Shields

[Binker]

This recently came to me. Ignoring the Federaton and all that, do you really think handheld/connected sheilds are really needed? I mean if you think about it, you could do away with a shield as its just a big hunk of metal you are controlling to carry. That machine hand could be needed later in a battle but that would mean your shield would have to be put aside, thus increasing your risk of death.

Instead of a shield, that anti-beam coating would be perfect to cover the entire frame/armor of the mobile suit. And it doesn't matter of how much armor is used, armor is armor. Its not like a pilot is going to not do anything in the battlefield to check how much can he take.

Use your imagination: do you think shields are really needed when you could take a compromise alternative? There are movile suits that don't carry shields.

[Homeless]

I'd rather a shield or beam shield, considering how unreliable anti-beam coating tends to be.

[Phantomexe87]

Actually the shield is usually connected to the wrist, so that's not reall a problem, the only MS with that problem, is the GP02, I also love how its weakness is in the actual shield, some real geniuses over at Anaheim.... reverse psychology. I like what the Gouf has, a shield gattling gun. Beam shields, I never really liked myself, I just wouldn't trust them.

[Wingnut]

Actually the shield is usually connected to the wrist, so that's not reall a problem, the only MS with that problem, is the GP02, I also love how its weakness is in the actual shield, some real geniuses over at Anaheim.... reverse psychology. I like what the Gouf has, a shield gattling gun. Beam shields, I never really liked myself, I just wouldn't trust them.

Actually, they are probably the best defense you can get really. The only reason I wouldn't use one is if I was packing a serious weapon in my solid shield.

[Phantomexe87]

Yes but a conventional shield, you know it is there, so when you block an attack, you know it will work. But what if the beam shield doesn't turn on right on time? Or if it gives out for even a second? You're dead.

[wing zero alpha]

Yes but a conventional shield, you know it is there, so when you block an attack, you know it will work. But what if the beam shield doesn't turn on right on time? Or if it gives out for even a second? You're dead.

It's the same kind of risk with a solid shield; what if the enemy shoots a point that's actually weak? What if the shot gets through the visor port that's usually at the top of the shield? Besides, beam shields have been shown to be quite reliable, as they always turn on quickly and take the most damage.

[Oruma]

The supposed disadvantage to anti-beam coating(ABC) is that MSs will have overheating issues if the coating is applied.

Besides, it will be more cost-effective if you only carry a shield with anti-beam coating applied to the surface: rotate the shield to protect the MS, instead of having to cover the entire MS with ABC. The shield can also be abandoned should it be damaged beyond use; thus it can be treated as ablative armor of sorts.

Also, replacing ABC-shields would be much easier and accessible to all kind of MS, instead of ABC-ing every piece of armor on every MS.

As for freeing up the shield hand for using other weapons: there are many shield-mounted weaponry to increase combat effectiveness; for instance, a variety of range weapons (Gouf B-3), grenade launchers (Galbady B), ammo packs (MK-II), melee weapons (GuAIZ), and so on.

[mcred23]

There was a time when shields were extremely effective. Back during the One Year War and well into the UC 0080's, when many MS used shell firing weapons, shields were naturally useful. Over time of course, as beam weapons became more common and more powerful, their combat effectiveness began to decline (The same would later happen with beam shields).

Of course, no matter how you look at it, it's just an extra layer of armor between you and the guy trying to kill you. Even if it's totally useless, I think the thought that you have a little something extra would make the pilots feel at least a tiny bit better...

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Whether or not you want to equip a unit with a shield depends on what sort of role you expect that unit to carry out. Look at the GM -- it's a general purpose mobile suit with an emphasis on close to medium range combat. Speed and agility are both necessary to get into close range quickly and to fight in melee effectively; thus a lighter mobile suit with less armor would be a good idea. However, you still want the protection offered by heavy armor; so you compromise, by giving the GM light armor but a shield. The shield weighs less than all-around heavy armor would, but it's almost as useful -- keep the shield between you and whatever's shooting at you and you get all the benefits of heavy armor without the weight. Of course, there's always the risk that you won't get the shield up in time to block a shot, but that's the trade off of using a shield. In the GM's case, the shield is a double bonus -- shields are extremely useful in melee combat. There's a reason why the standard "knight in shining armor" concept almost always includes a sword and a shield -- because that combination of equipment has proven over thousands of years of human history.

Compare this to something like the Guncannon. The Guncannon is meant to fight as a mid to long range support unit -- it's not expected to see much melee combat. Speed and agility isn't as important in this case; so, you give it heavy armor all around and forego the shield. On the opposite extreme is the Kampfer -- with its ephasis on hit-and-run strikes, speed is absolutely vital, so anything that weighs it down is taken out. Thus it has light armor and no shield, relying on its speed to keep it alive on the battlefield.

In post-OYW UC, shields begin to serve another purpose as well. Anti-beam coating is fairly expensive, and not especially effective (it wears away after taking only a few hits). You could apply it to an entire mobile suit (like the Hyaku Shiki) but, generally speaking, it's a better idea to apply it to a shield and then use the shield to take beam shots. Again, you run the risk of not being able to block with the shield, but it's much cheaper (which is an important aspect of any military unit) and easier to maintain that way.

[Binker]

What about every MS having that battle armor as the Alex?

[Wingnut]

What about every MS having that battle armor as the Alex?

Outside of the OYW the stuff would simply make the MS too heavy. Empty the Alex puts on 10 metric tons using the stuff. Plus we really don't know just how effective it is at stopping a beam shot so if it can't do much of anything to stop them, then that added weight will be more of a burden than a help.
It might prove effective if the opponents a suit using it would face are only using projectile weapons, but in an era where every unit has a beam rifle, the added bulk would not be a good thing.

[Binker]

I'm sorry if this thread is a little too much. The thing is; I'm a realistic guy. And I will go and look at things from this anime (Gundam isn't my entire life, in case someone wonders) and go "well that wouldn't be needed at all, they could go this way or do that".

Thats why I love Katoki's versions of the mecha as you look at them and say "see, thast how they would really look". One of upcoming evolves that shows a brand new redesign RX-78 does the same thing. And its sleeker, but it had no shield. Which with that, and Transformers, lead to this thread.

[razgriz]

katoki seems to go more for style over substance with his designs, granted they look great but it would probably be harder trying to cram complex mechanics into a more organic form unless things just kept getting minaturized or streamlined.

as for the shield, solid shields do their job effectively until the abuse they have received is just way too much for the metal to take or the shield carrying arm is lopped off at the elbow or shoulder.

i honestly would feel better having a beam shield, so long as your suit has power flowing through it you know you will have some juice to power your shield and if you get desparate you have a last ditch beam saber.

so shields, any kind of shield for an ms at least is an invaluable asset.

[DeltasTaii]

The evolve Gundam still has a shield, redesigned as it is.

A shield works for the same reason hand-carried weapons rather than guns mounted on a torso work-you can move it around. It's one very, very thick piece of armour plating wherever you need it, rather than spreading around moderately thick armour everywhere. So when you just need to stop that incoming bazooka round, you've got a big enough chunk of Gundarium to do it.

[solid snake]

Why wouldn't you want a shield? I know I would want something between me and the enemy.

[Scorchijs]

If your mech is not fast enough to dodge evevery shot, then shield is a must have. Personally, I would go for the solid shields, not beam shields. Since, I still have problems of imagining beam shield's ability to stop a solid bullet.
In some moments, shields can be even used as a weapon, to knock away the enemy.
If a bullet, or beam hits a weak spot on the shield, it will still lose a part of it's power to penetrate that spot. Increasing the chance, that the armor on your MS will be able to defend against the said bullet/beam.
Anti-beam coating? Only, if used as a secondary line of defense together with a shield. Never, if I have to choose between one of them. You never know when you might stumble upon a enemy unit, that decides to attack you with a burst of good, old fashioned bullets, instead of a beam (It's useless against solid weapons). Also, I don't think, that the ABC can protect you against a beam saber, or any other close combat weapon.

[RGM-79 GM]

ABC can barely protect against beams in UC. Even if a shield was used to block a beam I doubt it would weaken the beam so much that your MS' armor wouldn't be penetrated. In the hands of a rookie a shield would beextra weight but I'd rather have a reliable shield over unreliable ABC. Although a MS with ABC has a higher chance of surviving a beam shot it would be a better idea to just dodge since ABC is no garuntee.

[Dunpeal]

Since, I still have problems of imagining beam shield's ability to stop a solid bullet.

If a beam can penetrate anything, then a beam shield can pretty much annihilate any solid bullet fired at it.

Personally I would go with beam shield. It has better defensive cababilities, is somewhat transparent and doesn't limit the FOV as much as a solid shield, doesn't weigh down the MS and can be used as a weapon.

[Scorchijs]

If a beam can penetrate anything, then a beam shield can pretty much annihilate any solid bullet fired at it.

IMO, beam is a certain amount of energy, which is absorbed by the beam shield's energy, however, bullets are "real", solid objects with mass (weight), carrying lots of kinetic energy, unlike beams, who are simply a ray of energy, nothing more. And if the shield is also made from beams, I don't think they can stop a solid object from penetrating it. It simply absorbs part of the bullet's energy, slowing it down, but not stopping it, because they are in contact with each other for a VERY short amount of time. Now, if the beam shield was "thick" enough, it could eventually slow down the bullet, and stop it. However, that would take a very "thick" shield.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Beam shields work not by stopping an incoming projectile, but by destroying it. If a bullet is fired through a beam shield, the beam shield vaporizes the slug, so the MS's armor is pelted by a few scattered metal particles instead of an actual bullet.