4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:57 pm

Attomoku wrote:Normally I'm not one to comment on others fights but in the Neo Germany/Greece fight I must say I'm a little confused. thatguyent, wouldn't back-peddling put you on top of the exploding bazooka if it was behind you?
And if those bits project an I-Field, I-Field barriers don't do squat against physical projectiles or explosives...
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:28 am

Attomoku wrote:uh, won't that put you/us past the end of the month? Or will there be an extension for this round?
Nope. We started this round a few days late to begin with, on October 5th, so if we had kept to one month per round, it would have started on November 5th. And like Fritz said, to help account for some upcoming slow periods (Namely holidays like Thanksgiving) and some other stuff (Round starting dates and the slight delay we had with this round), we're extending this round about two weeks (Give or take a few days). The round or two after that may also end up going a bit longer as well, but we'll give more details on all of that when we have some dates set, which I'll probably do after my trip.
Fritz Ashlyn wrote:
Attomoku wrote:Normally I'm not one to comment on others fights but in the Neo Germany/Greece fight I must say I'm a little confused. thatguyent, wouldn't back-peddling put you on top of the exploding bazooka if it was behind you?
And if those bits project an I-Field, I-Field barriers don't do squat against physical projectiles or explosives...
And, of course, I-Fields are an effect of Minovsky Particles... which don't exsist in the FC Universe, so the equivalent technology would be an Anti-Beam Shield or whatever. 8)

Still, doesn't help thatguyent's situation, as he backed into a big conventional boom, and and thus should have taken more damage than Fritzy did (Who was both further away from and partially shielded from the blast by Polynikes). :|
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:22 am

Nowhere did I state that I back in to the explosion.

I said that I moved away from Neo Germany, and braced myself with my bits. I-fields exist in all Gundam universes however because they're used to generate beam saber containment fields. Its just that in UC they've become more advanced and are also used for 360 degree fields of defense. Granted, a bullet will still puncture an I-Field, but heat/flames will not. Which is all I would have to worry about, because the shrapnel from the explosion wouldn't be able to get past the Bits themselves, and the Hoplite's shield.

If you don't agree, case in point. 0083, when the Dendrobrium Orchis first used its I-Field, it flickered visibly while flying through smoking rubble of enemy units destroyed by the Orchis, but the flames did not puncture the field, nor did the smoke. Only solid matter or a high enough frequency beam is capable of doing so.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:22 am

I'll let Fritz handle the issue of you backing closer or not to the explosion and the damage that would result, as there are some problems with what you did...
thatguyent wrote:I-fields exist in all Gundam universes however because they're used to generate beam saber containment fields.
No they do not. I-Fields being used for that purpose is solely in UC. Other universes use other means of forming beams, which is explained in some cases (Like in the CE universe) and not in others (Like the FC setting here, where the details on how beam weapons, like most other technologies, isn't explained).
thatguyent wrote:If you don't agree, case in point. 0083, when the Dendrobrium Orchis first used its I-Field, it flickered visibly while flying through smoking rubble of enemy units destroyed by the Orchis, but the flames did not puncture the field, nor did the smoke. Only solid matter or a high enough frequency beam is capable of doing so.
What scene are you talking about? I just watched episode 12, the only one where the GP03 uses it's I-Field, and saw no such actions. As far as I know, and backed up by Gundam Official and every thread I can find on this forum related to the subject, I-Fields only affect Minovsky Particle based weapons and nothing else (Meaning conventional weapons, fire, and possibly other types of beams should just go right through it, but we never see non-Minovsky beams fired at an I-Field in a show, so who knows how that last bit may work out).

But that is all really a moot point, as I-Field's don't exsist in the FC universe. What the Hoplite Gundam has is a generic shield (The profile refers to it as a defensive field), so it should be called that, or really anything other than an I-Field, which is a term that obviously carries very distinctive connotations about what the bits can and can not do, and thus isn't correct at all for the Hoplite (Or anything else in this RPG, since Y.T. Minovsky and everything that came from him don't exsist here! :mrgreen:).
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Attomoku » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:56 pm

thatguyent wrote:Nowhere did I state that I back in to the explosion.

I said that I moved away from Neo Germany, and braced myself with my bits.
See, this is where I get confused. So I think you might have missed something or be misunderstanding:
In Fritz's second post he wrote: ...seemed to rummage for something on his skirt armor. Seemingly satisfied, he messed with the barrel of the bazooka for a moment before using his free hand to draw the flammenschwert from his Gundam's back.

Clutching the end of the barrel with part of the hand holding the sword and the handle of the bazooka with his other, he reared back and then tossed the Gundamschreck underhand in his enemy's direction where it landed at his feet and skidded to a stop behind him.
He put a grenade in the barrel of the bazooka and tosses it behind you a few posts back. Then he counts to five and it explodes: Behind you.

Fritz didn't put the grenade in the bazooka in front of the both of you and drop it at your feet in his last post (Though he did just drop a grenade or grenade like object in front of you so I can see how you might have gotten confused).
So when you back-peddle 'away from Germany' it will put you on top of the explody thing behind you (which is what he actually set off in his post).

Your inexplicable readiness for this attack while being at ground zero of the blast is what was causing confusion for me and others, I-field issues aside.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:10 pm

Attomoku wrote:(Though he did just drop a grenade or grenade like object in front of you so I can see how you might have gotten confused).
That was just the ball from the grenade's pull-string. German potato-masher style stick grenades unscrew at the bottom and have a ceramic (in this case metal since they're giant) ball at the end of the string that starts the fuse when it's pulled out of the handle.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Attomoku » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:52 pm

Ok, I see that in hindsight but you may want to elaborate in the future; '"a metal ball" that falls at your feet' is not the usual descriptive, detailed, and florid prose I've come to expect from you Mr. Ashlyn. 8)


(good lord, im sounding like my old english teacher)
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:33 pm

in my last match I wrote:"Gut! Sehr gut!" he sneered a compliment while holding up his right hand - he was still gripping the trench knife, but there was also a strange new bit of equipment snugly held between his thumb and forefinger.

He dangled the torn-away ball on its string like he was jiggling keys in Simo's face to taunt him... The potato masher grenade it had come from during his roll thumped at the Winter Final Gundam's feet, it's fuse already burning.
There's precedent. :crossarms:
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:05 pm

Well, I fixed my post so that yes, Polynikes got rattled good by the explosion. However, I would like to note Fritz that you and Red basically forced me to give you a hit on that attack, which is hit calling. Because you both seemed to refuse the idea that I could have avoided some sort of damage. I'm not trying to start anything here, but I thought there was no hit calling unless an opponent took more then 48 hours to respond?

I don't mind taking the lump, if its unavoidable. However, the way I look at that attack was a cheap tactic, that anyone with half a brain would see coming. "Oh, so the other guy threw his bazooka behind me, now he's dropping a grenade."

"Hm, I think I'll back away from the explosion."

I never said that I backpedaled directly in to your blast, all backpedaling means is that I'm moving backwards. So I'm sorry if my understanding of an I-Field is off, but I could have sworn that the Orchis flew through an exploding ship or MS with out the flames coming through its I-Field. Ah well, anyway... As I said, post fixed.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:06 pm

thatguyent wrote:However, I would like to note Fritz that you and Red basically forced me to give you a hit on that attack, which is hit calling. Because you both seemed to refuse the idea that I could have avoided some sort of damage. I'm not trying to start anything here, but I thought there was no hit calling unless an opponent took more then 48 hours to respond?
You could have avoided the attack, but not in the post you tried to do it in. Your actions in the post prior to the grenade and bazooka exploding forced your into having to take damage, it was in that post you should have taken some action by realizing that Dieter was doing something shifty. But, because you didn't do anything about the bazooka just behind your feet even though Fritz gave you a chance, you were going to have to take damage from it (Something Fritz knew, which is why he worded his post the way he did). So, it isn't hit calling at all, but rather very good writing by Fritz that forced you into a situation where you would have to take hits (If you want to see hit calling, look at my fights where I had to break out the 48 hour rule).
thatguyent wrote:I don't mind taking the lump, if its unavoidable. However, the way I look at that attack was a cheap tactic, that anyone with half a brain would see coming. "Oh, so the other guy threw his bazooka behind me, now he's dropping a grenade."

"Hm, I think I'll back away from the explosion."

I never said that I backpedaled directly in to your blast, all backpedaling means is that I'm moving backwards.
I think you have things messed up there. Fritz didn't throw the bazooka and drop a grenade seperately, he put the grenade inside the bazooka, so you backpedaling closer to the bazooka would put you closer to the grenade when it (And the bazooka with all its ammo, making things even worse for you) goes off, thus you would take even more damage.

It's not so much that it is a cheap tatic (That's debatable at best, I'd call it more unconventional), it's just that you didn't expect the unconventional attack. However, Dieter has already established he is willing to damage himself to do more damage to his enemy, and that the grenades are carried in the skirt armor. I saw what was coming from a mile away, and had I been fighting him, I would have done something, but you obviously didn't, which is why you ended up in a position where you're going to pay for that. That, again, is why Fritz worded his post in such a way to establish that the explosion was large enough to cause damage to himself, and since you were far closer to it, would have had to as well.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:45 pm

I distinctly remember his post after my response to the tossed Bazooka being about him dropping a grenade. So what was the point of that grenade if he already had one cooking in the barrel (which I admit I somehow missed)?
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:03 am

No, what Fritz dropped was a metal ball, which is the pin of the grenade, as you can see in this picture of what the grenade looks like. If he had dropped a grenade, he would have called it a grenade and not a metal ball (Which obviously looks nothing like the grenades he is using). He didn't use two grenades, only one stuck down the barrel of the bazooka, and that one was right behind you (Along with the rockets inside the bazooka), which is why we are saying you should have taken quite a bit of damage (More than you have in the current post, really), since the blast was big enough to cause some decent damage to Dieter, and he was much further away from the blast than you were (And you partially shielded him from it, as you were between him and the explosion).
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:34 am

A broken ankle isn't enough damage? That and pain through out my entire body? Okay what am I supposed to do, instantly lose after one attack? Again, I state: defensive fields. I know you guys are part of the Trinary and all but it seems to me like you're both arguing for the sake of Dieter winning just because. I took the job of playing Polynikes for Phantom Bread because I liked the concept of his Gundam, and the pilot, and personally I think getting blasted in to the air, landing with a thud, getting all shaken up, a broken or sprained ankle for the pilot, and thus a useless right foot, is more then enough damage off of an explosion. So okay if the item was a metal ball, and that wasn't the explosive. However when you're fighting someone, you should explain things like that. I understand it was supposed to be a surprise tactic, but how am I supposed to know how to flipping respond if you're only telling half of the action?
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by The Big Zabowski » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:13 pm

"One Ping Only.."

Christ I need to watch that movie again. 8)
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:12 pm

thatguyent wrote:A broken ankle isn't enough damage? That and pain through out my entire body? Okay what am I supposed to do, instantly lose after one attack? Again, I state: defensive fields.
Honestly, I don't think a broken ankle is enough. I'd expect weapons or armor to be damaged to one extent or another, maybe a bit or two lost from the explosion, plus all the usual cosmetic and minor damage you do have. I don't see how Polynikes can back pedal (Taking him closer to the explosion, mind you), get all the bits behind him, anchor the Gundam to the ground, and expect it all to work in the blink of an eye that the grenade and rockets go off and reach him. Maybe get some of the bits behind him to stop some of the blast, but other than that, I don't see how he isn't taking nearly the full force of the blast.

And no, we don't expect you to instantly lose after one attack (Although you can choose to do such a thing), but you got yourself into a situation where you are going to take massive damage, and that probably will affect the course of the fight, but the only person you can blame for that is you.
thatguyent wrote:So okay if the item was a metal ball, and that wasn't the explosive. However when you're fighting someone, you should explain things like that. I understand it was supposed to be a surprise tactic, but how am I supposed to know how to flipping respond if you're only telling half of the action?
By knowing you enemy and being ready for anything. It's not Fritz' fault you mistook the metal ball for a grenade, it's yours for not knowing what his grenades look like (Which is in the profile, and established in the previous fight, as was their being stored in the hip). Fritz explained everything perfectly fine. He gave away enough information to make it fairly obvious he was doing something unusual and probably shady, but you didn't question it. If he had made it any more obvious by saying he was putting a grenade in the bazooka, the trick wouldn't have worked as you certainly would have done something to avoid it. Again, you have no one to blame for this but yourself...
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:42 am

There if you aren't happy with my most recent modifications, I don't know what to tell you. Internal bleeding, a shredded arm making his Shield Arm useless for doing anything more then hefting the damn Shield, and a broken ankle. If that's not enough then you might as well make me concede defeat, since the only thing Fritz has wrong is some systems having been knocked out of whack. I still say that you're basically forcing me to take a hit since I already explained that backpedaling doesn't necessarily mean going straight backward, it could be any form of moving in a reverse direction. I could very well have moved to the opposite side of the field.

Plus as you so aptly said, the Bits aren't using I-Fields, so their fields could have very well stopped all forms of the attack from hitting the Hoplite, in the way I made a forcefield around the unit in 360 degrees, above, and below. However, since you said I had to get hurt worse then just my ankle, I took out three of the bits too.

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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Fritz Ashlyn » Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 am

thatguyent wrote:If that's not enough then you might as well make me concede defeat, since the only thing Fritz has wrong is some systems having been knocked out of whack.
Incorrect. That's all that's apparently wrong at the moment while Dieter is on the ground. Just wait until he gets up.
thatguyent wrote:Hope you're happy now, oh Trinary.
And you're really not helping yourself with this attitude. In a game like this everything comes from the creative writing of the people involved - logically critical reading skills are required to properly react to the actions of others.

In addition, if I had spelled out what Dieter was doing any more clearly at the beginning of the match, you can't honestly tell me that you wouldn't have reacted to the rigged bazooka. Nobody here can and I don't fault them for it. In one-on-one games like this a bit of good faith subterfuge can be expected, particularly from a player controlling a villain.

I've tried to be civil in this matter. As a matter of fact I didn't speak up until an uninvolved non-Trinary member did, and after that I let Red do most of the arguing on my behalf. I did this to avoid giving anyone here the impression of impropriety on my behalf, well-founded and accurate or not. In this case not.

None of us are out to get you. I have better things to do than abuse my power as a moderator on a message board about giant robot cartoons to cheat in an RPG about those very same cartoon robots. If you feel that your actions in reacting to the blast were appropriate, you are in the minority. I am more than willing to lose matches to people, because that's what villains and henchmen do in these stories. But I'm not going to roll over at the first sign of resistance.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by thatguyent » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:13 pm

Well I'm sorry If I've been short but really it did seem as though you two were forcing me to "lose after one blow" or something to that effect. So okay, I didn't take any damage really initially from the attack, other then effectively having been blinded and having to back out of effective combat range. That was deemed unrealistic, so I took a better look at the attack post, re-reading it three times, and decided that getting tossed around a bit like a rag doll should do the trick. Considering the Hoplite is one of of the most durable MFs in this Gundam Fight, I thought that, in conjunction with the damaged ankle, would be enough. Since it wasn't I once again changed the post, so no I am at a complete disadvantage, and I'm sorry if that doesn't seem like a force loss to you, but look at it from my side. I'm not even Playing my own character, I'm trying to give Phantom Bread a win while I watch Polynikes for him, and suddenly I'm being told I have to take damage.

Again, sorry if I took that wrong, and I assumed to much regarding Dieter's status. However I would like to point something out: not once did I insult anyone's intelligence. So claiming that I didn't read your post critically. You can read any post I have on the Coloholics Gundam See: Shadows of War game that I moderate for, or during my fight with Wedge's Stedmore character, I do read through my opponent's responses. I don't think trying to insult my logic or critical reading skills was necessary at all. I just don't see how the rummaging around the skirt armor of your Gundam= putting a grenade in your bazooka barrel, which after having been tossed clear across the arena would have probably come loose anyway, as you said, based upon logic.

I'm done fighting though, I just want to wait for you to post again so that we can continue the fight and get it over with.

That, and does anyone have any eta on when Wedge will be returning? I would really like to get to post more then once per week, I'd rather not win by default with the Neo Lux/Neo Spain match.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by mcred23 » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:03 pm

Just making sure everyone sees this.

And because I know there are a bunch of people now waiting on us, we'll be getting those delayed fights going as soon as we can next week. It's going to be a joint effort by me and Fritz, and we have a number of things related to those characters and the story we have to get rolling along, so keep being patient.
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Re: 4th Gundam Fight: Final Gambit: Discussion thread.

Post by Inferno » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:45 pm

I think my posts are showing my Super Robot obsession...

I was originally considering giving the Legion Gundam a variation of the Getter Beam and Giga Drill Breaker...

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