Official Muv-Luv Schwarzesmarken Thread

[yazi88]

Since this show is airing now might as well make a thread for it so people can discuss and voice their thoughts on the show.

This has a kind of different feel compared to the previous show Total Eclipse but that's not a bad thing. I'm enjoying it so far despite how much dread the vibe is from the show.

[Gelgoog Jager]

I'm liking this show a lot more than Total Eclipse.

The Beta have remained a constant threat so far, unlike TE in which it seemed that they only made an occasional cameo. Plus we finally get to see some heavy laser class in action.

I also had a hard time taking TE seriously, but Scwarzenmarken has done a decent job keeping the serious tone most of the time.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Well this show only has 12 episodes to work with so a lot of stuff has been cut out while Total Eclipse had more time to stretch its legs. TE focused more on test pilot antics and occasionally had the serious plot development, while Schwarzesmarken takes place on the front lines, cuts out all the harem antics, and has a single overarching story.

Schwarzesmarken is doing a good job keeping the narrative together, though I'd say the interpersonal relationships suffer a bit for it. Because Theodor's feelings for Irisdina and Katia's feelings for Theodor get no real focus they feel a bit shallow and we get scenes like Theodor telling what he likes about Irisdina rather than us seeing it. With Katia we're only left to assume she likes him because he protects her.

The most developed relationship is actually Theodor and Lise because we at least get a flashback to their childhood together. Makes me wonder if the anime is supposed to be the Lise route.

[Henyo]

i'm enjoying it myself. though the normal suits are still not to my liking. there's also the many "talented" females.
one question! where does this fit into the entire Muv Luv franchise? and TE for that matter.

[Destiny_Gundam]

It takes place long before TE does. While unconfirmed the possible link is that

Spoiler

Theodor becomes 'The Master', the guy responsible for the terrorist attack at the end of TE.

[Henyo]

It takes place long before TE does. While unconfirmed the possible link is that

Spoiler

Theodor becomes 'The Master', the guy responsible for the terrorist attack at the end of TE.

oooh!!! that's interesting. how long are we taking about here BTW? 10+ years? the tech level on TE doesn't seem to be too different from Schwarzesmarken. of course it could be just me being limited to the anime adaptations.

either way, humans still prioritize fighting with each other than fighting the BETA. though that's kinda the point of muv-luv..right?

[Destiny_Gundam]

Schwarzesmarken takes place in 1983, while Total Eclipse takes place in 2001.

[Areku]

Please use (more) spoiler tags, guys. Not everyone has seen other stuff in the franchise, and it's not like Schwarzesmarken assumes that they have.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Well yeah, but there haven't been any real spoilers posted in this thread. There's just one bit of speculation that I did put in spoiler tags. What above do you think needs to be tagged?

[Areku]

Well yeah, but there haven't been any real spoilers posted in this thread. There's just one bit of speculation that I did put in spoiler tags. What above do you think needs to be tagged?

Oh, yeah, nothing egregious, but some of the un-tagged stuff makes it obvious that

Spoiler

the conflict with the BETA won't be resolved within the next 18 years.

I'm not upset, but having not seen (or even aware of, really) anything else from Muv-Luv, I think it's fair to call that a spoiler.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Eeeeh... I think that's an obvious enough detail that it's not a spoiler. It's not like it's a secret that the franchise continues on.

[Areku]

About the Show

Simulcast on Sundays 1:35pm EST

In 1983, the East German Army 666th TSF Squadron, “Schwarzes marken,” is a special-response force tasked with assaulting BETA forces. They specifically target Laser and Heavy Laser class BETA to disable their enemy’s immense firepower. This merciless team’s orders are given the highest priority, and they follow them so exactly that the 666th is known to ignore allied distress calls that would interfere with an ongoing mission, even if only for a moment.

The events in Schwarzesmarken take place in 1983, the East German Army 666th TSF Squadron "Schwarzesmarken" (Black Marks) are a special-forces unit tasked with assaulting BETA forces through unconventional tactics; specifically, they target Lux and Magnus Lux to deny the BETA the advantage of ranged firepower. Their orders are given the topmost priority, such that it is common practice for the 666th to ignore allied distress calls that will result in deviation from their original mission, even if only for a short moment.

The 666th Squadron mostly operates MiG-21s, with their squadron commander Irisdena Bernhard piloting an MiG-21PF.

It's not widely advertised as being connected to Muv-Luv,

Spoiler

let alone as being a prequel to an ongoing conflict that won't be resolved for decades, with the implications that has for the prospects of all characters involved.

Sure, if you're already invested in Muv-Luv, it's probably pretty obvious, but it isn't reasonable to expect a new viewer to know about that. I certainly didn't know about the connection before I read it on Mecha Talk.

I hope I don't come across as a spoiler Nazi, but I do think some of what you guys haven't tagged is fairly significant to a new viewer.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Right, but it's connection to Muv-Luv isn't a big secret or anything and can be discovered by looking at the most basic of information.

If some one had never heard of Gundam, would you be obligated to not mention that Zeta Gundam exists? I mean, it spoils that first Gundam doesn't end with everlasting peace!

At the very least looking at the show you have to realise that it's about a small squad on the losing side of a massive alien invasion. It's highly unlikely that they'd be able to defeat the BETA for good by themselves.

[Areku]

What do you consider to be the "most basic of information"? It isn't mentioned in the synopsis on two of the most proliferate resources for finding and watching anime (as I posted above), and Muv-Luv isn't acknowledged in the show's OP, ED or anywhere else in the show. It's no secret that it's a prequel in an unfinished conflict, but that knowledge isn't pushed onto a Schwarzesmarken viewer. It's knowledge external to the show and how it's been marketed. You have to actively dig deeper to find that connection if you don't already know about Muv-Luv.

By contrast, this is how Thunderbolt is marketed on anichart:

The story is set in the same One Year War in UC 0079 as the first Mobile Suit Gundam anime series. It follows the battles between two ace pilots of the Principality of Zeon and the Earth Federation at the "Thunderbolt Sector," a shoal zone with numerous wrecks of space colonies and warships.

Your example is flawed, Gundam 0079 aired years before Zeta. A better example would be another prequel that doesn't specifically point out that it's a prequel. Off the top of my head, nothing's coming to mind. That aside, at least Gundam 0079 ended with tentative peace and possible outs for the characters involved in a war that wasn't inherently genocidal, something I don't see happening if the conflict with BETA extends beyond Schwarzesmarken.

I agree that it was highly unlikely for Schwarzesmarken to end happily, but ignoring other material, there was still a chance. For all we know, the BETA's current assault was a last ditch effort, with the possibility of the BETA collapsing if they can be stopped here. Additionally, the show has made a point of the 666th improving relations with foreign powers, and some of the characters' optimism hasn't quite yet been shattered. Unlikely as it was, there was still the pretense of hope.

[Destiny_Gundam]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... p?id=17670

[prequel of Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse (TV)]

Easily accessible information from a widely used resource. You don't need to dig into franchise specific wikis or anything to discover the connection. Nor is it some surprise twist only revealed at the end of the show (like Skullman for instance). From episode one you have BETA and TSF and skintight suits, all characteristic of a Muv-Luv title.

That a larger franchise exists outside of this show is not a spoiler. As a mod I'm not going to force anyone to spoiler tag that.

[Areku]

Easily accessible information from a widely used resource. You don't need to dig into franchise specific wikis or anything to discover the connection.

I feel like you're either missing or ignoring the point. The spoiler isn't that it's a prequel, though the fact that 2 out of 3 resources cited so far don't mention that on the surface is still relevant. The spoiler is the compound information that the conflict with the BETA continues for at least another 18 years; given that it is clearly a genocidal war, this information has significant impact on the future of every character.

My point in discussing it being a prequel isn't that it being a prequel is supposed to be concealed, but rather that the promotional material and the show itself make absolutely no indication that it's expected for the viewer to know about Muv-Luv; in your own link, the reference to Muv-Luv is an observation by ANN, with the actual plot summary making no mention of Muv-Luv or future events. Therefore, discussing Muv-Luv in a way that reveals future developments in the currently-airing Schwarzesmarken is, by definition, spoiling Schwarzesmarken. Talking about a random shipping from Muv-Luv? Not a spoiler. Mentioning a (theoretical) newspaper in Muv-Luv that describes the fall of Europe in 1983? Spoiler.

I really didn't expect to have to do much more than ask politely for people to tag spoilers pertaining to an airing show. I appreciate you tagging whatever it is you decided was a spoiler earlier in the thread, but I think anything else that occurs or is revealed beyond what has currently aired also constitutes a spoiler.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Your request was reasonable for the most part. You just made it when it wasn't necessary since no major spoilers were posted.

Just because summaries or whatnot doesn't say "THIS IS PART OF MUV LUV" in neon writing doesn't make it less true. Even coming into this thread you should have seen it in the title. It's a basic piece of information much like "this show has robots."

Obviously if some one posted that at the end they all turn into space whales and start singing that would need tagging. But saying it takes place x years before something else doesn't. If you extrapolate any sort of conclusion from that, that's your doing, not the poster's.

[Calubin_175]

Schwarzesmarken is more enjoyable if we know more about the history of East Germany and how accurately it is being portrayed in terms of visuals, names and language in this Japanese work of fiction.

Two German scholars have analysed every episode to date.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30y0MQGOEVo