The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Erisie » Mon May 09, 2016 4:51 pm

After reading Chris' review of the episode, I can't but help agree with him. While very pretty in a visual sense, especially with the cool not-teenage-friendly character designs, the whole thing is more or less pointless. People die left and right for no reason. Nobody has a real impact in the story.

Yasuo Ohtagaki is culpable of having excessive grim just for the heck of it. It's pretty bad and pretty obvious. At the very least, he doesn't fall into the pit of gratuitousness that is Front Mission: Dog Life & Dog Style. I'm all for adult-oriented manga, but that doesn't mean having senseless death everywhere. That's what edgy kids want.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Admiral Larsen » Tue May 10, 2016 1:10 am

Erisie wrote:After reading Chris' review of the episode, I can't but help agree with him. While very pretty in a visual sense, especially with the cool not-teenage-friendly character designs, the whole thing is more or less pointless. People die left and right for no reason. Nobody has a real impact in the story.

Yasuo Ohtagaki is culpable of having excessive grim just for the heck of it. It's pretty bad and pretty obvious. At the very least, he doesn't fall into the pit of gratuitousness that is Front Mission: Dog Life & Dog Style. I'm all for adult-oriented manga, but that doesn't mean having senseless death everywhere. That's what edgy kids want.
While I too am cringing at the review and the summary it provides and with what my comments may wade into, about people dying left and right and it seemingly for no reason, isn't that how it is in wartime in a sense.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Tue May 10, 2016 8:16 pm

@Gelgoog Jager:
I already said I'm not interested in continuing but I'll admit freely that if the part about that being a civilian habitat is true (which I find highly questionable when that thing is facing the sun and is surrounded by an obscene number of solar panels) then you've at least got a pretty solid point about the ending being a beautifully implausible fantasy for everybody who isn't Amuro Ray.

Your second point is extraneous technical detail that does little to contradict and in fact concurs with my assertion that the Solar Ray would act as a deterrent. A weapon of strategic influence is by definition a "defensive" weapon. I also described it as a solution to unrest because not only are weapons ultimately intended to end lives and to exert control regardless of classification but also because that was what Gihren used it for when he committed patricide.

To your final point, good grief. I don't believe that liking Zeon OR the Federation and finding excuses for why it's OK to like them makes you a bad person in real life. It just doesn't. They are not real and there are forces of diegetic persuasion which can be used to justify them. But please also recognize how loaded "Not to mention [...] the whole ethnical cleansing could even come under debate" sounds when you are talking about a fictional group that were inspired by the Axis Powers and comes from a story whose country of origin was a part of the Axis Powers. How we view fiction informs our perception of related truths in our every day lives. Dramatic media is seductive and you don't need an ulterior motive for people to learn the wrong lessons from it. Always remember that.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Imperial » Tue May 10, 2016 10:50 pm

And so it ends.

The Stargazer assessment is right on the money. This little series could have really gained a lot from even five more minutes per episode or one more episode at the current length. As it is, it amounts mostly to eye candy and Zeon porn.
Gelgoog Jager wrote:I'm glad to see an ending where Zeon wins for a change, even if only temporarily. Considering how basically every Gundam series ends returning to the status quo, in which the EF government inability to do things right keeps proving more conflicts, I'm surprised that we haven't seen some spinoff/IF universe in which Zeon does win the OYW or a later conflict. If we go by what could happen in Gihren's Greed, the perfect victory for Zeon actually seemed like the best possible outcome, showing that even the EF characters got good endings, such as Shiro (with both legs) and Aina ending together, as well as Kai & Miharu, Bright & Mirai, etc.
No way, man

Zeonic victory is an Orwellian nightmare of ethnic cleansing and Emperor Gihren. Tomino has been hammering home the Nazi analogy since '79. How do people keep misconstruing Zeon as the good guys?
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Admiral Larsen » Tue May 10, 2016 11:37 pm

Imperial wrote:And so it ends.

The Stargazer assessment is right on the money. This little series could have really gained a lot from even five more minutes per episode or one more episode at the current length. As it is, it amounts mostly to eye candy and Zeon porn.
Gelgoog Jager wrote:I'm glad to see an ending where Zeon wins for a change, even if only temporarily. Considering how basically every Gundam series ends returning to the status quo, in which the EF government inability to do things right keeps proving more conflicts, I'm surprised that we haven't seen some spinoff/IF universe in which Zeon does win the OYW or a later conflict. If we go by what could happen in Gihren's Greed, the perfect victory for Zeon actually seemed like the best possible outcome, showing that even the EF characters got good endings, such as Shiro (with both legs) and Aina ending together, as well as Kai & Miharu, Bright & Mirai, etc.
No way, man

Zeonic victory is an Orwellian nightmare of ethnic cleansing and Emperor Gihren. Tomino has been hammering home the Nazi analogy since '79. How do people keep misconstruing Zeon as the good guys?
Blame it on watching too much of the cutscenes from Gihren's greed.

Not to mention with Japan's own history, it seems that the idea of whitewashing for Zeon is gaining traction. Granted the Earth Federation is not a saint (and of course they created the hell of the Titans) but that is nothing to what Zeon did with the colony drop and the initial assaults at the start of the one year war.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Imperial » Wed May 11, 2016 12:17 am

No one is arguing that the Federation is all gumdrops and rainbows, but that's pretty much the go-to for Zeonists.

The Federation is bad, therefore Zeon is good!

Never mind that it's entirely possible, even likely, for two sides of a conflict to have their own skeletons in the closet. The Feds being less than saints doesn't justify Zeon half as much as people like to think.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Admiral Larsen » Wed May 11, 2016 12:44 am

Imperial wrote:No one is arguing that the Federation is all gumdrops and rainbows, but that's pretty much the go-to for Zeonists.

The Federation is bad, therefore Zeon is good!

Never mind that it's entirely possible, even likely, for two sides of a conflict to have their own skeletons in the closet. The Feds being less than saints doesn't justify Zeon half as much as people like to think.
Agreed. Since neither side is likely to acknowledge that, it depends on how much skeletons are in the closet.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Sun May 15, 2016 6:51 pm

Gosh, I just read the first 4 volumes of the manga and the cutoff point for the anime was... so much better than what we got. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying here, it's all the same but it's paced better and tonally it's not such a jumbled mess. Cornelius's pleas resonate as the intended message. It's a balanced depiction and doesn't rely on meanspirited shock value.

I'm also much clearer on the exact outcome of the final battle. Zeon reinforcements capture the Gundam and take the Moore Brotherhood prisoner but the Federation lays claim to the Thunderbolt Sector. Despite being the same ending, it's nowhere near as victorious for Zeon as it felt while watching the anime.

I'll get into major changes for anybody else who started with the anime and is curious.

Daryl originally lost his left hand off screen after a shelling on the barracks during a surprise attack. Having him lose it in his first fight with the Gundam was an improvement both for meeting adaptation requirements and for more directly integrating such a major development. Showing his operation for the second arm was another great touch and emphasized the body horror.

Claudia wasn't that much more competent but she was portrayed as at least being able to suppress her emotions while on the bridge. To use the words of Stephen King when describing Shelly Duvall's performance as Wendy in The Shining, they more or less turned her into a dish rag. This the most disappointing character revelation as that amount of professionalism would have made her far easier to sympathize with in the anime.

Graham was an outright malicious character who specifically hated both Io and Claudia for their political lineage. We learn about his lost family earlier and that he deliberately intended on having Io die during a marathon first sortie with the Gundam. This was touched upon briefly in the anime but not explicitly. His taking the captain's chair before Claudia returned to duty was originally intended as a power grab.

Io himself is easier to relate to as a protagonist. He is hurt by Claudia saying she no longer loves him and there is a slightly different scene where, when telling him about her turn to narcotics, she coldly tells him that he should be forced to bear the same guilt that she and his father had to bear. After additional scenes where he bonds with the child recruits, Claudia's words resonate with him when they are slaughtered.

The rookie pilots don't die in a comical frenzy. The massacre is portrayed from within one cadet's cockpit where the cameras have been knocked out. Not going with this sequence was a huge mistake because of how visceral and effective it was.

As for Volume 4 and how the story immediately continues, it's an interesting scenario. Two big things that I think need changing for adaptation is the outrageous amount of territory controlled by the South Seas Alliance and the wild depiction of the battle of A Baoa Qu. I don't know if I want to see them adapt this arc because of how mixed the results have been already but they may as well since the relevant plot threads are left open and deserve closure. There are details that might need to be scaled back to fit the animated universe's perspective but aside from that I guess it would also be pretty fun to have an official depiction of the 0080-0083 reconstruction period.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by balofo » Fri May 20, 2016 6:14 am

New CM with new battle footage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRifI1kTpEA

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Sun May 22, 2016 9:58 pm

Y'know, after catching up on the manga... is it alright for me to say that this jumped the shark? I assumed that the South Seas Alliance arc was going to be a small scale separatist movement and that the whole thing would be guerrilla skirmishes but this is a whole new major war set before 0083! I mean, doesn't stuff like this make Operation Stardust and the Federation's Titans conspiracy totally pointless?

I get the feeling that Thunderbolt was only planned out long enough in advance for the first three volumes and that it continued just based on the success of its brand. I hope the web animation was intended as a quick promotional exercise to appease Bandai because this reminds me of how off-beat and out of proportion Astray is in relation to the Cosmic Era. If mechanical designs and combat scenes are what you need, I think the material represents itself perfectly fine but seeing this story adapted into the Sunrise universe will give me a headache @_@;

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Mon May 23, 2016 1:23 am

Dustman wrote:Y'know, after catching up on the manga... is it alright for me to say that this jumped the shark? I assumed that the South Seas Alliance arc was going to be a small scale separatist movement and that the whole thing would be guerrilla skirmishes but this is a whole new major war set before 0083! I mean, doesn't stuff like this make Operation Stardust and the Federation's Titans conspiracy totally pointless?
Well from what I've heard thunderbolt is considered alternate UC by the fandom so I guess this is why. Though it's also I good reminder why sunrise considers most non animated entries as non official.
Dustman wrote: If mechanical designs and combat scenes are what you need, I think the material represents itself perfectly fine but seeing this story adapted into the Sunrise universe will give me a headache @_@;
Well if that ever happens we could just treat it as an alternate timeline like the Zeta gundam movies. :)

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Dustman » Mon May 23, 2016 3:13 am

Well I don't know. A New Translation is more than that because despite being an alternate conclusion the Gryps/Axis conflict, it still ended in a way that foreshadows CCA and has since been absorbed into mainline continuity - in the same "all of the above" way that applies to the TV and movie versions of First Gundam. With Thunderbolt, the manga was evidently intended to be its own brand and was serialized outside of Gundam Ace to boot.

This is what makes the animated version somewhat perplexing. In Yasuo Ohtagaki's world, there's no way that the adventures of Amuro Ray were anything like what we've seen previously. Those two visions are mutually exclusive. The anime changes this by giving us a version of Thunderbolt that does conform to the official setting but it has the same ending as volume 3. Even if they never adapt the South Seas Alliance arc, does that make it semi-official by association? Personally, I'd rather have that ambiguity and not see it be put to film :p

To be fair though, it's not like this isn't entertaining on its own terms. Right now I feel like I may only be reading it because Bianca is cool as hell but there's other neat stuff in it. It's just going to be a huge mistake if Sunrise ends up adapting something this beekeeping insane (oh, Karla).

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by tHeWasTeDYouTh » Wed May 25, 2016 5:33 pm

Erisie wrote:After reading Chris' review of the episode, I can't but help agree with him. While very pretty in a visual sense, especially with the cool not-teenage-friendly character designs, the whole thing is more or less pointless. People die left and right for no reason. Nobody has a real impact in the story.

Yasuo Ohtagaki is culpable of having excessive grim just for the heck of it. It's pretty bad and pretty obvious. At the very least, he doesn't fall into the pit of gratuitousness that is Front Mission: Dog Life & Dog Style. I'm all for adult-oriented manga, but that doesn't mean having senseless death everywhere. That's what edgy kids want.
but that happens all the time in war. People are killed in meaningless battles and some people even die after peace has been reached since they never got word of it

(also front mission brutal manga was pretty good)
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by RyuseiDateSRX » Thu May 26, 2016 2:33 pm

Thunderbolt December Sky English Dub trailer

https://www.facebook.com/gundamglobalpo ... 838696058/

Wow. I loved all the voices! Io and Daryl sounded really good! Yeah, people might have gotten tired of Johnny Yong Bosch, but I think he sounded really good as Daryl there, and I'm looking forward to hearing him more! Daryl is my favourite Thunderbolt character. Looking forward to this!

Also, that theme was hype! New theme made for December Sky I guess?

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deathzealot » Thu May 26, 2016 3:58 pm

Isn't JYB doing Orga for IBO as well? Huh. That is two Gundam Shows for his credit.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri May 27, 2016 8:07 pm

Recorde (sic) of Thunderbolt artbook goes on sale the end of June along with the 8th Volume of the manga series.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by tHeWasTeDYouTh » Sun May 29, 2016 9:58 pm

anyone got word on the Thunderbolt ost?
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Sun May 29, 2016 11:05 pm

It goes on sale June 15th.

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by balofo » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:01 am

December Sky confirmed to have an epilogue. Manga scenes(sequel hook) or definite end for the anime version?

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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:17 pm

Just realized i hadn't visited this thread in a while!

To address some previous comments:
Dustman wrote:@Gelgoog Jager:
I already said I'm not interested in continuing but I'll admit freely that if the part about that being a civilian habitat is true (which I find highly questionable when that thing is facing the sun and is surrounded by an obscene number of solar panels) then you've at least got a pretty solid point about the ending being a beautifully implausible fantasy for everybody who isn't Amuro Ray.

Your second point is extraneous technical detail that does little to contradict and in fact concurs with my assertion that the Solar Ray would act as a deterrent. A weapon of strategic influence is by definition a "defensive" weapon. I also described it as a solution to unrest because not only are weapons ultimately intended to end lives and to exert control regardless of classification but also because that was what Gihren used it for when he committed patricide.
First, regarding the colony at the end of the Perfect victory ending of Gihren's Greed, I would encourage you to look for other depictions of Solar Ray: you will notice that generally it's seen surrounded by large mirror in sets of 3 lined up in parallel lines, nothing like what we see in that ending.

Of particular note is the issue is the size of the mirrors: the ones in this depiction are way too small to serve the purpose you suggest. Essentially closed type colonies used 3 giant mirrors lined up as their power source, and they are meant to be the equivalent to the 3 huge mirrors of Island 3 colonies (in fact, these should have an over all larger area considering that they are powering a colony with twice as many urban areas and thus almost twice as much power requirements).

I do will admit that Gihren's Greed depiction of this colony does seem odd, since essentially it seems to use many small mirrors instead of the standard 3 large ones. But ultimately we can indeed see the "lid" on the colony that does rule out it being a colony laser.

On the other hand, may I remind you that unlike this scenario, the EF does end up keeping the Gryps Colony laser functional and at a location it can use to strike Earth or the remaining populated Sides?

As for the Gihren's patricide of Degwin, that actually brings us to the one point that would make a Zeon victory a better ending: a Zeon victory doesn't necessarily mean a Gihren victory. Even within the canon, Gihren is not killed by the EF but by Kycillia, and Gihren's Greed essentially show us that the other Zabis and other people including Char could have taken over. In fact, the novels probably have the best ending for U.C. so far: the EF ends up crippled and Zeon wins the war; Gihren seems to be the winner, but Kycillia kills him and then Char "accidentally" kills her, thus being the one left in charge of Side 3.

Ultimately, my biggest disappointment with the EF remaining the winners of the Universal Century is the further deterioration of things: not only EF politicians retain their privileges and rule over the colonies from Earth, giving little regard to what happens to the population in space, but even worse, we are constantly told that even after relocating 80% of mankind to space, they continue to destroy Earth's environment, which was supposed to be the one thing they were supposed to prevent with the colonization project in the first place. G-Saviour goes as far as saying that the EF finally collapses on U.C. 0218 at the time the Earth becomes uninhabitable.

Back to Thunderbolt, given their similarities, it's hard not to make a comparison between this series and IBO, with both using weapons that rely on connecting an average pilot directly to the machine and allowing them to perform as well or even better than a skilled/newtype pilot. In a way, newtype weapons are a different face of the same idea: an alternate means to control a machine more efficiently, though with the caveat of not just anyone being able to do it (on the other hand, they don't require any surgery).

Which leads me to, the quasi-psycommu system would seem to be the closest there is to a follow-up of this concept: a control interface for non-newtypes that could allow them to perform on a similar level to the real thing. In the UC OVAs, Angelo's first sortie with the Rozen Zulu ends up nothing short of impressive, performing all-range attacks that would have been thought of only being possibly performed by a true newtype.

Just imagine how far could even a regular pilot could go with a MS equipped with both the Reuse and Quasi-Psycommu systems.

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