The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by sdwoodchuck » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:30 pm

This episode felt a lot better than Season 1. The characters are still paper-thin, but they're less of a focus in this episode, and used more to further the plot, which is a much better use of the too-brief running time they've got to work with. Considering how badly I disliked Season 1, I'm not particularly optimistic, but maybe they'll surprise me. And hey, at least we're guaranteed some decent Gunpla out of the equation.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:24 pm

Watched this continuing episode last night. I haven't watched December Sky yet (bad Zeonista) so the A Baoa Qu scenes were a nice transition piece. The skipping along to the Remnant Years portion of the story was handled well. The episode made a positive impression on me. albeit for different reasons than episode #1. #1 was the viewer being inserted into the remorseless, unrelenting meatgrinder of the late One Year War. #5 was the insertion into the quest for SIlver Bullet Gundam and the never-ending "low intensity conflict" of the the tehered EFF forces and the numerous scattered Zeon forces who hadn't admitted defeat via Zabi soap opera. Both were done well, with lots of action, and glimpses of people we would get to know later on. Of course, we know two MS pilots well enough already....

Mecha Porn: Still the main reason to watch this show! So awesome even if it bends the MS tech curve more than Stardust Memory! :lol:
Last Respects: The Buddhist monks chanting the services for the fallen as the corpses of both sides are cremated put a respectful end to the fighting. That was a stand-out scene in composition.
Mysterious Newtype Girl: Gotta stay with the classics.
Feddy Babe Upgrade: Much needed and appreciated, even if she is a Spacenoid. :P
GM Cannon Aqua: FInally, an anime which actually uses the much-rumored EFF marine MS!
Cool Jazz: Definitely the way to appreciate Io's debut in the RX-78 AL. Groovy. 8)
Tin Man: Darryl is still the least fearsome Zeon ace, bless his missing heart. But it is OK, he has his own appeal. Now maybe if he could get some prosthetic hands with five fingers....
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:14 pm

I've I've a love hatred relationship with Gundam Thunderbolt:

-I really liked the first episode, as well as many of the redesigned MS.
-Things went downhill on episode (well technically the very end of ep 1) once we Io gets a Gundam so overpowered that it makes the ZZ Gundam feel underpowered.
-Ep 3 was an improvement over 2, but I still didn't quite like it. Darryl wiping out the EF fleet didn't feel quite as exciting as other battles, despite it being a turning point for the battle. I had mixed thoughts about the Psycho Zaku, since I'm not fond of units that are supposedly made much more powerful by strapping as many extra weapons and thrusters as possible, but I let it slide since Darryl had to give up his hand and literally plug into the machine to use it. By extent is seemed ridiculous that Io was able to fight, or rather had been able to fight all along, at the same level out of the blue.
-Anyway, I did like the last episode of the season even if it still had some problems, and actually liked the note in which it ended.

Sadly, December Sky ruined what I had actually deemed a good ending (well except for Io) for the series, and up to a point didn't change much things aside from leaving a much darker ending for Zeon: Io and the EF soldiers would have ended up as POV and returned to the EF after the end of the war and we would still know that Zeon would have lost at A Baoa Qu and the EF captured the Zeong (well, originally they only obtained its blueprints). Darryl not being able to properly pilot a regular MS is not surprising at all, specially so soon after getting his new artificial hands. In short, I don't think the new ending actually added anything substantial.

Unfortunately, the first episode of this new season left me a similar taste. I didn't like how one-sided the battle between Dopps and Core Fighters seemed: supposedly any surviving Zeon remnants should have some minimal fighting capabilities that would justify them lasting so long. Another issue is the is how inconsistently powerful beam weapons are: the Gundam's beam weapons seem to be all might, yet the anti-ship beam cannon of the Bigro is unable to get past a couple of GM shields (which by the way shouldn't even have anti-beam coating at that point). In the end small details like this make the story feel too plot driven, meaning that established things work or stop working as they should in order to make things look cooler or to make one side seem more overpowered than the other, as the situation requires.

Case in point, I have many problems with the scene about the Komusai launching a kamikaze attack on the Pegasus class ship: for starters the operation itself seems pointless, since by the time the Komusai got close enough to damage the Pegasus it would have been quickly torn apart by the AA defenses. I'm also having a hard time thinking that the ship would have a harder time hitting the Komusai than the Gundam, considering that the size of the later should in theory make it more stable and thus more likely to land a hit. But most importantly, if the EF was already prepared to provide ground support (well, technically aerial) to the descending ship, with the very group of units that were already discovered by Zeon remnants earlier, wouldn't it had made more sense for the Pegasus to either postpone the operation, choose a different route to avoid being find out or even just provide some escorts that could remain in orbit to observe for enemy movements after the Pegasus began its descent, thus being able to provide support or at least warn them in advance?

Needless to say, I'm not left with much desire to keep watching, aside from seeing some more redesigned MS and ships. Perhaps the most ironic part is that
SpoilerShow
I haven't even reached the part where we find out that tibetan monks have somehow taken over a sizable chunk of the EF's territory
.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:31 pm

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:14 pm

-Ep 3 was an improvement over 2, but I still didn't quite like it. Darryl wiping out the EF fleet didn't feel quite as exciting as other battles, despite it being a turning point for the battle. I had mixed thoughts about the Psycho Zaku, since I'm not fond of units that are supposedly made much more powerful by strapping as many extra weapons and thrusters as possible, but I let it slide since Darryl had to give up his hand and literally plug into the machine to use it. By extent is seemed ridiculous that Io was able to fight, or rather had been able to fight all along, at the same level out of the blue.
I wouldn't say its out of the blue. Io most likely has more combat experience in mobile suit battles compared to Daryl whose combat experience is made of mostly, if not entirely, of sniping. The two have advantages in different areas that makes the fight an even match. Io has experience and skill while Daryl has the technical advantage.
Unfortunately, the first episode of this new season left me a similar taste. I didn't like how one-sided the battle between Dopps and Core Fighters seemed: supposedly any surviving Zeon remnants should have some minimal fighting capabilities that would justify them lasting so long.
Not really, just because they survived up to this point (which isn't long considering its only 0080) it doesn't mean they are skilled. Also considering the cargo of the Medeas those Feddie pilots were probably a lot more skilled than the average ones.
Another issue is the is how inconsistently powerful beam weapons are: the Gundam's beam weapons seem to be all might, yet the anti-ship beam cannon of the Bigro is unable to get past a couple of GM shields (which by the way shouldn't even have anti-beam coating at that point).

While the anti-beam coating didn't exist at this point, didn't some kind beam resistant tech exist at this point? Granted I doubt it would have been enough to absorb a shot from a bigro unless the beam was under powered. Though considering the state of Zeon at this point I suppose you could partially hand wave this by saying the bigro's reactor wasn't working properly.
Case in point, I have many problems with the scene about the Komusai launching a kamikaze attack on the Pegasus class ship: for starters the operation itself seems pointless, since by the time the Komusai got close enough to damage the Pegasus it would have been quickly torn apart by the AA defenses. I'm also having a hard time thinking that the ship would have a harder time hitting the Komusai than the Gundam, considering that the size of the later should in theory make it more stable and thus more likely to land a hit. But most importantly, if the EF was already prepared to provide ground support (well, technically aerial) to the descending ship, with the very group of units that were already discovered by Zeon remnants earlier, wouldn't it had made more sense for the Pegasus to either postpone the operation, choose a different route to avoid being find out or even just provide some escorts that could remain in orbit to observe for enemy movements after the Pegasus began its descent, thus being able to provide support or at least warn them in advance?
While I have no doubt the operation had very little chance of success I can still under why they attempted the Kamikaze attack. The trade off makes it too good to pass up. Though I have to admit the Pegasus seemed to be having more difficulty than it should have shooting it down.

I doubt that the Medea group was there to provide aerial support for the Pegasus. The Medea group was most likely just there to supply the Pegasus and the fighters were simply the Medea's escort. Also, considering the different points of time between the two fights I think its safe to assume that the Medea's run in with the Dopps happened several hours before the Pegasus descended and therefore making the issue of postponing the mission a moot point. Even if it happened shortly before the Pegasus descended, the core fighters dealt with the dopps pretty easily so there probably would have been no need for concern based on solely on that attack.

That being said it probably would have been a good idea to have an escort to cover them above the atmosphere. Though more ships would most likely draw more attention.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deathzealot » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:09 pm

Speaking of the Medea's and the Core Fighters. Am I the only one impressed with how the Fighters are carried by the Medeas. I had thought they would have launched from the Cargo Bays, but docking in the wings and taking advantage of the Core Fighters limited transformation system to allow it to dock like that was impressive. Also the new Guntank was interesting as well, could say the shades of the later Lotos in that it can carry a Special Force Platoon. I can't wait to see how the Spartan uses those attached Landing Ships during the next few episodes.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:41 pm

Just dropping by quickly to comment further on the anti-beam coating:

-There do was some early anti-beam coating during the OYW, which was used by Zeon on the Gelgoog's Zulu shield. Unfortunately it wasn't very effective and couldn't block a direct hit from the front, but it was somewhat effective against beam shots received at an angle, which would essentially be the justification for the shape of the Gelgoog's shield.

-The GM's standard shield didn't have any anti-beam coating during the OYW, which is understandable considering the lack of Zeon MS equipped with them during most of the conflict. The MS-14 on the other hand was developed in response to the Gundam and its handheld beam weapons, which justify why the MS-14 atttempted to incorporate some sort of anti-beam weapon defense. However, even the Gelgoog shield would likely be unable to stop a regular beam rifle shot from the front, much less the larger and more powerful anti-ship beam cannon of the Bigro.

And on more comment on the Kamikaze Komusai: I actually wondered if the Komusai was carrying explosives so that even if it exploded some distance away from the Pegasus it would still damage/destroy it, but since Io was able to cut it in half without it exploding on his face, then the ship wasn't been loaded with something to take down the Pegasus, which makes the plan even more ridiculous and make it seem that they hoped to actually survive through the AA defense and last long enough to ram the ship. The more I think on this scene, the more ridiculous it becomes.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:35 pm

I suppose the advantage of no explosives would be that you have more maneuverability since you don't have the extra weight and you don't run the risk of one lucky round going through the cargo area and setting off the whole fireworks display prematurely. Its also possible that it did have explosives and that they had to be armed before they could go off to avoid premature detonation.

Even if the craft gets shot down the wreckage could still hit the Spartan if it lined its course up with the Spartan. Granted this is assuming the wreckage does not explode.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by sdwoodchuck » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:11 pm

It wouldn't take a large weight of explosives to turn a shuttle into decent bomb--even by 2017 standards. The tradeoff in maneuverability for destructive power would be a minimal loss for an enormous gain. As for having them be something that is there but needs to be armed, it's possible, but there's no indication of that in the show. There's no mention of carrying explosives, or "get ready to arm them" or anything like that, so trying to plug the hole that way is basically just fan-fiction.

It's really just a simplistic introduction action scene that doesn't make a lot of sense. I'm fine with that--there's LOTS of stuff in Gundam that doesn't make much sense--and I think Thunderbolt has issues that hurt it much worse than that.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by False Prophet » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:34 am

How does anyone here think of the scene between the golden-trimmed Zaku (Royal Guard?) and the GM at the beginning of the episode? I just don't understand why didn't the Zaku pilot make a conscious retreat to the nearest cover - standing right there and shooting at an enemy you know your bullet won't penetrate is just stupid.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:52 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:34 am
How does anyone here think of the scene between the golden-trimmed Zaku (Royal Guard?) and the GM at the beginning of the episode? I just don't understand why didn't the Zaku pilot make a conscious retreat to the nearest cover - standing right there and shooting at an enemy you know your bullet won't penetrate is just stupid.
They're the Royal Guard... you don't simply "retreat"...

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:07 am

Where would he even retreat to? Doesn't look like there was even any cover he could really hide behind.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by krullnar » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:07 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:52 pm
False Prophet wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:34 am
How does anyone here think of the scene between the golden-trimmed Zaku (Royal Guard?) and the GM at the beginning of the episode? I just don't understand why didn't the Zaku pilot make a conscious retreat to the nearest cover - standing right there and shooting at an enemy you know your bullet won't penetrate is just stupid.
They're the Royal Guard... you don't simply "retreat"...
Indeed running is just not in the job description.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:20 pm

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:34 am
How does anyone here think of the scene between the golden-trimmed Zaku (Royal Guard?) and the GM at the beginning of the episode? I just don't understand why didn't the Zaku pilot make a conscious retreat to the nearest cover - standing right there and shooting at an enemy you know your bullet won't penetrate is just stupid.
This Zeonista & fellow gunslinger Jayne feel the same about this situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLlNpSXlgAM

Tha statement being made, yeah, the Royal Guard does not run. In the current situation all the pilot could do was hose the Feddy shields and hold them down for another few precious seconds while Newtype Girl (mint in original packaging) got handed off to the evac ship. He knew he was dead guard walking, it was about completing the mission.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Erisie » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:36 am

Episode 6 saw the debut in animation of an old favorite, the Zanny...
...except for the fact that, according to this, it's not a Zanny. This weird Zaku-derived fellow is, apparently, an SRf-06 Dare.

It bears reminding that the Zanny itself is designated RRf-06 (with the f in lowercase). As it is already established that the "R" in EF-issued MS models stands for "Renpou" (jp: Federation), perhaps the S in the "Dare"'s designation code stands for "Southern Seas Alliance".

Another thing to consider: in Japanese, "dare" means "who".

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Loop_Stratos » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:11 am

Why does the show feel the need to kill practically every pilot in every battle? Otherwise good episode.
IMO

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by sdwoodchuck » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:39 pm

Hated Season 1, and I can't say Season 2 is fixing my opinions of it. It's a shame, because there's some great designs coming out of this series, and the action is mostly well animated, but the lack of any real character writing means there's no dramatic tension to any of it.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:19 pm

This episode seemed entirely too rushed... The detail of the manga was completely lost in this episode. The quality in animation drops every other scene. One second Io looks like a little 12 year old kid and the next he's back to adulthood. The manga design didn't translate to animation well. Bianca was probably the only one who was ever given the most detail in her scenes. The battle with the Grublo was entirely too short as well. Maybe it's because they restructured the story from the manga. That aside, the Japanese rendition of Feeling Good by Nina Simone was pretty kick ass addition!

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Soma Taozi » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:36 pm

I am only 5 minutes into the new episode and all I will say is that scene where they play jazz together is utterly charming. The rest of the episode could suck and I will be happy Thunderbolt exists for that scene alone.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Bryant Molirse » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:06 pm

I watched episode 2, and I can't hold back on saying this, the rendition of crush depth, was an epic fail. They should have actually researched what happens when something sinks past its structural limits. It doesn't crinkle up into a ball. First it implodes, at which time any gases inside, rupture outwards. The mass would just sink. Also, unless the armor on the Atlas Gundam was made out of Metal Foam, it shouldn't have crushed like that. Sorry for bringing real physics into the anime thread.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:04 pm

Bryant Molirse wrote:
Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:06 pm
I watched episode 2, and I can't hold back on saying this, the rendition of crush depth, was an epic fail. They should have actually researched what happens when something sinks past its structural limits. It doesn't crinkle up into a ball. First it implodes, at which time any gases inside, rupture outwards. The mass would just sink. Also, unless the armor on the Atlas Gundam was made out of Metal Foam, it shouldn't have crushed like that. Sorry for bringing real physics into the anime thread.
no problems here on my side. it's actually helpful.
i went "HUH? is that really how it goes?" that enemy MS just went out like the SRW Z series Dimensional Beasts.

how about that part where Io used the Beam sabers as a way to rise up?
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