The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:45 pm

zerogradius wrote:
Dark Duel wrote:Well, all things considered that does seem plausible, in my opinion.
Delta is set in 2067. The original series was set in around 2009 or thereabouts. IIRC Minmay was around 19 at the time, so she would be something like 77 years old as of the time of Delta.
However, if you take the time spent in the space fold, even though 55 years have passed, she would have only spent about 84 days between taking off in 2012 and arriving supposedly in 2067. So even though she would be in her seventies, she would look the same.
Per Macross Chronicle, the time disparity between experienced and subjective time while traveling by fold isn't nearly as severe as Misa made it out to be. (Her limited knowledge was purely theoretical rather than practical.)

Linn Minmay would be (biologically) 70+ years old.

(I'm still betting Lady M will not be a pre-existing character, but rather a new character whose backstory says they were around during the First Space War... like the last few times this has happened.)
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Destiny_Gundam » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:51 pm

And so now at the end of it all we must say a special goodbye...
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Goodbye, Macross tradition. No longer shall we automatically assume the older girl who initially doesn't get along with the protagonist will win. Freyja's victory is justly deserved.

This easily became my favourite Macross entry. I can see why people would complain about it but when they claim nothing happens what they really mean is "there's not enough action scenes!" The series put more focus on the characters and that's what makes it stand out.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by pirx » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:59 am

There are rumors of Delta movie coming.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Soma Taozi » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:29 pm

My thoughts on the finale and series as a whole.
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Put simply, I am disappointed.

With the numerous plots, rivalries, and backgrounds of the characters on both sides I was hoping for a finale with more ‘punching power.’ Instead what we got was…serviceable(?). It wasn’t bad or terrible, it was okay.

Compared to the bombastic finale of Frontier, Delta’s is weaker.

Roid’s final plan boils down to Grace’s plan from Frontier (but on a bigger scale (kinda) with a dash of Human Instrumentality) it feels like we have been here before…only Frontier’s was done better. The biggest difference between the two is time—Frontier’s was spaced over 2 episodes. Delta’s finale was one and had way to much to do in that final episode. Something I will get into in a minute.

There are so many things, in light of this finale, that I question in terms of planning for Delta. Centrally, since both sides were just going to unite anyway, what was the point of that episode when Mirage, Hayate, and Freya were put on trial? That time could have been better spent on the final…or giving us an epilogue.

On that note, the final battle left only 4 minutes to deal with the epilogue. Frontier did exactly the same thing, it annoyed me then and it annoys me now. Only this is worse. What about the King? Will he really pursue peace (and THAT came out of nowhere or am I crazy?)? And thus is the war really over? Did the White Knight die? Is Mirage just giving up on Hayate? What about when Freya dies? How much time does Freya have left? Will the NUNs actually explain themselves to Windmere and make peace? Is the network shut down now that Kumo-Kumo is back? And these are just the OBVIOUS questions.

Are we getting a second season that I just don’t know about it?

Now for the series as a whole:

Delta put the focus far too much on the singers in an attempt to develop all of them. Regardless of if you think they succeeded or failed at developing all the members of Walkure, the fact that we had a complicated war with shades of grey, a love triangle, and an entire enemy faction with different pilots, backgrounds, and history to develop in 26 episodes shows to me—poor planning. That and since every episode they needed to do a musical number (regardless of if it made sense or not), sucked away a ton of time.

At times Delta seemed more like a vehicle to push the songs then actually tell a good story. There was this weird dichotomy, where the elements to tell a war story were there…but then we spent so much time on concerts. I hate to keep saying it, but Frontier had a better balance. It had fewer characters, less singers, and since the Vajra were a faceless enemy the only thing that needed to be explained about them was their history/background.

There were fewer songs as well; I remember episodes in Frontier were no one sang during a battle. It was just a straight dog-fight; Delta did not let that happen once. Oh no! Does that mean I just want action?! :roll:

The romance in Frontier had a larger focus. I am not saying it was done BETTER (because I don’t want to get into THAT argument), but for good or ill, the love-triangle in Frontier played a larger role. It wasn't until episode 23 of DELTA that Mirage and Freya realized they were competing against each other. Where with Ranka and Sheryl it happened almost instantly, which in turn, created more drama. Both series are different beasts, but I still prefer Frontier over Delta. In case you couldn’t tell by now.

Delta would have worked better as a 50 episode series. The characters could have been flushed out and developed, the romance could have had a larger focus and we could have done a few episodes with the more military side of things to keep those fans happy. But, just like Gundam G-Reco, saying it should have been longer does not fix the problems. And while I didn’t hate Delta, I didn’t love it either. It had good ideas, but time and execution were not the strongest.

While Frontier was messy and cliché at times, it was that mess that gave the series personality and why it is so memorable to me. That and it finished strong, Delta unfortunately didn’t. The sense of danger wasn’t there; maybe if the Windmere and Chaos actually had a dogfight instead of the threat being some abstract Human Mind Fusion and remote controlled Drones, I might have felt differently. However, this is what we got and perhaps I will view it differently when I rewatch it in a few years. Until then, better luck next anniversary.

Good points:

-Freya’s health problem wasn’t magically fixed like Sheryl’s.

-Hayate X Freya actually happened! Considering poor Mirage never really did anything except…learn how to fly? I am happy a romance that seemed to be getting focused on actually happened. It was as obvious as Sheryl X Alto and I’m so happy they didn’t go with the ambiguous ending like Frontier’s. But why didn’t you show them kissing Delta? Why?

-The scene where Roid’s plan was activated, with the song, and seeing it spread was well done. It gave me goosebumps. Unfortunately that was the high-point of the whole final episode.

Stay thoughts:

-What was the point of Makina getting shot? She was in pain for an episode, but came to sing anyway? Was it just to give her something to do during the finale? This goes back to the problem with far too many characters with not enough episodes…

-Hey Windmere never actually dealt with the NUN…their grudge is still there. Nothing was solved…You could argue with Roid gone things will change; however, Roid just used the conflict that was building anyway to get what he wanted. The deaths of thousands on Windmere is just not going to be forgotten. Plus does anyone really think NUNs is just going to be okay with an entire fleet of their soldiers (who have families back at home) getting wiped out in episode 25?

-Why give us all those hints about Lady M and never show her? Are they just trying to annoy me?

-Hey remember that arms dealer? What is he going to do now? Besides giving people history lessons, was his goal just to make money?

-Yellow pilot really had nothing to do this entire series; yes I don’t even remember his name. For about 10 episodes I completely forgot he was in the show…

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:55 pm

And once again, Soma says everything brewing in my own mind. Really, the ending was enjoyable and I am not sorry, exactly, that I stuck with Delta.

It just didn't reach its full potential and didn't feel balanced at all. It really was more of a story about the Walkure idol/espionage team, and not, well... Macross.

And now, to go watch the original Macross. Or maybe Delta. I liked what I saw in that finale, for the most part. The animation, as I recall, was phenomenal.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by AceWhatever » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:13 am

Soma Taozi wrote:
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Delta put the focus far too much on the singers in an attempt to develop all of them. Regardless of if you think they succeeded or failed at developing all the members of Walkure
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I still have to go through the last six episodes, but I can already say I don't think this point is true. The members of Walkure had about as much development and screentime as any of the side characters in SMS. In fact they didn't hog nearly as much presence during battles as the first episode led people to believe they would. And when you think about it, it didn't matter how many singers were in Walkure since they were all one group singing one song on one stage most of the time, unlike Frontier giving separate screentime to two separate idols. Delta may have a lot of problems, but I don't think Walkure is one of them (except for Mikomu the walking plot device 8) )

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by pirx » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:51 am

To answer some questions:

There might be a second season or rumored movie to explain things.
In my eyes Delta beat Macross 7 for the role of weakest Macross series.
In music as well.
Maybe i am too old (or not old enough?) to enjoy magical fairy lolis and J-POP.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Soma Taozi » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:39 pm

AceWhatever wrote:
Soma Taozi wrote:
SpoilerShow
Delta put the focus far too much on the singers in an attempt to develop all of them. Regardless of if you think they succeeded or failed at developing all the members of Walkure
SpoilerShow
I still have to go through the last six episodes, but I can already say I don't think this point is true. The members of Walkure had about as much development and screentime as any of the side characters in SMS. In fact they didn't hog nearly as much presence during battles as the first episode led people to believe they would. And when you think about it, it didn't matter how many singers were in Walkure since they were all one group singing one song on one stage most of the time, unlike Frontier giving separate screentime to two separate idols. Delta may have a lot of problems, but I don't think Walkure is one of them (except for Mikomu the walking plot device 8) )
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Let me be clear, I don't think Walkure itself is a problem. I think that the time they spent on them could have been spent on more IMPORTANT things in the story (like actually resolving the conflict). Additionally, besides Freyja, Hayate, Mirage (and that is being generous), Messar and Mikomu, what other characters got ANY (even a dash of) development on Chaos' side? The people that first come to mind is the other singers of Walkure, am I messing something? Who else got any? The other pilots? The underused Zentraedi Captain? The bridge bunnies? I don't know a single thing about any of those people.

The members of Walkure, for good or ill, at least got time to have their back-stories explained. Kaname's desire to get over Mikomu's shadow (that went no where), Makina being mechanically inclined (who getting shot was pointless in the final episodes) and Reina who's backstory as a hacker did help the plot (but did we really need to spend half an episode about how she couldn't fit in when she first joined Walkure?).

So much time wasted on things that, in the end, didn't matter. Especially with the numerous questions I have about the finale. If these development didn't serve the story, why have them? Now if the rumors of a movie are true, great. I hope it fixes some of the problems I have, but as of now I am looking at Delta as a whole and thinking about things to cut that would have given the creators TIME to finished the story on a better note.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by pirx » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:18 am

Rumors about movie/2nd season might be just someone's wishful thinking as well.
I would say 2nd season is impossible, there is nothing left to tell.

Delta movie(s) are actually plausible - could be in the same style as Frontier movies - alternate retelling of the story with an improved/different ending. My position on this: unless studio oficially comes out and says they are doing the movie, we should consider Delta is done and over.

Delta tried to redo (reboot) Frontier but on smaller scale and did not succeed.
Not even talking about that mysterious "Lady M" who did not get any screen time or any introduction whatsoever. We were left clueless.
Arad does not gets much development and he is not nearly as charismatic as Roy or Ozma. Hayate ... well he's way "too off" from this world, it's just improbable. He's no Hikary, nor Isamu nor Basara, not even an Alto. Okay, love triangle is resolved. But that's about it. Battles .. reuse of Macross attack, c'mon, at least Frontier had some originality, while same scene in Delta felt like... soft of downgraded.
In short i am left with the same feeling as after Star Wars Episode VII - too little new things and general "not enough" feeling left over.
They did try to mix music and piloting skills - that was new, and YF-31 plus Drakens are really stylish. That sword bit was nice.

Otherwise - disappointed.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by AceWhatever » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:56 am

Soma Taozi wrote:
SpoilerShow
Let me be clear, I don't think Walkure itself is a problem. I think that the time they spent on them could have been spent on more IMPORTANT things in the story (like actually resolving the conflict). Additionally, besides Freyja, Hayate, Mirage (and that is being generous), Messar and Mikomu, what other characters got ANY (even a dash of) development on Chaos' side? The people that first come to mind is the other singers of Walkure, am I messing something? Who else got any? The other pilots? The underused Zentraedi Captain? The bridge bunnies? I don't know a single thing about any of those people.

The members of Walkure, for good or ill, at least got time to have their back-stories explained. Kaname's desire to get over Mikomu's shadow (that went no where), Makina being mechanically inclined (who getting shot was pointless in the final episodes) and Reina who's backstory as a hacker did help the plot (but did we really need to spend half an episode about how she couldn't fit in when she first joined Walkure?).
After finishing the show, I still dispute this claim but we're gonna have to agree to disagree on what counts as character development. All Delta did is establish character traits for the Walkure singers but otherwise all the singers sans Freyja are pretty one dimensional and undeveloped (especially Mikumo who can't even be CONSIDERED a character until the last six episodes). The rest of the supporting cast are pretty much the same as their Frontier counterparts if you don't count half of the Frontier cast being romantically paired off with each other.

I doubt less focus on Walkure as a whole would have made the plot better because Delta was wasting time on a lot of things. Windermere was just a a typical Gundam-style opposing faction heavy on the fanaticism and victimizing claptrap (more focus on characters amirite? 8) ).
SpoilerShow
Fighter pilots were used to infiltrate a planet on foot TWICE. And a merchant can just show up wherever and whenever he wants to make exposition dumps and cram the science mumbo jumbo aspect of singing into the original Macross.
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I was expecting a typical Mirage win for traditions's sake but I wasn't discounting a surprise upset which actually happened. Now I'm still all for Hayate x Mirage but I was a tad disturbed by some of the comments going around about how Freyja will probably die in a few years leaving Hayate free to go back to Mirage...like holy ZOINKS people...
I'm wondering, given that Delta barely managed to fill out one topic and several weeks would go by without any discussion, were most people here overly "meh" on this show? Or is it just less forum activity in general?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:03 pm

AceWhatever wrote: I'm wondering, given that Delta barely managed to fill out one topic and several weeks would go by without any discussion, were most people here overly "meh" on this show? Or is it just less forum activity in general?
Likely has little to do with forum activity and more with the overall reaction to the show. All the excitement from the 1st half of the show was squandered during the 2nd half. Because of that, the overall feeling became "Wow" to "Meh". All the potential of the show never materialized and even when it did, it came too late to make a difference.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by AceWhatever » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:28 am

Yeah it's kinda sad that the show ended up being so underwhelming that people weren't even angry enough to complain about it.

What does everyone think of the claim that the general beats of Delta's plot mirror that of Macross 30's a little too much?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:18 am

Might as well complain, if we're actually desperate enough that net-hate is welcome. *Laughs*

My biggest gripe was the fold quartz Hayate wore everywhere he went. He slept with the thing still around his neck sometimes, right? No one ever reacted to it like it was unusual, or the fact that it had Windermeran origins, presumably so given it had wings on it, and we all know the Windies were crazy over wings and stuff. Or, most of all, that it might have been the cause of his issues with Freyja's singing? I mean, come on, did not at least ONE person on the medical staff or command think twice about a fold-enhancing magic crystal being a little bit of the, if not direct cause, of the problem? Hmm?

And just what was that thing anyway? It was responsible for disrupting the Roidmind, to some extent. Was it the missing Mcguffin key Roid needed to make everyone become One for sure? And where did Immelman find the thing exactly? Winderemere, I presume, but where? Just lying there? Given everyone's reaction, is it commonplace to find fold-enhancing rocks lying around?

Sorry, was holding that in the whole series. I'm done now. Since I really don't care that much... the series left a "heh, that's done" feeling.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by YokozunaBulldozer » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:16 am

Finally aboard the Delta so to speak, finished episode 2.
Just noticed this is the second time a voice actor on a Gundam show that aired not too long before the Macross show is the protagonist of a Macross show. First Nakamura with 00 as that Virgo samurai now Uchida with Iron-Blooded and TRY.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Iris Scope » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Last time I kept up with Delta was ep. 19 with the big lesson in Macross history. Is it wrong of me to feel annoyed when the original Macross theme song played when it got to that point? Don't know why but it just felt tacked on.

As for how the triangle was at that point, I adored the Hayate/Mirage scene at the end so when I do find the time to finish the remaining episodes, I have the feeling i'm going to come out of it pretty disappointed with the end result unless say a movie does come and maybe change the situation.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:35 pm

Iris Scope wrote:Last time I kept up with Delta was ep. 19 with the big lesson in Macross history. Is it wrong of me to feel annoyed when the original Macross theme song played when it got to that point? Don't know why but it just felt tacked on.
Don't know. I never minded it since it was an exposition episode.
As for how the triangle was at that point, I adored the Hayate/Mirage scene at the end so when I do find the time to finish the remaining episodes, I have the feeling i'm going to come out of it pretty disappointed with the end result unless say a movie does come and maybe change the situation.
Prepare to be disappointed then.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by SonicSP » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:12 pm

Finished watching the show from start to finish within a few weeks. Purposely didn't follow it week to week because binging my preferred method of watching anime and I rarely follow anime week to week, well because patience lol.

I was honestly really skeptical with the first few episodes but by the end of it I think Delta is probably my favorite Macross series to date.

There's just a certain energy about the characters that I like, and I find most characters of the show to be pretty likable and not off putting - which is really saying something because usually I find someone to hate my guts out in a Macross show. It's overall a very positive feeling show but at the same time I love most of the politics too

I also find Walkure as a whole to be pretty likable, even if they're not that deeply developed. I like seeing Mikumo acting like some mysterious Jedi Master-like figure and do whatever the hell she wants most of the time, and I like seeing Kaname handles just about most of the mundane administration/research stuff while being a full performing field member.

I do think the second cour started out poorly though with some poor pacing issues early on. Some of those episodes could have been used for other stuff. The final arc was really really good though save the final episode - which was really meh and a cop out but I sorta expected it. I also kinda liked the actual twist behind Mikumo's background - although they totally could have done more with that one than they actually did.

Really my biggest problem is really the ending, very anticlimactic with no progress on the geopolitical side. The writers really wrote themselves into a wall there without having to finally finish it off. It either need. That Lady M thing feels like it's just hanging there too, they really need to cover more on the NUNS project on the. Seriously they needed an episode or something where Lady M just shows up and explained what Mikumo is, preferably the episode before the last one because that episode was just wasting screentime to explain the Protoculture research project more on the UN side. A part of me feels like they're just holding some info out for a sequel ore retelling, just in case they ever wanted to make one.

I do agree that there probably isn't enough story material to make a second season though without invoking some sort of new threat that requires singing to stop, though there might be enough to make a sequel movie. More likely though we'll get a movie retelling if they ever decide to do something.

I'm okay with the love triangle, sure it wasn't that much of chance for Mirage but after the huge drama and emotional roller coaster that was Frontier's, it's nice to have a more tame one. In fact, I think this is the only Macross series save Zero where I did not ended up hating one of the triangle participants.

In the end, I do have some problems with the show and like most anime, some of the arcs and storyline threads can be handled better but as a whole I still find a great many things to like about this show and I am grateful for watching it, even with the poor ending.

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:54 pm

so, anyone keeping tabs on how this series sales' is doing? BDs, Cds and whatnots.
that's one way to tell if we'll be getting more stuff yes?
i'd also like to know the reception of the series as a whole on the Japanese side.
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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by pirx » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:42 am

Rewatching Delta now. Interesting that Berger mentions that they received some message from Megaroad-1 through subspace and "that time when she (Lady M) made her debut". Implying that mysterious "Lady M"=Minmay??? and that Megaroad-1 exists somewhere and made it?

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Re: The Official Macross Delta Anime Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:18 pm

pirx wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:42 am
...? and that Megaroad-1 exists somewhere and made it?
It's never been said that Megaroad-01 was destroyed. Only that they lost communication.
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