The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:31 pm

LightningCount wrote:
Amion wrote:I don't appreciate Kycilia's more ruthless interpretation, then. One of the best things about the Zabis to me was how mostly human they were. Right now, only poor Dozzle has escaped with any inkling of humanity in tact. (Ignoring Garma, who gets it)

Kycilia's talk with Char indicated she had a softer side, one that kind of reminded me of Mineva, for some reason. It lent depth into her and Char's past, which is now changed... that gave her a more human light. Turning her into the real schemer just seems like poor drama for the sake of it. Not that it's impossible or unlikely in a realistic sense, of course. But even so...
Amion, I agree on this. There is a lot I like about The Origin, but this new take on Kycilia doesn't totally jive with me. That's part of why I don't know if all of 0079 should be redone in this style (I especially don't like hearing above that she helps bring about her father's end in this telling). That being said, from what has happened so far, I could still see her evolving into who she becomes later, I suppose. I mean, at this point, she's just trying to assert herself in a largely cutthroat, all-business family. And her youth combined with the outright abuse from her eldest brother could explain the parade plot she seemingly carried out in Episode 1. However, I'm still debating with myself whether or not she would have been the one to accidentally kill off the real Char. On the other hand...maybe her later sympathy for the man we know as Char is a sign of respect for him having made it as far as he had despite her early attempts, combined with her mellowing with age and successes/failures of her own. I thought her protection of the Deikun kids and their mother early in Episode 1 was fairly in-character.
Zeonista I may be, but I was not sorry to see the last of the Zabis, bar Garma and Minerva. Whatever good they had managed to do was outweighed by the bad, and the final round of betrayals at the end of the One Year War was just the final grab for the throne with a chance to arrest some of the bad decisions made since Loum. Degwin got a little wisdom in his older days, but the only real Zeonist was Gihren, which was shuddersome in its own right. The only half-decent one of the adults was Dozzle, who was not clever enough to be ambitious and just loyally set the Inner Sphere on fire at the behest of his father and eldest brother. So much for the historical soap opera of the mid-Universal Century.

Now, Tomino wrote the Zabis as a decidedly opportunistic bunch, as if a family of merchant princes from the Italian renaissance or a daimyo dynasty from the Warring States had been brought forward in time to Side 3 and been given the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Now, the Origin story followed his lead, and was a real prize in explaining the back story of the republic-cum-principality to those of use who had not been alive in 1931 or 1791 to see the historical process of the self-interested supplanting the selfless in action. The Zabis were still not ee-vil in the Galactic Empire format, they hijacked a revolution for fun and profit and control, and then had to pull things together before the Federation could make up its collective mind on how to deal with them. Add in the temptaion of Zeonism as a ready-made banner and cover for aggressive expansion and reward with space-age weaponry... Power corrupts, but absolute power is really nifty! :D
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:48 pm

Zeonista wrote:
LightningCount wrote:
Amion wrote:I don't appreciate Kycilia's more ruthless interpretation, then. One of the best things about the Zabis to me was how mostly human they were. Right now, only poor Dozzle has escaped with any inkling of humanity in tact. (Ignoring Garma, who gets it)

Kycilia's talk with Char indicated she had a softer side, one that kind of reminded me of Mineva, for some reason. It lent depth into her and Char's past, which is now changed... that gave her a more human light. Turning her into the real schemer just seems like poor drama for the sake of it. Not that it's impossible or unlikely in a realistic sense, of course. But even so...
Amion, I agree on this. There is a lot I like about The Origin, but this new take on Kycilia doesn't totally jive with me. That's part of why I don't know if all of 0079 should be redone in this style (I especially don't like hearing above that she helps bring about her father's end in this telling). That being said, from what has happened so far, I could still see her evolving into who she becomes later, I suppose. I mean, at this point, she's just trying to assert herself in a largely cutthroat, all-business family. And her youth combined with the outright abuse from her eldest brother could explain the parade plot she seemingly carried out in Episode 1. However, I'm still debating with myself whether or not she would have been the one to accidentally kill off the real Char. On the other hand...maybe her later sympathy for the man we know as Char is a sign of respect for him having made it as far as he had despite her early attempts, combined with her mellowing with age and successes/failures of her own. I thought her protection of the Deikun kids and their mother early in Episode 1 was fairly in-character.
Zeonista I may be, but I was not sorry to see the last of the Zabis, bar Garma and Minerva. Whatever good they had managed to do was outweighed by the bad, and the final round of betrayals at the end of the One Year War was just the final grab for the throne with a chance to arrest some of the bad decisions made since Loum. Degwin got a little wisdom in his older days, but the only real Zeonist was Gihren, which was shuddersome in its own right. The only half-decent one of the adults was Dozzle, who was not clever enough to be ambitious and just loyally set the Inner Sphere on fire at the behest of his father and eldest brother. So much for the historical soap opera of the mid-Universal Century.

Now, Tomino wrote the Zabis as a decidedly opportunistic bunch, as if a family of merchant princes from the Italian renaissance or a daimyo dynasty from the Warring States had been brought forward in time to Side 3 and been given the keys to the kingdom, so to speak. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. Now, the Origin story followed his lead, and was a real prize in explaining the back story of the republic-cum-principality to those of use who had not been alive in 1931 or 1791 to see the historical process of the self-interested supplanting the selfless in action. The Zabis were still not ee-vil in the Galactic Empire format, they hijacked a revolution for fun and profit and control, and then had to pull things together before the Federation could make up its collective mind on how to deal with them. Add in the temptaion of Zeonism as a ready-made banner and cover for aggressive expansion and reward with space-age weaponry... Power corrupts, but absolute power is really nifty! :D
Dare I speak for the wise Count? But humor my answer, Zeonista.

I agree with what you said, but I think you misunderstand my complaint. I was very happy to see Kycillia gone by the end as well. and Dozzle's demise brought no tears. But that's how real tragedies, according to the original definition, are best played. The deaths bring closure to the tragic individual's life.

But it's rare for people to feel anything but revulsion for eevil people. The Origin takes things just a bit too far. Tomino demonstrated humane balance. Yes, the Zabis were basically the worst Humanity had to offer, at least racked up a death toll unequaled by their predecessors. Ghiren was basically Hitler. His brother was merciless when ordered and his sister was ruthless in pursuit of her goals.

Even so, that didn't make them entirely rotten. They were humans, like Hitler, capable of loving their family or close relatives. Able to feel, for the most part, and behave like other people. Of course, they were evil. Ghiren was willing to murder his father when it became necessary for the fulfillment of his ambitions. Kycillia cast aside love for righteous vengeance against patricide, and all of them, sans (Probably, hopefully) Garma, were willing to "make the sky fall" and turn entire colonies into gas ovens.

Origin, however, makes the big lost mistake in all this: that the people, or family, who did these things were human beings. It's like Churchill warned (or was it him, now? My history's muddy today) of twisting into the very thing one is trying to defeat, and all that. Instead of keeping some level of humanity, the Origin takes careful note to mar or sanctify the characters we see on-screen such that the Zabis appear utterly despicable without even a scent of arbitrary goodness. They've been stereotyped.

This applies to generally everyone. Ramba Ral and Hamon are flawlessly nice and noble. Poor Astraia was entirely sane and innocent. Poor Sayla is shown as being an angel among demons, despite having plenty of slip-up moments on White Base to prove she's not a selfless paragon of righteousness. Casval is portrayed as an absolute magnificent Bastard, played up to 11, as has been mentioned by others, to the point that we are led to believe he has ALWAYS been the Char of CCA, rather than one who was driven to such extremes by poor life choices and obsession.

The Zabis suffer the worst, seeing as they just don't get as much screen-time, all taken into account. They are the monsters, the mustache-twirling leadership of unquestionable evil and fascism and autocracy-gone-wrong. It's hard to find even a few scenes where Kycillia, for instance, is even smiling warmly as she did to Char in MSG. It's no question she's a manipulator or insidious witch, but Tomino left enough up to viewer interpretation to believe there were shreds of humanity at least hiding the monster.

The Origin throws such finesse aside and gives us a Bright-slapping elder brother Guerilla, a vengeful female snake, an ominously cold master of strategy, Guerrillabear, and a spoiled rich kid (who I don't think is shown in a very bad light, honestly. Even during Dawn Rebellion his whole deal was trying to toughen himself. That's a noble goal, he was just so coddled that he didn't know how to even start)+plus father who's long since progressed into tired Grandfather mode.

To do Count justice, seeing as I am trying to reply for him as well to some small extend, let us take Wing as example. :)

Heero Yuy is quite complicated if taking all the material we have of him as a whole, and reading between lines for subtle clues as to how his mind works, which is often enough not even given to us. However, he is the first real "stoic" MC. We now have a few more of his archetype to look at, such as, say, Mikazuki or Setsuna. Both could be described as, at least in their show's S1s, to be relatively flat and stoic. While I am aware Setsuna does evolve out of his shell, and Mika is generally more emotive in a cute, disgruntled child way, it's perhaps not wrong to accuse them of being rather too emotionless, like Heero, but without some of the subtle growth he experiences. To summarize: they are, or at least appear without effort from the viewer, to be one-dimensional, or plain in their purpose and mindset.

I think that might not be a good example, as there's a whole thread there for debate. :( So let's all go back to our favorite whipping boy, Kira Chr-err, Yamato. He might not have started off as a caricature, but he ends up as one of himself. And then we have Kio Asuno, Banager Links, Sayla (for a moment!) in Origin's episode 1, and who knows who else I'm forgetting. The "I's too god to kill" is definitely a symptom of poor character development because it is often shown as being one-dimensional, same as with the Stoic Teenage Assassin/Guerrilla/Gundamu!/brat reference. Even if these people are in fact multi-faceted, they do come across contrary to this, and that's where I fear for the Origin's characters, including the fascinating Zabis.

All in all, yes I enjoyed the Origin immensely. It's coming home for me almost as much as it surely is for you, fellow Zeonist :wink: . But I don't want to be immune to its less savory aspects. I wouldn't go so far as to say the story itself is bad, or that its characterization is a SEED D*st*ny class ruin, not at all. However, much of the joy in watching the Origin relies heavily upon our beloved masterpiece.

And while everything I've seen of the OYW Origin manga is delicious to my tastes, I must ask how much of it is buttery stylization over meaty substance? Many of us watch as Anime slides into the grime of one-dimensional, of style over substance, of boobs over banter, of lazy CGI over hard-crafted art, etc. :P What I want to honestly be sure of is that we UC fans aren't enjoying The Origin for the same reason Destiny fans enjoyed its pandering. Are we, to a clearly lesser extent, being pandered? Are our udders being milked without our knowing? Have we become the cow, from which Bandai's hands are masterful squeezing dry for profit, by offering us all the fanservice that we want?

The Origin OYW that I've see, as said, appealed. But why? Because of character development I'd never seen? Or because we get an Epic Sayla(TM)? Or because every vehicle has had its late 70's zing replaced with sexy-awesome redesign? Are we screaming for a remake of the gritty, imperfect diary of a bunch of war-victims-turned-soldiers? Or are we getting fanfiction that has embellished and banished all flaws and flimsy? If that's so, where do the real differences between Seed and The Origin really begin, outside of world setting? Or from Destiny? Aren't we treading awfully close?

It seems to me Bandai has been leery of a full-fledge adaption not just because of profit concerns, but for fear they may in fact be doing exactly what I'm saying. If so, The Origin might end up deforming MSG the same way a failed plastic surgery was meant to fix the patient's face. Surely it's not so bad, but how far away is it?

Good Lord, what have I written? Apologies, all! Just putting down my thoughts. (A few too many, looks like...)
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by LightningCount » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:46 pm

I think my post must have been misunderstood. As Amion expressed, I wasn't sad to see the Zabi family go or disappointed in their existence within the story--they're actually one of the hallmarks of 0079, as Zeonista extrapolated--I was just concerned about the loss of human subtleties there, and some more than others.

Amion, you basically covered the gist of what my response would have been, and then took it to another level. (The shout-out to Heero was a nice touch.) There is a lot to unpack in your post, and I think you might be onto something. I'll have to reexamine things myself; I'm not sure the pandering is quite to the level you described yet, but it definitely is a slippery slope, for sure. I can't say I haven't had those thoughts at times, but I sort of brushed them aside, especially with what I've been seeing from Iron-Blooded Orphans, which is, no offense, kind of a mess (based on S1). I guess the only food for thought I'd add now, which backs up your central point, is that I've come to the conclusion over the years that creative works that are rough around the edges usually have more impact in the long run, and when you try to iron out those edges, you almost inherently end up with "six of one, half a dozen of another" results, and even that can tend to lean toward a lesser end.

I'd like to write more, I think, (I'd even probably say some controversial nice things about Destiny!), but I am not able to right now. I'll try to get to it someday when my thoughts are more organized and I have more time to type. I will say I'm just about done with IBO Season 1, which I'm trying to process, and I think my mind's made up about it. (In essence, no offense to all the effort that's gone into it, IBO is Cliffs Notes of good ideas/scenes within a scatterbrained, choppy, unconfident plot with a majority of characters that can't quite get over the hump of bland-to-decent. This is far more than "rough around the edges," and just repeatedly feels underwhelming--more akin to the phrase "a day late and a dollar short." Another analogy: It reminds me of those old school projects where you cut out a picture and paste it into the corresponding outline on a page with multiple, differently shaped outlines; except, with IBO, the writing seems to keep pasting the wrong pictures in the wrong outlines. "Timing" is its biggest problem, which is even more fundamental than pacing, affecting everything from action to characters to plot. Last analogy: It's like, someone will call out, "Exit, stage right," and the character will go left or maybe wasn't even on the stage yet. Still, as a whole, it's somehow not exactly awful, and for better or worse, I haven't really seen anything like it in Gundam...But I've already said too much here.)

So, with that, I'll surrender the floor to Zeonista, whose premise about the historical references within the Zabi family were quite on point.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:25 pm

Glad you approved, Count. :D

And yes, I too brushed aside my musings, and was very close to not even typing them at all! But I felt it good to do so, and placehold such misgivings as a reference point for later introspection on my casual analysis. Perhaps I will come back and say, "aha! I told you so, I told you so!" while jumping up and down like a caffeinated rabbit. Or perhaps read back over it and think, "Good grief, that sounded paranoid!"

For now, I am enjoying and waiting in breathless anticipation for The Origin's conclusion, and hopeful MSG Reboot, which might just as well be in the wishbin coffin with Crossbone Gundam's mystical anime adaption we all know is never going to happen. But I wanted to take a step back from my hype and examine, if for no other reason than to clearly define my own premise for what and why I enjoy and anticipate something. What one learns to understand, one can control, after all. What one can control, can be replicated... and that's important for writing of all persuasions. :D

Also, IBO Season 2 has been noticably better than S1. I may agree that the characterization has probably still been awkward, but things are more focused than in S1, despite the more scattered plot. It may well be a case of Tomino-syndrome. The latter half of the work is better than its beginning, having used it as a stepping stone. But that doesn't answer or deny any complaint about IBO, and it shouldn't.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by zetatype » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:46 pm

Amion wrote:Big snip
There's some stuff that I would like to address but first I have a question. How much of the Origin manga have you read?

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:16 pm

zetatype wrote:
Amion wrote:Big snip
There's some stuff that I would like to address but first I have a question. How much of the Origin manga have you read?
Not much, which is why I'd be best to back up and ask the forum goers who have: exactly how much is changed during the OYW arc? Because what I've seen so far is clearly not enough to make an accurate judge of the whole thing, and was a few years back (I think I got to Char being interrogated by Kycillia on Earth before Jaburo).

But what I have seen appears to be rather minor changes, some for the better or for coolness factor, like the old Admiral at Side 7 going out and attacking the incoming Zakus, and so on.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:22 pm

Amion: It was a most excellent reply! I admit I have become more than a little disaffected with the Zabi family in recent years. It colored my response, which was too long to permit a proper balance. For better or for worse, after the passing of Zeon Zum Deikun the independence movement needed strong leadership if it was to endure and succed, and the Zabis were ready to provide that strong leadership. It's a pity they took the low road instead of the high road, but that was part of the realistic setting of the Universal Century, which went much further than merely presenting the Zaku and Gundam as mechanically probable combat vehicles.
Amion wrote:Even so, that didn't make them entirely rotten. They were humans, like Hitler, capable of loving their family or close relatives. Able to feel, for the most part, and behave like other people.
This ability to act like regular people away from the spotlight was the saving grace to the Zabis. Degwin can cosset Garma while regretting his earlier ambition that made his older children vicious schemers. Gihren can step outside of human-computer mode to make some excellent speeches that make us believe he is a believer. (And his secretary thinks he is a noble person who is sacrificing his personal happiness for The Cause.) Kycilia is loyal to the family, and one wonders what might have happened if Char had let her live long enough to rally the exiles at Axis. (Sometimes self-interest is a good balance to ideals, no?) My friend and former froum member Dominion-kun really likes the Origin perspective of Dozzle as a big lug who values loyalty and guts more than anything.

Those features have made the Zabis more comprehensible and believable as the leaders who could garner the loyalty of the people. Degwin and Gihren were adamant in claiming that Zeonism was a just cause and worth the struggle, and it was that repeated claim that made them appealing to so many people. (There is also the Japanese Zeon fandom that probably identifies the Zeon remnants with defiant ronin, but that is entire different topic for another day.) I have often wondered if the routes available in Gihren's Ambition could have happened if the mantle of leadership was not left to a babe in arms.
Origin, however, makes the big lost mistake in all this: that the people, or family, who did these things were human beings. It's like Churchill warned (or was it him, now? My history's muddy today) of twisting into the very thing one is trying to defeat, and all that. Instead of keeping some level of humanity, the Origin takes careful note to mar or sanctify the characters we see on-screen such that the Zabis appear utterly despicable without even a scent of arbitrary goodness. They've been stereotyped.
There is something to this POV. The Origin story is unashamedly pro-Char all the way, even if it is also honest in the human costs involved. The traditional Japanese reference towards personal revenge as opposed to sanctioned vengeance is "the road to hell", and Casval-cum-Char strides along it with a firm step. It will be left to later-set stories for the older and wiser tragic hero to wonder if everything he had done had been worth it. But at the same time, if Casval Ren Deikun is the hero, then the Zabis become the villainous usurpers who took the rightful heir's place. Jinba Ral's paranoia is a bit to blame here, since the daring escape makes it quite academic if Degwin Zabi could have countenanced the political murder of his friend and former leader's minor children.
The Origin throws such finesse aside and gives us a Bright-slapping elder brother Guerilla, a vengeful female snake, an ominously cold master of strategy, Guerrillabear, and a spoiled rich kid (who I don't think is shown in a very bad light, honestly. Even during Dawn Rebellion his whole deal was trying to toughen himself. That's a noble goal, he was just so coddled that he didn't know how to even start)+plus father who's long since progressed into tired Grandfather mode.
This is a magnificent denunciation, and I must save it for future quotation! I think the initial bad impression does come from the quick coup d'etat which has no explanation other than its own perceived necessity. That being said, the events do have to explain why Casval ends up distrusting and then hating the Zabis instead of becoming part of the Zeon Prinicpality's ruling elite.
To do Count justice, seeing as I am trying to reply for him as well to some small extend, let us take Wing as example. :)
It was a good example in inward characterization as opposed to outward appearances. :)
The Origin OYW that I've see, as said, appealed. But why? Because of character development I'd never seen? Or because we get an Epic Sayla(TM)? Or because every vehicle has had its late 70's zing replaced with sexy-awesome redesign? Are we screaming for a remake of the gritty, imperfect diary of a bunch of war-victims-turned-soldiers? Or are we getting fanfiction that has embellished and banished all flaws and flimsy? If that's so, where do the real differences between Seed and The Origin really begin, outside of world setting? Or from Destiny? Aren't we treading awfully close?
Hmm, there is much to consider in this statement. I do not mind being pandered to myself in terms of passing fluff, but the classic and milestone anime need some careful consideration that the original good parts are kept with all the embellishments.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:45 pm

Oh, I forgot to mention that I love your new signature quote, Zeonista. *Evil Grin*

May the true Celestial Beings bring Judgement to the Gundams for all their slain kin across the franchise. :twisted:

Yes, I'm kinda unpacking my own words. It's rare I find myself so insightful. I must be close to awakening my Newtype potential. :roll: :lol:

Personally I don't find Char's desire for revenge wrong or unjustified. In a lot of ways he knew exactly where to stop, such as not killing Mineva. But what got to me was how merciless he appears even as a child. Gunning down the Feddies wasn't what did it so much as how it seems to fail to affect him at all.

But I guess he was always phlegmatic, our tragic hero, and never really opened up on screen, which is why he's so often victim to misconceived notions on his motives. What's so sad is this is done as often within the story as it is on the couches of our viewers. It is no wonder he became frustrated often and brooded in silent darkness aboard the Argama. Alas, but by the time he decided to take his rightful place on the throne for his fellow spacenoids, it was already far too late to change things peacefully, and without catastrophic means...
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Erisie » Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:08 pm

Amion wrote: Personally I don't find Char's desire for revenge wrong or unjustified. In a lot of ways he knew exactly where to stop, such as not killing Mineva. But what got to me was how merciless he appears even as a child. Gunning down the Feddies wasn't what did it so much as how it seems to fail to affect him at all.
(emphasis mine)

This is an argument that I've probably elaborated before, so my apologies if I'm beating a dead horse here. Throughout The Origin (manga in particular, but also in the anime), Casval Deikun shows clear signs of psychopathy, more blatant than at any part in 0079. Some of the items in Hare's Psychopathy Checklist fit Casval almost too precisely:

- glib and superficial charm (duh...)
- grandiose estimation of self
- need for stimulation (that episode of the manga in Gibraltar)
- pathological lying
- cunning and manipulativeness (his whole relationship with Garma)
- lack of remorse or guilt (personally killing Murata in the manga)
- shallow affect
- callousness and lack of empathy (again, Garma)
- parasitic lifestyle
- poor behavioral controls
- sexual promiscuity
- early behavior problems (his issues in school during Texas)
- lack of realistic long-term goals

Just to be clear, I don't know whether Yasuhiko made this characterization on purpose.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:31 pm

I would argue the behavioral problems in high school, as per the anime version of Origin, could be disregarded. Psychology tests don't usually account for the extraordinary circumstances Casval went through, and the terror and paranoia of being followed by murderous assassins could and should make someone more prone to less-than-typical behavior. Let's not forget a knight in armor attacked them in their home, skewered a family friend to the wall and tried to murder them the same way. That's GOT to knock some screws loose.

There's definitely a lot to dissect with him, but I can only agree with your points, Erisie.
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:40 pm

Amion wrote:Oh, I forgot to mention that I love your new signature quote, Zeonista. *Evil Grin*
Thanks, it is good to be praised for my scribblings here. :)
Yes, I'm kinda unpacking my own words. It's rare I find myself so insightful. I must be close to awakening my Newtype potential. :roll: :lol:
It happens from time to time. For the time being your soul has escaped Earth's gravity again. :D
But I guess he was always phlegmatic, our tragic hero, and never really opened up on screen, which is why he's so often victim to misconceived notions on his motives. What's so sad is this is done as often within the story as it is on the couches of our viewers.
You are on to something here. Char Aznable is a very private person, who reveals little of himself to others, even those he cares about. It has become quite the event peg for UC writers over the years! Even in non-animated stories like Char's Deleted Affair, he is guarded and holds people at length. Then again, his young life has left an impression of suspicion verified and justified, so the man shies away from people at the same time he is out in front of the charge or the crowd. Maybe Lalah was the only person who knew his true self?
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Amion » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:05 pm

I think Lalah was a good candidate for being one of the few people who understood him, which may have led to Char's worldview shifting so favorably toward his father's philosophies, only to have the Gryps Conflict shatter them beyond recovery... and then down came the meteors.

Could be Haman was an attempt to replicate what he had with Lalah, but in the end she wasn't able to let go of her ambition. At any rate their relationship is an interesting dynamic to LalahxChar. Both were newtypes, but one was an innocent girl while the other became a ruthless dictator bent on conquest. We never really get the full story with Char on that, save that he forsook one and never stopped grieving for the other. (Or hating Amuro for her loss)
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Erisie » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:33 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:So I noticed that there was an absence of a director in this particular episode... Imanishi is said to have been fired and/or quit after Episode 3 came out... which seems rather odd to me. Only other thing I can think of is that he was removed from Episode 4 to focus on the Loum arc instead
Apparently, it was because of a much more embarrassing reason. As Sakuga Blog reports:
As a friend of mine noted, his name had been suspiciously missing even from the promotional videos lately. Feeling curious about it we went on to ask an acquaintance who happens to be involved – I’d rather not reveal their name / online persona just in case, but chances are that you can guess who it was if you pay lots of attention to these production matters. The answer we got was rather unexpected; after wondering if the rumors had popped up already, our industry pal explained that Imanishi had appeared terribly drunk on a prescreen event that was attended by Bandai executives and the press, which definitely wasn’t the brightest idea of his career. And hopefully not the last idea of his career since he won’t be coming back to Sunrise D.I.D. as a CG director in general either. Chances are that he’ll be blacklisted for life on anything Bandai have decisive power over.
(emphasis mine)

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:14 am

That blog is bunk. "oh a friend of a friend who has a cousin whose neighbors wife dogsits knows so and so but I can't name them...". Please. They're stirring the pot with speculation.

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:27 am

There's something that doesn't quite add up in episode four. I was re-watching the episode and paused when it came to the Granada mayor dying in an accident. In the article it says that he was 52 years old and was born in Granada. Since we don't have any sort of completion date for Granada, we do have one for Von Braun which was U.C.0027. Considering the time frame of this particular accident (0078), that means that construction of Granada must have been underway prior to U.C.0026 (since that's when the mayor would have been born). Why that would have taken longer to accomplish I'm not sure...

Unless, of course, we can have partially completed cities and what not, but that would just seem rather harder to have compared to space colonies I'd say...

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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Zeonista » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:43 pm

Deacon Blues wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:27 am

Unless, of course, we can have partially completed cities and what not, but that would just seem rather harder to have compared to space colonies I'd say...
Well, the beginning of the Universal Century was not the beginning of the movement into space. It was the beginning of the great immigration to space. In UC 0001 the president of the Earth Federation gave a speech in a just-completed colony of some size. Lunar cities and the capture and farming of asteroids should have been in place even before the Side colonies began construction, right?
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Re: The Official Gundam The Origin Anime Thread Mk I

Post by Deacon Blues » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:55 pm

It took almost thirty years to complete Von Braun if that were the case so I'm hesitant to say the lunar settlements started prior to the start of the UC era.

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