Shields

[Wingnut]

That thing the Rig Contio had was practically a VSBR in all but name too, wans't it?

Our own profile on the unit says it was. Though given the size it was more suited for an anti-ship role then an anti-MS function. Of course you can say that about any large cannon.

[Ryujin]

For that analogy to work, you ought to replace "kevlar vest" with "medieval plate-mail armor". There is a point where mobility becomes a higher priority than armor.

Historically, there's no such thing as 'plate mail', and a well-fitted full plate harness is actually pretty easy to move in, given a fit individual. The lads who slogged it out at Goose Green & Wireless Ridge had it much worse, with their 80 lb. backpacks & crappy footwear.

The harness in this video weighs 61 lbs. without the helmet, btw.

[Draco Starcloud]

I once heard that a regular Victory Gundam once had a pair of the V2 Assault's hip-mounted VSBRs mounted on it. The person who'd posted that statement even had a screenshot of the Victory in question. I wish I still had that screenshot.

[razgriz]

ive watched that "how do they make it" show on the discovery channel and it showed a step by step process in making medieval armor, true its really created for maximum mobility without sacrificing too much in terms of protection. they even round off the plate edges so that the suit wearer is not lacerated by his own protection while moving around.

anyways back to shields. taking the chance that really only the vsbr can penetrate a beam shield its still better to take that into account when protecting your ms. you already know it can stop most, just because it cant stop all shots doesnt mean you dont want it and want to rely on speed alone. a modern soldier knows their kevlar vest would do little against an ak-47 round but they would still rather take a slim chance at surviving a fatal shot than just letting themselves get blasted or god forbid trying to matrix oncoming shots.

[Gadget]

So, a fractured rib is better than a bullet wound?

In another words, getting your cockpit slammed (like Kira and Athran in the battle on an island, befor the chest hug move) is better than getting your cockpit slice into half.

[razgriz]

i would hope a hard impact would be more survivable than a slice into and through your cockpit (thinks of nichol)

[latenlazy]

I'd take the cracked rib over the bullet any day. I don't know about you but I'd rather have a bone that's supported by my muscles and surrounding ribs cracked or even snapped than my guts internally bleeding with a hole in them while body fluids flow every which way that they're not supposed to. Similarly I'd rather have some dents in my internal parts or a snapped support structure rather than have the internal parts nonfunctional because of a hole where functional parts should be at.

Also, though the discussion is practically over, to highlight the beam shield's effectiveness I'd imagine that the high temperature from the plasma would almost instantly incinerate any solid projectiles thrown at it, perhaps vaporizing it so quickly they become plasma that then get trapped by the I-field themselves. Of course, this observation is probably not backed by animation.

[Ryujin]

a modern soldier knows their kevlar vest would do little against an ak-47 round but they would still rather take a slim chance at surviving a fatal shot than just letting themselves get blasted or god forbid trying to matrix oncoming shots.

That's what the ceramic SAPI plate inserts for the Interceptor & MTV vests are for.

[razgriz]

i kno there are more destructive rounds out there but i couldnt think of any off the top of my head. it wouldve been too obviously to say that a kevlar vested soldier cant survive a 50 caliber bullet but i wanted to say something a little smaller.

[Antares]

I'm taking this discussion slightly back towards beam shields. Originally I had also expected that they work as a nullifying energy field, countering the one of the beam (like I assume somehow the positron reflector does) but then was educated that they are an omni-block of sorts. Fair enough, since the idea that it is so rife with energy it can pretty much take out any physical projectile too.

That got me wondering how would it work if you slammed the beam shield with high-yield conventional explosives. Please try to bear with me; I am not a physics major. Now, unlike the UC I-Field, I haven't seen CE MS or MA much flinch from intercepting a direct hit of beam fire, when one would assume they would be jerked back (like in the case of the I-Field in 0083). So, I started to think that while the beam shield can stop the immense slug, the slug still detonates (thinking of Destroy in Berlin). When you consider the size of the blast, especially on Earth, wouldn't issues of air pressure and the like become a real problem? I mean, the beam shield cannot stop the slam of air from throwing the MS this way or that, or in the best case bending its limbs most exposed shapeless?

I understand there is a lot of punishment the MS armor can take, but surely there is a limit. More precisely I was thinking about an artillery bombardment and how effective that would be. If the beam shield would be 360 degrees, then it would be a different matter but (excluding Voiture Lumiere) that doesn't exist in CE (yet). Someone please educate me on this theoretical approach to a fictional concept.

[Wingnut]

Like you said, the slug (whatever it is) would have to be rather big and carry a very strong punch to it. Something smaller like the missiles in a Jegan shield don't cut it, but something like a large explosive round that detonated on impact would throw the suit backward. Said MS would not be damaged much, but it would send it to the ground on Earth and flying backward a ways in space. The pilot would also be temporally be disoriented from the blast and if the one that fired the shot can follow up with another attack, say from a beam rifle, while the pilot is still getting his bearings, then the attacker stands a good chance of winning.
At least this is how it would work against a UC beam shield.

Beam shields can be beaten, but it takes a significant effort to do so (unless you have a VSBR or something like it).

[Gadget]

I understand there is a lot of punishment the MS armor can take, but surely there is a limit. More precisely I was thinking about an artillery bombardment and how effective that would be. If the beam shield would be 360 degrees, then it would be a different matter but (excluding Voiture Lumiere) that doesn't exist in CE (yet). Someone please educate me on this theoretical approach to a fictional concept.

A 360 'soild' shield is nothing more than a armoured football. So the only way is to use energy shield. Beside the Voiture Lumiere, there is also the bit funnal shield that way deployed by the Nu and the I-field generator by ZZ and Dendodrium.

But if you notice the 360 shield is not deployed for extended period as they are power consuming. They are deplyed when the situation is desperate. So call the the situation desperate is rather tricky. Dendodrium is a mobile armour, so power supply is not a big issue. And I also notice when such barrier system develpoed, ballistic weapons were becomming obsolate. Maybe, just maybe, if Char rearmed his Sazabi with a slug thrower, he could puch through the Nu's 'diamond shield'. BTY, the Nu have a convention 'solid' sheild as well.

[razgriz]

maybe something like the infinite justice composite solid/beam shield beam saber/boomerang unit would be a good compromise. you can conserve your energy by not having the shield active at all times and only activate it in case of extreme crossfire or close range combat where you know that your solid shield would take a much larger beating. and it doesnt hurt to have an offensive weapon mounted in your shield as well. fend off the attack and then send a message right back.

[Sabersonic]

but something like a large explosive round that detonated on impact would throw the suit backward.

I just have this one question there Wingnut, if the round is indeed detonated by an impact fuse, then how would it detonate since last I checked impact fuse need something a tad bit solid to work effectively and I don't know about you but beam sabers and beam shields don't seem to be that solid.

And if the beam shield is hot enough to vaporise ballistic rounds, what's keeping the impact fuse in detonating the explosives when it's practically melted?

Anyway to get back to the topic at hand, a shield is a good investment for a mobile suit, especially a beam shield. It's kind of like insurance: Chances are you might not need it, but you'll never know.

Side Note: You think kevlar's good against' rounds? Take a look at that Dragon Scale ceramic armor. It even took a grenade at point blank range and nothing went through. Can't say much about impact trauma dampening though.....

[razgriz]

i think thats the next thing that the military thinktanks need to perfect, a body armor that can withstand a high caliber bullet and or grenade that wont turn your internal organs into liquid due to impact blunt force trauma. its like..."hey look the armor is still intact. i cant say the same about the guy wearing it, but wow look the armor is still intact."

[Antares]

@Gadget:
I was mainly thinking of a 360 degree beam shield, yes, and Voiture Lumiere seems to be the only one in CE so far. But the funnel example is indeed interesting, because the shield formed by the Akatsuki's funnels is so far pretty unique in CE and not very well elaborated on to my knowledge. That seemed to work against both beams and missiles (physical warheads) too.

Agreed, the shields suck up a lot of juice and that is also why I figured that a sustained barrage from regular weapons might in fact be better to use tactically in that situation to overcome an enemy protected by a beam shield. When it comes to conserving your energy with a bveam shield though, I agree with razgriz's assesment given the current level of CE tech.

@Sabersonic:
At least in CE even regular rounds are detonated by the beam shield. See Destroy in Berlin for reference. I can't say if the explosion is somehow muffled by the effect of the beam shield, but the ordnance does detonate nonetheless (the fact that the Destroy never even budges despite those hits can perhaps be attributed to its mass?).

[Gadget]

@Gadget:

Agreed, the shields suck up a lot of juice and that is also why I figured that a sustained barrage from regular weapons might in fact be better to use tactically in that situation to overcome an enemy protected by a beam shield. When it comes to conserving your energy with a bveam shield though, I agree with razgriz's assesment given the current level of CE tech.

?).

Unfortunatly, most Gundams are piloted by ace or above average pilots. Either they dodge enemy fire, or the enemy MS get destroyed before the Gundams could be overwhealm. I thinks shield are more for duel between Gundams, or fighting a technically superior MS

[Homeless]

But the funnel example is indeed interesting, because the shield formed by the Akatsuki's funnels is so far pretty unique in CE and not very well elaborated on to my knowledge.

Dreadnought did it first, back in Astray X.

[Bazookafied]

::catches breath:: I should've gotten into this topic when it started! You guys are long winded!

phew... anyways, I'm practically required to bring up AoZ (or so it seems) but its interesting seeing how reliant some mobile suits are on their shield whereas other units tend to do away with them.

If you're familiar with AoZ, you already know about the Sturm Shield. If you don't... shame on you. Although they're no impenetrable beam shield, they seem to serve more of a multi-purpose role than your standard shield. On a beam shield, its only real purpose is to act as a defense for the mobile suit by basically frying or dispersing whatever attack it was hit with. On the Sturm Shield (which later evolves into the idea behind the Gaplant's Beam cannons) they're designed for shielding but also as an extra thrusting source for added maneuverability. The Hazel uses these heavily in its configurations, relying on them for added speed and defense. This sort of dual purpose for the shield seems like a feature worth investing time into. Earlier in this discussion, the Gouf Custom's shield is brought up, as it is displayed in 08th MS Team as being used quite easily as defense as well as an offensive weapon. Though its basically an invincible Gundam, the Heavyarms uses the same idea.

I think the idea behind the shield itself, to protect the mobile suit from an attack is just an invitation to be shot any anyways. More weapons systems rely on how to break through those defenses. In the end, your standard shield or beam shield will just serve that purpose until it fails. However, if the shield has the ability to have a second purpose or multiple uses outside of just protection from attacks, that at least gives you an edge in combat. Its those shields that become important and can actually be valuable in combat.

I'm no expert in post CCA technology, but don't beam shields have an emitter that is exposed when the shield is turned on? I was always under the impression that the emitter isn't protected by the beam shield and was the shield's weak spot. Someone please tell me that this awesome technology doesn't have this glaring downfall!

[Sabersonic]

@Sabersonic:
At least in CE even regular rounds are detonated by the beam shield. See Destroy in Berlin for reference. I can't say if the explosion is somehow muffled by the effect of the beam shield, but the ordnance does detonate nonetheless.

I seriously doubt that the beam saber derived beam shield will have the same characteristics as the beam shields (or whatever they're called in that universe) seen in Destiny.

Also, wasn't the Destroy using Positron Reflectors rather then the "Beam Shield"?