Survival or mass death

[Gradius Kahn]

Which type of ending do you guys prefer. One where most of the protagonists survive (like in Gundam Wing and Gundam X) or one where there are a slew of deaths on either side (like in Zeta Gundam and Victory Gundam).

Personally, whilst I find survival endings to be okay, the mass killing ones tend to be a lot more interesting, especially when you have to watch and see if one of your favorite characters bites the dust (though, I never liked that Emma Sheen was killed off).

[ShadowCell]

And I will be the first to say that this will not be a favorites thread, this will be simply a thread about different ways mecha anime shows tend to end their stories.

If this thread turns into a favorites thread, I'll lock it.

Carry on.

[Antares]

Humm I would say it depends on the general tone of the story. If it is dark you would expect a massive culling of the cast by the end, and if that does not happen you feel... confused? Cheated, even. Then again a series that goes all happy-go-lucky might suddenly throw a curveball and massacre some cast out of the blue. That can go two ways: either you feel the series managed to surprise you or that it went for the lowest common denominator of shock-value.

Usually I like to think that if it is a mecha show then the climactic final scenes expect dramatic deaths on both sides. I definitely don't want to see the good guys overwhelming the baddies straight away (disclaimer: GSD ending is the exception when it comes to Athrun taking down Luna and Shinn; I can watch it again and again and again ). A few well-placed deaths can do more for a show in that regard than a slew of corpses can.

Finally there is the question of how life goes on beyond the ending of the show. I for one usually spare a few thoughts to that. The ending-type plays a considerable role there, at least to keep interest up in the storyline in general (since quite a few shows tend to franchise out). Does the ending aim for closure or give you something to work with? Evangelion is a good example of an ending being (unless you read up on it elsewhere) as inconclusive as it gets. Was it a survival -ending? Or did billions of people turn into goo, making it a mass death -ending? Or both? The viewer has a part to play in the overall experience of the show's ending, if for nothing else than to give it thumbs up or a thumbs down.

[Izayuukan]

An ending where everyone dies is too depressing. But an ending where everyone lives is a cop-out. One of the main themes in Gundam, and it appears in most instalments of the franchise, is that war is horrible. How are we supposed to know it is horrible if all the good guys (and gals) live? More fundamentally, such an ending breaks the suspension of disbelief. Gundam by and large isn't for little kids, and I like to think it has a mature and realistic (within the context of the story) take on warfare. Oh, the younger characters often act like brats, and 18 metre tall robots aren't realistic. But it will often strive to show war as something that can take lives and cause harm. Having a happy ending with no tragedy (to the core cast at least) is inherently wrong, because we know war isn't like that.

So, while I don't like mass death, I do prefer it to everyone surviving, so long as it isn't played for crappy drama. Which it always is. Therefore, I've yet to see a Gundam ending I actually liked, though to be fair I haven't seen every part of the animated portion of the franchise.

[Mu La Flaga]

Depends on the series, some of them for instance like SEED, big chaotic battle going on and all that and fairly large death count by the last episode.
Yet on the flip side, SEED Destiny had only 2-3 deaths really (Rey, Tallia, Durrandal)

So sometimes I think it depends on the tone of the series and the writters.
Also some characters kind of do and don't deserve to die for obvious reasons.
Eg Rau Le Creuset, since he was genocidal by series end.

And then on other hand, it's like asking did Flay deserve to die?, I would say no, sure she did some bad stuff in the past, but doesn't mean she has to get knocked off.

Same or simillar questions can be asked for other characters who die or have near death experiences(and sometimes avoid it due to writters, like Mu La Flagga)

[Red Comet90]

It really depends on the show. If the show is meant to portray things realistically then I think characters should be dieing at the end. Its the big finale and its only natural for characters to die on both sides.

Spoiler

Like at the end of SEED when Mwu "died." The first time I watched that I wished it had never happened or Lockon in Gundam 00 Season 1. Those two deaths really set the tone for the ending of the show.

Deaths like those I mentioned are what can really make a show. I felt that in Victory Gundam the deaths didn't cheapen the show, but it was almost necessary. The whole show rode on the depressing factor of war and death.

[mcred23]

I agree somewhat with what Antares said, the tone of the story plays a big role in how it works. With a darker series, Zeta being the classic example, you expect that people are going to get killed. The series has been setting up that nearly anyone can be killed at anytime (Except, of course, the main character ). However, with a series that isn't as dark (But not necessarily light hearted either), such as SEED, the number of deaths at the end doesn't really work as well, IMO. If it gets down to the end, and suddenly people are getting offed right and left, it does add a bit of shock value, but to me, that usually wares off quickly and it feels more like an easy way to get rid of various characters for whatever reasons.

Plus, which characters are being killed has some impact on it for me. If you start killing major/important/popular/likeable characters, it's going to have more of an impact than people like Ramsus Hasa or the Astray Girls, all of whom die rather quickly, but are such minor characters that it's almost a reminder that they were even in the series at all. Their deaths almost feel like they are shown just to inflate the body count of the last episodes of the series in which they are in. Killing characters, major or not, who have been around since the early part of the series, or hard a major role in the series, or some combination of all of that, should have some impact, as opposed to people who are, for all intents and purposes, named background characters/grunts. The other problem is that, for me, there is a very fine line between whether a death serves some real purpose (To show war is bad, to show someone was acting brash, to stop an evil madman, etc, etc) or is done just to deal with some half forgotten characters or provide some extra motivation for the main character to go whip the baddie.

On the other side, survival endings are a little less problematic. If it works with tone of the series that the majority of the good guys come out alive... well, alrighty then.

So, like I said, it really comes down to the tone of the series. If the series is heading toward a killing spree or (Insert some semi-silly way to refer to a survival ending I couldn't think up ), they should keep on that path, as trying to randomly and suddenly shift to the other tends to hurt the series for me. And because of that, I don't really prefer one manner of ending over the other.

[reeoyuy]

Like everyone else, I prefer balanced ending that fit the show overall tone. I have something that I dislike about "all good guys survived" ending like GSD, though. That is, too many character surviving will leave very little room for new characters for sequels (should they ever made). This in turn made writing the plot for sequels much harder. You can't just write SEED sequel with whole new casts and excluding the old yet popular characters (Kira's father and Ssigh are definitely not the case here ). This is what made my fanfic stuck...who knows, maybe Sunrise suffers the same too?
Unless, you write that Kira and gang going to Jupiter for a loooong time or the setting takes place in 30 years after
So yeah, that's the drawback of all survived ending IMO.

[Genocide]

In my opinion there's really only one problem with an "all good guys survive" scenario. When it becomes apparent that the directors are making an effort to keep the protagonist(s) alive, it becomes a very dry and unexciting experience. Wing and Destiny are two prime examples, where the term "death" seems to have no meaning as long as you're popular among the masses.

To an extent, 00, G Gundam and X all fall under this category as well. However, X is obviously excusable due to being cut short, and to its credit G Gundam had very emotional death scenes prior to the finale and the show had a more campy tone to begin with. Likewise, 00 had a few touching moments of characters passing away as well - although in my opinion Lock On's death was completely cheapened by having his identical twin brother take over his role.

On that note, I don't usually like perfectly happy endings like the one 00 ended off with because the ultimate conflict itself doesn't appear to have any serious ramifications. However, the final battle itself proved to be quite enjoyable and there were elements thrown in that actually made you question whether or not a certain character would make it out alive (Tieria comes to mind). A part of me hopes that the upcoming movie will be a bit more daring.

[Toxicity]

Either type of ending is perfectly acceptable in my eyes, just so long as it is well done. I do not like it however when an ending leaves me thinking "what the heck did i just watch?" The Eureka SeveN movie is the most prominent example of this I can think of off the top of my head, although the answers are there if you know where to look.

[Zeonista]

There is something to be said for both keeping the death count down, and by ruthlessly culling it to the end. I too will support either little death/bloodbath endings whenever the story seems to call for either one as being suitable. Concerning Gundam in particular over other mecha stories, I tend to prefer bloody ends. Gundam in particular originated with "war is hell" as a story theme. Gundam stories readily state that a lot of people are going to die on either hand, whether the cause be right or wrong. For dramatic purposes, yeah, it's better if the deaths seem to be worth the sacrifice, but I can except some needless sacrifices along the way. People don't make good choices in or out of battle in real life, why should we expect more from Gundam characters? Especially when the Gundam characters in question may have made some rather dubious choices to begin with, or have clearly backed the wrong side and now have to pay the piper. (No time outs allowed when the Gundam her or Gundam villian is headed one's way with "THIS ENDS NOW" determination!)

As a fan, I also trefer the bloodbasth ending, because for the most part it is part of why anime is better than Western animation. All you out there who grew up watching Saturday AM or after-school cartoons know what I mean, right? Thanks to the Mouse House and broadcast network fear of irate busybodies, all the serious drama evaporated out of animation on this side of the ocean a long time ago. The high body counts in Gundam anime keep things exciting by keeping the consequences of armed combat real. Win, lose, or draw until the sequel, Gundam says "no guarantees", which is the way all good actin dramas ought to be.

[ShadowCell]

Of course, the downside of slaughtering characters left and right is that you emotionally cheapen the deaths of all those characters--a lesson I've learned the hard way.

That may be how war works, but Gundam is a giant robot cartoon, not war.

[iKhaotic]

like many have said already, it really depends on the mood of the series. but sometimes series will throw a curveball and kill off a character(s) very unexpectedly, a recent anime that i've watched that comes to mind is

Spoiler

Gurrenn Lagann when they killed off Kamina. of course, they tried to foreshadow it by showing that scene with Yoko prior to the battle. and in my experiences with anime, when a character makes a promise, they tend to die -_-

i knew Mu was going to die by his second or third skirmish into SEED. throughout the whole series, i was just expecting his death with every battle he goes into (not in a bad way). there were four battles in particular where i thought he was going to die:

1. battle near Earth's Atmosphere with ZAFT vs the 8th Fleet. characters tend to die during atmospheric re-entry...
2. final battle against Andrew Waltfeld's forces since Cagalli was piloting a Skygrasper also, i thought she would replace him.
3. battle of Josh-A. i was completely surprised that no one important died there. the Cyclops system had "deathbed" written all over it lol.
4. inside Mendel colony, 'nuff said -_-

[Gradius Kahn]

Of course, the downside of slaughtering characters left and right is that you emotionally cheapen the deaths of all those characters.

You mean, like the Shrike Team. I really did not see the point in introducing them when practically the enitre team died out before the halfway point in the series.

Also, I don't think it's right that the Shrike Team, which could have been an interesting group, to be killed off, yet every member of the Maganac Corps survives both Gundam Wing and Endless Waltz.

[Kratos]

While death is, for obvious reason, a major part of any series that focuses on war, those deaths should ideally have meaning behind them. Slaughtering characters that the audience barely knows won't have the same effect as killing even one character that the audience knows well and/or cares for.

Spoiler

Bernie's death at the end of 0080 is a fantastic example of a death done right. We got to know the character, a friendship was developed between him and Al, and his character was given real meaning before he died. It wasn't a gratuitous death, and it carried little to no weight as far as the rest of Gundam canon goes. But it is significant in its portrayal, and it's certainly an example the rest of Gundam could learn from.

Like Shadowcell said, mass death is a part of war, but Gundam isn't war. It's entertainment. And I consider putting gravitas behind a death as a far more effective way of showing the audience that war is hell than showing death on a mass scale.

You mean, like the Shrike Team. I really did not see the point in introducing them when practically the enitre team died out before the halfway point in the series.

The Shrike Team is actually a perfect example of a death done wrong. Their deaths carried little to no weight because we, the viewers, didn't know them, didn't identify with them. That may be how things are in war, but in entertainment, it makes the deaths shrug-worthy.

[Akuma_Blade]

Pyrus war-like finals or killem'all finals best fit for me : Gundam 00 S1 final more than better S2's final.

I think tragedy elements overweighted in V but anyway good enough considered to G, Turn A, X or SEED DESTINY

[Kratos]

I think tragedy elements overweighted in V but anyway good enough considered to G, Turn A, X or SEED DESTINY

Now, you can hardly blame G for its low death count, it's not a war-themed series.

[vindKtiv]

I'm more of a "realistic" (loosely speaking) ending. It shouldn't be an everything-dies-nobody-lives-nothing-really-happens ending, but it shouldn't be like all-good-guys-survive-happily-ever-after ending. In a real war, people die (not saying that is a good thing). If I'm watching a real-mecha show, then I want some realism. In a real war, ten nukes do not often come out and kill everything and everyone in the battle. If I'm watching a real-mecha show, then I want some realism.

[Tangerine]

I think mass death on "final battle" to close the show is also lame. No matter how great the war was, the cast usually already survived anything being thrown at them for numbers of episodes, it's very odd for most of them not to surive the final battle. I'm confused how character like Katz survived from all his actions but died in the final episode merely from crashing into a giant rock which he failed to see. It's like the cast lost their lucky charm at the final episode.

[Genocide]

I'm confused how character like Katz survived from all his actions but died in the final episode merely from crashing into a giant rock which he failed to see. It's like the cast lost their lucky charm at the final episode.

That tends to be how Tomino operates, even in the so-called "lighthearted" ZZ. Katz died because he had the unfortunate urge to piss of Yazan, who intuitively used his Yazan powers to place that asteroid in front of him.