The GuAIZ R

[DeltasTaii]

I'll repeat, contrary to popular belief, the GuAIZ was not designed around G-Weapon tech.

It was announced in the same 3rd wave of new models as LaGOWE and ZnO, the former of which debuted but a couple weeks after the Gundams were stolen. Actually, it's ZAFT's Gundams that are based on the GuAIZ, starting with the Dreadnought.

The reality is, GuAIZ was in development before Heliopolis, they just perfected the beam weapons after Gundam-jack.

Quoting ol' toysdream's rollout dates:

"C.E. 71.01.20: Rollout of the GAT-X102 Duel, GAT-X103 Buster, GAT-X105 Strike, GAT-X207 Blitz, and GAT-X303 Aegis at Heliopolis.
Source: Cosmic Era timeline.

C.E. 71.01.23: With the fall of the Kaohsiung spaceport, ZAFT announces the ZGMF-600 GuAIZ, TMF/A-803 LAGOWE, and UMF-5 ZnO.
Note that these are announcements rather than actual rollouts.

C.E. 71.03.01: Rollout of the YMF-X000A Dreadnought.
Source: Unknown. (SEED Club?)

C.E. 71.04.01: Rollout of the ZGMF-X09A Justice and ZGMF-X10A Freedom.
Source: Master Grade Freedom Gundam kit manual."

Prototype ZAKU hits sometime in late CE71 or early CE72, I can't remember just which.

[Ravager]

With the fall of the Kaohsiung spaceport, ZAFT announces the ZGMF-600 GuAIZ, TMF/A-803 LAGOWE, and UMF-5 ZnO.

You sure about all this about the GuAIZ?I'm positive i read somewhere that the GuAIZ was based on G-Project tech.And the timeline from Gundam Official got the Kaohsiung stuff but the none of the latter half of the quote.

[Derringer]

Wait a second, they had to have gotten the minaturized beam technology from the G Weapons.

[Draco Starcloud]

The GuAIZ could have been announced and slated to roll out without beam rifles and claws. ZAFT did have those big particle cannons the GiNNs used, which could have been the GuAIZ's standard gun along with heavy GiNN swords for melee weapons.

[Melchior]

DeltasTaii's dates are indeed correct. I would also presume that the beam technology was added to the GuAIZ design at a later date.

[Ravager]

Well then,i'll accede to that information.Though that's a very minor part of my previous post,so it doesn't matter.

[Red XIV]

The Dreadnought rolling out on March 1 presumably means the GuAIZ rolled out in February, given that the Dreadnought is built on a modified GuAIZ frame.

[DeltasTaii]

Something like that. They were in use by the time Dreadnought was being tested, although we don't see them in SEED until the last weeks of the war when they've plowed out a few hundred of them. That has a lot to do with the last 6 or 7 episodes taking 4 months, and representing the small fraction of fighting that took place back in space though.

ZAFT also seemed to tend to leave its established teams with GINNs, considering the Le Creuset Team at Mendel, and the Coast Team's attempt to take back Dreadnought, keeping most GuAIZ close to home to counter the inevitable counterattack.


And importantly, note that the LaGOWE and BuCUE use miniaturized beam weapon technology too, and both the LaGOWE and the BuCUE's mouth beam saber debut shortly after ZAFT gets the Gundams. ZAFT was already using and further planning on using beam weapons on MS, they just needed that last push of EA info to get them a more usable size.

[StrikeEnd]

Judging from all the debate and whatnot, I see the GuAIZ-R as a downgraded suit, therefore less combat capable than the original. For one thing, ZAFT, under Durandal's leadership, took under a sympathetic light. Making its primary mobile suit (up until the Armory One Incident) look weaker to appease the Earth Forces (with their equally weak-looking Dagger L) would help make Durandal look like he was the good guy compared to the Alliance. Plus, and this is just speculation, I'm sure the Junius Treaty had something to do with the downgrade. (didn't explain that too well) Secondly, the less thrusters, the slower the suit; in other words, a better target. No matter what difficulty (if any) the thrusters would need to control, it would be better to have recruits learn to operate them, as opposed to have a suit that's easier to shoot at. Next, the railguns would make the suit heavier, right? While increasing the firepower quite a bit, it makes the GuAIZ-R much more like a ground-pounder, unlike the high performance unit its bigger brother was. Plus, I didn't see any of the anchor-thingies being controlled. They seemed to be just fired and retracted. Also, wouldn't having a close-combat beam weapon (i.e. a saber or claw) on the end of a larger shield make it more difficult to wield in a fight? On the original, the shield was short, which, despite making it harder to block attacks, made it easier to use the claws. And, as has been said, having two short claws over a single long blade would be the right choice; reasons: faster, better hit potential, more damage, and downright meaner looking. Now, as for the rollout date, even if ZAFT released the original GuAIZ the same time as the LaGOWE and ZnO, obviously they delayed the rollout to outfit it with the G-Weapons tech.

Phew. Of course, these are all just make takes on each issue. I'll stoke the debate even more with these points of mine. Not that it'll be much more of a debate, with all this.

[razgriz]

the guaiz looked like it didnt have too much time left with the advent of the zaku, gouf, and dom units in any case.

[Ravager]

the guaiz looked like it didnt have too much time left with the advent of the zaku, gouf, and dom units in any case.

Not so. The Zaku looks worse than the GuAIZ and it's only advantage was the Wizard Pack hardpoint. The Gouf was limited mass-production for commanders and aces to use only while there were so few Doms and they weren't even ZAFT units.

[razgriz]

yes i suppose thats true, that is until they come out with the new front line ms Generation ELite Ground/Orbit Operations Guardian (GELGOOG) hehe

nah but still the guaiz r was still a formidible if not sinister looking powered grunt. maybe the guaiz r was a more energy efficient model over its predecessor.

[Ravager]

yes i suppose thats true, that is until they come out with the new front line ms Generation ELite Ground/Orbit Operations Guardian (GELGOOG) hehe

nah but still the guaiz r was still a formidible if not sinister looking powered grunt. maybe the guaiz r was a more energy efficient model over its predecessor.

You know i always found it kinda hard to believe that the Gelgoog would end up being the evolution of a Gundam.I thought ZAFT would get the license on that design.

The GuAIZ R never looked formidable,but the GuAIZ was the total opposite.The GuAIZ R could be more energy efficient,i mean,look at ZAFT's Phase Shift tech,it used up so little juice,so those railguns could use up less power than their counterparts in CE71.

[neolordmaxwell]

I think we might be missing the point to the role of the Guaiz and the guaiz R- namely, who was using them. The guaiz, being rolled out at the same time as the LaGow and the Zno, very lickely was intended with the same role in mind. A high quality limited production machine for commander use.

We only see Guaiz assigned to seasoned veterans, such as Rau Le Cruize. At Jachin Due, we see squads of Ginns commanded by a handfull of Guaiz units. Like the High Mobility Gelgoog, it's a machine intended for Zaft's vets.

The Guaiz Refined, on the other hand, is a streamlined, cheaper version mass produced in numbers more in line with the now out-moded Ginn. The Guaiz R becomes the standard unit replacing the Ginn as the Zaku Warrior becomes a command unit, seen feilded by ace pilots such as Lunamaria, Rey Za Burrel, and Hein Westinfloss.

As the second bloody valentine war begins, the Guaiz R is now an out-dated machine that is slowly replaced by mass production of the Zaku Warrior as the new Gouf Ignigted, initially piloted by commanders such as Hein and Yzack, begins to receive mass production.

The Guaiz R is a bit of a down-grade- to a cheaper, mass producable machine that can be used by the entire army, rather than an experienced commander. The expencive equipment makes way for easily used cheap stuff.

[Ravager]

We only see Guaiz assigned to seasoned veterans, such as Rau Le Cruize. At Jachin Due, we see squads of Ginns commanded by a handfull of Guaiz units. Like the High Mobility Gelgoog, it's a machine intended for Zaft's vets.

We did not see such a thing happening at Jachin Due. The GuAIZs were assigned to any kind of pilot and rushed to the front. GuAIZs are mass-produced high-performance grunt units. Nowhere was it said that the GuAIZ was any commander-type MS.

[Melchior]

Indeed. If a GuAIZ was meant to be used by a commander it was painted silver, just as Rau's was. The green ones are used by regular pilots, many of whom seemed to have seen absolutely no combat. Training time might be a factor here, its just easier to train the new recrutis on the GuAIZ rather than have to teach the vets about the GuAIZ while teaching the newbies about the GINN. Why else would aces like Mikhail and Shiho be using GINN and CGUE variants in the final battle.

[Ravager]

Why else would aces like Mikhail and Shiho be using GINN and CGUE variants in the final battle.

Those variants were not outdated even at Jachin Due. Besides, they're unique ace-use units. The GINN High Maneuver's engines allowed it to outmaneuver any kind of MS except ZAFT's ZGMF-X series and draw with such a high-performing unit as the Blue Frame 2nd L. The CGUE Deep Arms's high firepower is very useful against hordes of Strike Daggers, though it would be lacking in the maneuverability department when compared with the GuAIZ.

[Melchior]

I'd be apprehensive to say the Ginn High Manuener had more mobility than the GuAIZ. The GuAIZ has a number of thrusters but I doubt there's any way to tell. Nonetheless, the GuAIZ has the Ginn Hi-Man beat in firepower.

The CGUE Deep Arms's high firepower is very useful against hordes of Strike Daggers, though it would be lacking in the maneuverability department when compared with the GuAIZ.

I wouldn't agree with that. The DEEP Arms hardly has much more firepower than the GuAIZ, and because of all its overheating issues it wouldn't be very useful against hordes of Strike Dagers, as you say. I'd rather the GuAIZ in that situation.

[Ravager]

I'd be apprehensive to say the Ginn High Manuener had more mobility than the GuAIZ. The GuAIZ has a number of thrusters but I doubt there's any way to tell. Nonetheless, the GuAIZ has the Ginn Hi-Man beat in firepower.

The CGUE Deep Arms's high firepower is very useful against hordes of Strike Daggers, though it would be lacking in the maneuverability department when compared with the GuAIZ.

I wouldn't agree with that. The DEEP Arms hardly has much more firepower than the GuAIZ, and because of all its overheating issues it wouldn't be very useful against hordes of Strike Dagers, as you say. I'd rather the GuAIZ in that situation.

The GINN HM's extra thrusters are the same as the METEOR's. So that's very fast speed and mobility for an MS. I do think the GuAIZ has the GINN HM beat in firepower, but seeing as they were up against Strike and 105 Daggers at Jachin Due,that's hardly an issue.

I have no idea about the technicalities of the overheating issues, but MAHQ gives the total opposite saying that they suffer heat loss. Those cannons will still prove useful against clumps of enemy units.

Besides, what makes the MS deadly is the pilot within, and Mikhail and Shiho are some of ZAFT's best.

[CHASER]

The GINN HM's extra thrusters are the same as the METEOR's. So that's very fast speed and mobility for an MS.

Aye? I somewhat doubt that, if only for the size difference between them. The appearance of the thrusters doesn't necessarily mean they're similar at all.

As for the CGUE DEEP Arms, from what I've seen of it, its thermal cannons are around the strength of a beam rifle. Well, at least from the size of the shot, and the fact that they are thermal cannons means they generate a lot of heat, so it has a lot of cooling equipment.

I'm surprised no one mentioned the other GuAIZ variation, since it did give birth to the Freedom and Justice.