The Official Gundam Reconguista Anime Thread Mk III

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

Then again maybe this is just discriminating the tone of your post due to your prior posts

It is.

But if you want to talk condescending, let's look at the people who are all "You're just too stupid to understand Tomino's genius!" I'd be lying if I said I didn't take some satisfaction that the man himself admits he wasn't masterfully using subtlety but just handled it poorly just so those people will eat crow.

Of course you can still take what you will from the show, but now we know any "genius" the show had was accidental.

Please quote specifically where anyone said those things.

You're taking what other people have said way out of context. Nobody called Tomino a "genius" with G-Reco (they even pointed out flaws it had and how it could've been improved), much less called you "stupid" for not seeing the subtleties in the story.

[BrentD15]

I certainly hope I didn't sound condescending towards anyone's experience with the show.

My thoughts about the people who didn't like show are that they probably didn't see what the people who did like the show saw.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Please quote specifically where anyone said those things.

Sure, when you can tell me when I said:

'look I have EVIDENCE THE SHOW IS BAD NOW STOP LIKING IT AND AGREE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE IT!'

Obviously people have more sense than to say it outright. I avoided posting in this thread for long periods of time because whenever I'd bring up the show's problems I'd recieve replies with the implication that they weren't problems, it was my fault for not paying enough attention or it totally made sense I just didn't get it. Maybe it was unintentional and just subconciously snuck in there, but it was there. I certainly don't appreciate being treated like an idiot.

And Xenosynth, just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it's not happening. In fact you're less likely to see it since you'd agree with the one side.

[Xenosynth]

That was the implication given off by your posts in here. There's your answer. Again maybe because of how you've come across in talking other shows such as Cross Ange on Skype but that's how you come across to me. Though HalfDemonInuyasha and I have no association so I don't know why you are combining your replies for me and him?

And I don't think I'd agree with a side that says people are idiots for not liking the show. As said, I've had plenty of decent conversations on twitter with others about the show who don't enjoy it, and yet it's been fine and civil. I dunno. Maybe I should do what I meant to and just stick with the mecha and technology and games sections. I think that me and you are both guilty of reading too far into how others are saying things and we are seeing completely different implications. Either way all the arguments you are bringing forth to me I can bring forth to you exactly the same way, and I think that both of us are too stubborn to gain anything from it.

[latenlazy]

Some bad news for you G-Reco lovers: Tomino admits it was bad.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interes ... sta/.87449

Let's not conflate the good/bad debate with comprehensible/incomprehensible debate. Speaking solely on my own behalf, my biggest contention with those who dinged this series was the latter point. Tomino comes out acknowledging that it was inaccessible, but that's not the same as saying there wasn't substance behind it, which was what a lot of people were accusing the show of.

On another note, the nice thing about this interview is that it shoots down the theory that Tomino was just being stubborn (humoured but disappointed by this), but confirms that his intended audience wasn't children.

[Xenosynth]

Some bad news for you G-Reco lovers: Tomino admits it was bad.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interes ... sta/.87449

Let's not conflate the good/bad debate with comprehensible/incomprehensible debate. Speaking solely on my own behalf, my biggest contention with those who dinged this series was the latter point. Tomino comes out acknowledging that it was inaccessible, but that's not the same as saying there wasn't substance behind it, which was what a lot of people were accusing the show of.

On another note, the nice thing about this interview is that it shoots down the theory that Tomino was just being stubborn (humoured but disappointed by this), but confirms that his intended audience wasn't children.

That's one of the reasons I was pissed at how Peter presented the article there. It felt less like he was using the article as critique and more as a weapon against people who dared to enjoy the show.

[latenlazy]

Then again maybe this is just discriminating the tone of your post due to your prior posts

It is.

But if you want to talk condescending, let's look at the people who are all "You're just too stupid to understand Tomino's genius!" I'd be lying if I said I didn't take some satisfaction that the man himself admits he wasn't masterfully using subtlety but just handled it poorly just so those people will eat crow.

Of course you can still take what you will from the show, but now we know any "genius" the show had was accidental.

It wasn't "you're too stupid to understand Tomino's genius". It was "you're too stupid to understand Tomino's message!". Different things

Sometimes masterful use of narrative techniques creates inferior products. Subtlety gets overused to the point where too few people can interpret and understand what's going on. It happens a lot in independent films actually. If you pay attention to what Tomino's saying in the interview, it's that he took the wrong approach for the audience he wanted. That doesn't mean there wasn't a way to understand what he was doing, which is the primary contention a lot of us have with detractors of the series.

That's one of the reasons I was pissed at how Peter presented the article there. It felt less like he was using the article as critique and more as a weapon against people who dared to enjoy the show.

It bothers me that most of us came to the conclusion agreeing that it was flawed, but not nearly as vacuous or nonsensical as detractors were making it to be. Somehow for detractors that qualifies as regarding it a masterpiece?

Obviously people have more sense than to say it outright. I avoided posting in this thread for long periods of time because whenever I'd bring up the show's problems I'd recieve replies with the implication that they weren't problems, it was my fault for not paying enough attention or it totally made sense I just didn't get it. Maybe it was unintentional and just subconciously snuck in there, but it was there. I certainly don't appreciate being treated like an idiot.

I think there's a world of difference between saying "look there's a lot more there if you pay attention and put it together", and "you're too stupid and you didn't pay attention and it's your fault for concluding its bad when". The whole point of discussing a series is to share different takes. If you point out how something is incomprehensible but someone else found it perfectly comprehensible, of course they're going to talk about how they saw things. That's the nature of discussion.

Yet, if I recall correctly, your response to that was literally accusing others of reading too much into things, while on the flip side no one was literally accusing you of being at fault for not seeing what we were seeing. I don't think the negative reactions worked in the direction you think it did. No offence, but interactions with you in this thread makes it seem like you are literally taking ire out of people who are willing to put work into reading what they watch more deeply and sharing their observations. Maybe I'm being off base here, but people who bother with deeper analysis aren't usually trying to look superior to others or make others feel bad. We just genuinely enjoy critical analysis. Of course you don't have to agree with them, but the act of sharing our observations isn't an attempt to win some petty argument. From what I can tell most people in this thread weren't trying to enforce some kind of collective agreement about how good or bad this series is...

[Deacon Blues]

I'm glad he acknowledges that the story was incredibly flawed and that he messed up. That is the sign of a good director. Honestly, what they should do is just make three movies, allowing him to expand/flesh out on a couple areas that were severely lacking to polish off the story. Everything he wanted to tell was there, it just didn't work in the episode counts provided.

Ah well. Guess they can't win them all.

[balofo]

Tomino already said in a interview that compilation movies would be useless since they are too short to fix the story.

Let's see if something happens

[zerogradius]

I've been out of the loop Gundam wise for a while now. I saw the first couple eps of Gundam Reconguista in G but had two problems:

1. the character designs looked too old school for my tastes. It was like watching something from the 70s with today's animation

2. the story progression seemed weaker than Gundam age, which says something

I intended to come back to the series about half way through so I could watch a whole bunch of eps in one go to see if it come across better but I recently found out the series has ended. My question is, was it intended to always be that short (which is a first for a standard TV series, the shortest since Gundam X) or was it cancelled and forced into a lower episode count?

Also, do you think it is worth watching because a lot of what I have heard about it has been mostly negative?

[Destiny_Gundam]

I intended to come back to the series about half way through so I could watch a whole bunch of eps in one go to see if it come across better but I recently found out the series has ended. My question is, was it intended to always be that short (which is a first for a standard TV series, the shortest since Gundam X) or was it cancelled and forced into a lower episode count?

It was known before the show aired that it'd be 26 episodes.

[zerogradius]

I intended to come back to the series about half way through so I could watch a whole bunch of eps in one go to see if it come across better but I recently found out the series has ended. My question is, was it intended to always be that short (which is a first for a standard TV series, the shortest since Gundam X) or was it cancelled and forced into a lower episode count?

It was known before the show aired that it'd be 26 episodes.

I see. Was there a specific reason for that, since most series tend to be about 50 episodes? Did Gundam Build Fighters have anything to do with it?

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

1. the character designs looked too old school for my tastes. It was like watching something from the 70s with today's animation

2. the story progression seemed weaker than Gundam age, which says something

1.) That's more or less the point given G-Reco is basically a successor to Victory Gundam. That plus pure nostalgia.

2.) It's pretty typical with Tomino's Gundam series' all the way back to MSG.

[Destiny_Gundam]

I see. Was there a specific reason for that, since most series tend to be about 50 episodes? Did Gundam Build Fighters have anything to do with it?

This is all I know.

[Vent Noir]

Re Tomino's feelings on the series, he strikes me as one of those people who is their own harshest critic. I know this isn't the first time he's mentioned being dissatisfied with his own work.

[BrentD15]

Yet, if I recall correctly, your response to that was literally accusing others of reading too much into things, while on the flip side no one was literally accusing you of being at fault for not seeing what we were seeing. I don't think the negative reactions worked in the direction you think it did. No offence, but interactions with you in this thread makes it seem like you are literally taking ire out of people who are willing to put work into reading what they watch more deeply and sharing their observations. Maybe I'm being off base here, but people who bother with deeper analysis aren't usually trying to look superior to others or make others feel bad. We just genuinely enjoy critical analysis. Of course you don't have to agree with them, but the act of sharing our observations isn't an attempt to win some petty argument. From what I can tell most people in this thread weren't trying to enforce some kind of collective agreement about how good or bad this series is...

That's the problem with online discussions nowadays.
We can no longer share experiences without being accused of being contemptuous with others that don't agree with us.

[latenlazy]

Re Tomino's feelings on the series, he strikes me as one of those people who is their own harshest critic. I know this isn't the first time he's mentioned being dissatisfied with his own work.

Probably, but he's not wrong about the problems with the series. It's good to know that he recognizes them, and it's really interesting to know that unlike what some of us thought this wasn't intentional.

I sometimes say that all creative works and their makers have something to say, and to only care about entertainment is to forget someone's trying to talk to you. In this case, the creator has some responsibility in making the message perceptible to his audience, and it's good to know when they acknowledge they haven't done that well. That's the mark of someone who understands what they're trying to do.

[HalfDemonInuyasha]

And even if it wasn't intentional, it doesn't necessarily make it bad either.

[BrentD15]

And at least Tomino acknowledges the flaws in his series (unlike some other directors, i.e. Fukuda).

[monster]

And at least Tomino acknowledges the flaws in his series (unlike some other directors, i.e. Fukuda).

I thought I read somewhere that Fukuda wasn't too pleased with GSD either. Then again, it was decently successful, so there's that.