work (Akihiro, Naze, Orga, Eugene), but there are bunches who don't.
And the root cause of that is the massive cast in S1 that they had the balls to increase in S2, in my opinion.
AmuroNT1 wrote:And after everything she went through alongside Tekkadan, she decided that the best path would be to improve the quality of life for the children of Mars: providing them with food, shelter, and education so they wouldn't die needlessly on the streets or used as cannon fodder by heartless bastards like the people behind CGS and the Brewers.
So no, I don't think Kudelia is an underused or mismanaged character.
yazi88 wrote:she's busy running her organization and is slowly improving the lives on Mars.
What has she done for the story and our protagonists in S2?

I know this is just fiction, but I feel robbed then that all the buildup for the Maiden of Revolution thing, her role in the S1 finale all lead up to a behind-the-scenes welfare organizer that has done nothing for Tekkadan in terms of the plot. Sensible perhaps, but a dead end and wasted screentime when it comes to watching this show in S2 from Tekkadan'-McGillis' POV.

This show probably wasted half an episode's worth of Kudelia worrying about Tekkadan with Atra ten feet away pushing for that threesome.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by MarshalBraginsky » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:15 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:16 pm
McGillis's engagement was not his choice and its also a political marriage brought about by Iznario to gain influence in the Baldwin family. Iznario was trying to get a bunch of the seven stars in his pockets as he was also the legal guardian of Carta. McGillis obviously used his fiancee as a way to get the support of his father in law especially to get political support when he became the head of the Fareed family.

McGillis is similar to Char and Lelouch in that he will use people to get to his goal, even if that means sometimes betraying people close to you. But McGillis also had a very very harsh life too growing up and you can see why he wants power to topple Gjarrhorn. The story of Agnika gave him inspiration as a kid and gave him hope to rise up as a similar figure to shape the world, probably in a better way than the current corrupt Gjarrhorn.
Yeah, but wouldn't political marriages have to be valid if the chosen groom was you know, actually a biological son of one of the parties involved? Given that McGillis was only adopted by Iznario as part of his pedo fetish, I'm not sure if Gaelio's family should have approved it in the first place. However, there might be some precedent of adopted sons of prominent politicians who wanted to establish influence through their alliance with their intended allies, as it might have been under the real life Roman Republic and later Roman Empire.

I'm not really sure if Atra is actually pregnant or not, because if she was, then she might be the first Gundam character to become a teen mom, and teen parenthood is a subject that isn't really covered in anime shows that I know of (aside from Unicorn's Marida Cruz who had several abortions due to her work as a prostitute). Another thing too that G-Tekketsu hasn't explained is that how were the lives of Mikazuki and Orga like before they joined CGS other than a few flashbacks? It could also highlight Mika's constant reference to Orga as his source of life coaching, and I wouldn't be surprised if there might be some heated confrontation between Orga and Atra plus Kudelia because of MIka's fatalistic and hopeless situation.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:15 pm

Like I said... the maiden of Revolution was not Kudelia's goal from season 1... other people put that mantle on her to exploit her or use her for publicity... She set out for Earth for better economic conditions on Mars and accomplished that with Makanai... and got more proactive along the way after Dort Colony incident. I'm not defending this weird triangle relationship with Mika and Atra... that is too weird...

I can't even remember the last GOOD relationship in Gundam... Loran and Diana I think? Good relationships in Gundam are a rarity in Gundam... most are mediocre or a last minute thing...

Iznario himself said in season 1 that he set up McGillis's marriage for political gain, also hiding information that he both abused McGillis and that he adopted him.
Last edited by yazi88 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by MarshalBraginsky » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:27 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:15 pm
Like I said... the maiden of Revolution was not Kudelia's goal from season 1... other people put that mantle on her to exploit her or use her for publicity... She set out for Earth for better economic conditions on Mars and accomplished that with Makanai...

Iznario himself said in season 1 that he set up McGillis's marriage for political gain, also hiding information that he both abused McGillis and that he adopted him.
The abuse part is really horrifying though, even more so than Marida's situation. G Tekketsu isn't pulling all the stops to including horrific kinds of child abuse in this series.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Anime Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:30 pm

But given what we saw in season 1 with child abuse in CGS and human debris, along with kids selling their bodies on the streets and starving to death? It's not that surprising, screwed up yes, but given the world in IBO, it fits....

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