Magical Girls

[Raikoh]

Seems like thanks to Madoka it's impossible to have a magic girl series these days without forcing some dark twist in there, eh?

Ongoing Precures, Vividred Operation, Sailor Moon Reboot, Prisma Illya and upcoming Nanoha Vivid adaptation disagree with you.

[Destiny_Gundam]

Well, I'll give you Vividred, but all the others predate Madoka.

[PrissAsagiri UK]

Since we have a general thread for this, does anyone have an opinion on which Pretty Cure series is the best to start with? As in, both good and accessible. I saw a few episodes of the original series way back in the day and somewhat enjoyed it, but quickly found myself wishing for a larger team that the show didn't seem on course to deliver; it does seem like the sort of franchise where one can just pick a season and watch it more or less in isolation without missing out on too much.

Right now I'm considering Fresh and Smile - is there much of a consensus regarding these two?

[Raikoh]

I haven't watched many Precures (I literally only saw one and am in the middle of Max Heart now), but I thought Futari wa is as good a starting place as any. It has a very minimalist cast, but that's a good thing since it lets you really get to know the characters you do see. Nagisa is so great it's difficult for me to really put it into words. Also: the ultimate forces of darkness doing things like brushing their teeth, arguing over cake, and playing baseball is worth seeing.

First installments tend to establish the general feel of the franchise. I get the impression that Precure is sort of like how Gundam AUs can be watched in any order, but the preferred method by a lot of fans is to watch in production order since you'll be able to catch continuity nods or when they take an earlier idea that had potential and expand upon it (like 00 did with Wing). Of course, this is all just my conjecture.

I've heard that Heartcatch is considered to be one of the (or the single) best by most of the fandom, and it's probably where I'm going to go after I finish Max Heart, production order be damned.

[Vent Noir]

Since we have a general thread for this, does anyone have an opinion on which Pretty Cure series is the best to start with? As in, both good and accessible. I saw a few episodes of the original series way back in the day and somewhat enjoyed it, but quickly found myself wishing for a larger team that the show didn't seem on course to deliver; it does seem like the sort of franchise where one can just pick a season and watch it more or less in isolation without missing out on too much.

Right now I'm considering Fresh and Smile - is there much of a consensus regarding these two?

What Raikoh said regarding the best series to start with. I only saw the first episode of Fresh, and got put off, though I have heard good things from people who have seen more of it and may try and watch it again someday. Smile is probably the lightest series, and there are divided opinions among the fandom over whether it's any good or not. It isn't my favourite series, but anything involving toku fangirl Yayoi always makes me smile (pun intended).

[Henyo]

Since we have a general thread for this, does anyone have an opinion on which Pretty Cure series is the best to start with? As in, both good and accessible. I saw a few episodes of the original series way back in the day and somewhat enjoyed it, but quickly found myself wishing for a larger team that the show didn't seem on course to deliver; it does seem like the sort of franchise where one can just pick a season and watch it more or less in isolation without missing out on too much.

Right now I'm considering Fresh and Smile - is there much of a consensus regarding these two?

having watched all Series.(but have yet to finish Go! Go!) i can say without a doubt that Splash star is the first AU series you should start with. it has great characters(main and side, look no further than Kenta and Miyazako) amusing villains,(KINTOLESKI!) and of course, LOTS OF YURI(the movie.)
and let's not forget the Kiryuu sisters. personally, i prefer Michiru.

the battles wont get physical until much later. but they are up to the original's level i tell ya.

as for Fresh, it was the start of the second era of the Cure series. as such, it incorporated more Tokusatsu elements then the first three seasons. if you're okay with spoilers then i recommend reading this guys articles for reference.

http://ivanhobe.livejournal.com/

[PrissAsagiri UK]

Well, it doesn't seem like there's much of a consensus beyond "give the original another shot," which I may or may not do; regardless, thanks all for chiming in - and for the link, Henyo. I don't much mind spoilers so I'll review that over time.

[Henyo]

the Cure fandom is quite divisive i tell ya. there's also one thing i noticed about said fandom: many wish for a male warrior(or outright Cure) to be included in future series. and while i'm at it,. would you like other Magical girl animes to have them?
the closest example i could recall right now are the Leafe Knight of Pretear. they can fight on their own and give the Pretear powers.(Wearable Bishounens as the english version says.)

[Strike Zero]

If they ever included a male Cure, I'm sure that many (including myself) would riot.

However, one idea I think would be kinda neat is if there was a show where the enemy boss squad was made up of transforming boys. You get your male warriors while managing not to step on the heroine's toes. Not to mention, if they were all pretty enough, they'd surely be popular with all of the girls tuning in as well.

[Henyo]

If they ever included a male Cure, I'm sure that many (including myself) would riot.

However, one idea I think would be kinda neat is if there was a show where the enemy boss squad was made up of transforming boys. You get your male warriors while managing not to step on the heroine's toes. Not to mention, if they were all pretty enough, they'd surely be popular with all of the girls tuning in as well.

with that smiley, i'm guessing the riot is in a good way?(then again, i've been wrong IN A LOT of things.) transforming boys....that'd be hard to do in preCure i think. the last one that could count was Sir Jonathan. but thanks to plot, he didn't get to do much.

perhaps in other Magical Girl series.

[Raikoh]

Honestly, I find myself to enjoy when magical girl series include male characters, whether they be major to the plot (Tuxedo Mask, Yuuno in season 1 of Nanoha, Shaoran) or not. The idea about female empowerment feels more right if the writers aren't just ignoring the existence of two genders. It's like someone else here said: why can't we have a female lead in series where there's a fairly solid male/female ratio? Are we coddling female characters by saying they can't be in the "big boys" sandbox?

Now, this is another question of "how do we define this?" Would someone like Souji in Ore Twintails count, since he's [allegedly] the lead character, but transforms into a woman (and Aika ends up doing most of the fighting anyway)? How about the truckloads of male Nanoha characters who are pretty cool (F*** YEAH, ZAFIRA) but get pushed into the background mostly just because of their Y-Chromosome?

Maybe it's just a byproduct of my own gender, but I wouldn't have a problem with having more male characters appear in magical girl stuff as major characters so long as they're enjoyable... And not just pandering (to EITHER gender, because sometimes they're just sort of husbando-bait like Fujipi).

[Henyo]

ah! i forgot about the boys from Utena. there is also kaito Sinbad from Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne.

as for Souji or Twintails...he counts i think. he(she..oh forget it. XD) did fight well during the first three episodes. anyone here finished kampfer? how does Natsuru fair compare to Tail Red?

one last thing!(Uncle Voice)
YUYUYU Episode 5! Literal Yuri Ship! atmospheric reentry! Yuuna X Togo-san Ship full speed ahead!

[Destiny_Gundam]

You know, I remember a time when two girls could have a strong emotional bond and people didn't automatically assume they were lesbians~

Anyways, it's good that Yuyuyu avoided a predictable outcome. Having a lighthearted looking show suddenly take a dark turn has become such a cliche already.

[Henyo]

You know, I remember a time when two girls could have a strong emotional bond and people didn't automatically assume they were lesbians~

Anyways, it's good that Yuyuyu avoided a predictable outcome. Having a lighthearted looking show suddenly take a dark turn has become such a cliche already.

i hear yeah. but it couldn't be helped nowadays, the male love interest's presence in Magical Girls have dropped by a significant amount. also the Yuri fanboys setting their goggles to high/Kill all males. i have mine set to accept straight BTW.

can't wait for YuYuYu's next episode. i'm betting one peso that the whole vertex thing is a repeating cycle.

also, i'm waiting for a new Cutie Honey. the only decade she didn't have an animated entry is the 80s.

[Destiny_Gundam]

also the Yuri fanboys setting their goggles to high/Kill all males.

Actually in my experience the most vehement yuri fans are female.

I get the lack of/distain for male character thing and so girls can only be shipped together, but isn't there always the option of, ya know, not shipping anyone?

[Strike Zero]

with that smiley, i'm guessing the riot is in a good way?

No, silly, I mean it the classic way involving copious amounts of violence.

[Henyo]

Actually in my experience the most vehement yuri fans are female.

I get the lack of/distain for male character thing and so girls can only be shipped together, but isn't there always the option of, ya know, not shipping anyone?

now where's the fun in that? a little torment i think first, YES~ SIDE GUNS!

i cannot help but quote beast Wars megs.
but really, they are kinda tormenting themselves.

i assumed those who hate males in yuri are boys thanks to a Blog i visit.

http://okazu.yuricon.com/
(additional:http://okazu.yuricon.com/glossary/)

No, silly, I mean it the classic way involving copious amounts of violence

yep. you don'y like males turning into Cures.

moving back to ze Girls,
here are two series i'm looking forward to!

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/A ... ousLadybug
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... -launching

[Destiny_Gundam]

i assumed those who hate males in yuri are boys thanks to a Blog i visit.

Well, the people who harrassed me and accused me of being the anti-Christ because I don't ship NanoFate certainly tried to portray themselves as persecuted females, at the very least. A friend of mine also had some unpleasent experieces in the My HiME fandom.

[zerogradius]

Honestly Madoka isn't as good as everyone says it is. It's still pretty good but too overly reliant on characters holding the idiot ball for the sake of having a bunch of plot twists. It relies too much on shock value to trick the audience into believing it's better than it really is.

Could you elaborate on that? I thought the plot twists were great. At least it was different, unlike most magical girl anime which, at their core, are basically the same.

[Destiny_Gundam]

I suppose I should preface this by saying that I was not surprised in the least when the show turned dark. The minute it was announced some one from Nitro+ was involved I knew it would be messed up.

Let's look at the first big twist.

Spoiler

Mami's death. So, here was have the veteran magical girl who's quite experienced in battle. How does she die? She stands there like an idiot and lets Charlotte chomp on her. Mami never looked away from the witch at all, so she should have seen it coming. As Piccolo would say, "DODGE!" If they showed her beginning to move but it was too fast for her, fine. If they had her avoid the first strike but it got her with the second, fine. Heck, they could have even had her turn her back on it so she didn't see it coming. But no, she stands there like a deer caught in the headlights despite being experienced enough to know better. It's like the writers couldn't think up a reasonable way to kill her off and just went with "durrr, she just does!"

They even make note that Charlotte is some sort of special witch to justify it, yet these 'special' witches never get brought up again (that I recall). So why did Mami get killed by a witch when she's beaten many before? "Durrr, this one was special!"

When you need to warp your characters and setting like that for the sake of getting a twist in there... You're doing it wrong.

Most of the other twists are a case of "Durrr, you never asked!" That might work the first time, but after is when you start asking. But no one ever does so because if they did there wouldn't be any sudden twists out of nowhere to shock the audience!

All stories try to emotionally manipulate the audience by design, but the attempts become waaay too obvious if you half ass it. Consider it like building a proper sense of terror vs throwing in a jump scare. See Higurashi for a good example of "cutesy but then dark."

I get what the big deal is. People went in expecting a cute magical girl show but then it did a sudden 180. The huge shock to the system + the "darker = deep and mature" mentality + being able to tell people "this isn't a girly show this is dark and epic so it's totally okay to admit I like it and I won't be seen as a total creep!" = hype. It's still a fine show, but reports of its quality have been greatly exaggerated.