Why the Gouf was chosen for a flying model?

[False Prophet]

The biggest change to a Flight Type Gouf compared to the standard Gouf beside the new backpack is enlarged leg skirts. That begged the question of why didn't they choose the Dom as the base model in the first place, instead of taking the time to modify Gouf units' legs for testing? Why not just bypassed the Gouf Flight Type for the Dom High Speed Experimental Type?

Did the Dom was still in development when the Flight Type Gouf started to be built? Or maybe the Dom's higher weight compared to the Gouf was why it wasn't chosen?

[JEFFPIATT]

it looks like it was due to the Zeon Flying MS project being handled by Zeonic who used there new gouf model as an base for the project. the Dom High Speed Experimental Type was actually an derivative of the Gouf H type tech applied to an Dom frame but switched to faster hovercraft speeds than flight. The EFF Gouf H type units were basically put in hover mode mainly to avoid the engine overload problem that all but the H-8 units had.

[Zeonista]

It makes sense that the Gouf was chosen for the flight mode project. Mainly because the Gouf was already on hand and deployed to Earth. It had a higher baseline performance than the Zaku II, and it was generally reserved for capable pilots who would be able to adjust to the new operational mode. Sure, the Dom might be seen as a better MS for the project, but when the project was developed there were not enough Doms in active service. Also, the DOm and GOuf Flight type do seem to be handling the need for high-speed MS in different ways towards different tasks.

[Gelgoog Jager]

I would recommend checking this post made by Mark:

MS-07H Gouf Flight Test Type: According to the MSV kit manuals, the original four units were created at Side 3 using prototype YMS-07A and YMS-07B units. Production of the MS-07A had already begun at this point, and since the H types were sent to Earth by way of the occupied California Base, they clearly couldn't reach the test site until mid-March at the earliest. The test pilots, in turn, didn't arrive until two weeks after the machines themselves, and the actual testing took eight weeks - according to Gundam Officials, this included two weeks of adjustments, four weeks of test flights, and then two more weeks of readjustments based on the test results. The project was then scaled back, using only two test units, one of which exploded on the tenth day of testing.

At the very earliest, then, testing wouldn't begin until the end of March/beginning of April. The initial round ended eight weeks later, after which the remaining test units were modified and tested for ten more days. So we can assume the project limped along at least until June of U.C. 0079, before the developers gave up and decided to rely on the Dodai YS instead.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14121#p308268

Put simply, the Gouf in the form of the MS-07A was first deployed as early as mid-March during Zeon's 3rd Earth Descent Operation while the basic design of the Dom wouldn't be finished until June and the prototype Dom rolled out in July, which would actually be after the project had been cancelled at first.

One thing that caught my attention is that the MS-07B was actually rolled out on July, which Mark pointed out. I think this could imply that perhaps Zeon didn't intend to roll out the MS-07B at all, instead hoping that the MS-07H project would take off and mass produce that instead.

On the other hand, knowing that the mass production type Dom wouldn't enter production until late September justifies why the Dodai YS seems to be designed only for regular size MS, such as the MS-06, MS-07 and Ms-08 series, and not large-sized units like the Dom.

[Seto Kaiba]

Nobody had the heart to tell Zeonic to stop Gouf-ing around.

... I'll show myself out.

[False Prophet]

Put simply, the Gouf in the form of the MS-07A was first deployed as early as mid-March during Zeon's 3rd Earth Descent Operation while the basic design of the Dom wouldn't be finished until June and the prototype Dom rolled out in July, which would actually be after the project had been cancelled at first.

One thing that caught my attention is that the MS-07B was actually rolled out on July, which Mark pointed out. I think this could imply that perhaps Zeon didn't intend to roll out the MS-07B at all, instead hoping that the MS-07H project would take off and mass produce that instead.

On the other hand, knowing that the mass production type Dom wouldn't enter production until late September justifies why the Dodai YS seems to be designed only for regular size MS, such as the MS-06, MS-07 and Ms-08 series, and not large-sized units like the Dom.

Say, if the Dom design was only finished by June and the prototype came out in July, then when does it leave the Efreet? Was it designed in parallel with the Dom, which meant that the design was done while the MS-07A was still in testing? If so, then did the Efreet take any design note from the Gouf, such as reducing weight (I still wonder to this day about how could they make the MS-08TX so much lighter than the MS-07B.)

[Gelgoog Jager]

Can you please share the weight specs you are checking? In Mahq's profiles the Gouf has an empty weight of 58.5 MT compared to the Efreet's 59.4 MT:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msgundam/ms-07b.htm
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/crossd ... s-08tx.htm

As for the Efreet development... it depends on what you consider canon:

Originally we assumed that the Efreet should have been based on the YMS-08 given its model number, which didn't make much sense since the Efreet seems to lack leg jet thrusters, the one key feature the YMS-07A lacked and which the MS-07 series incorporated from it.

MSD, essentially a new MSV series for The Origin canon, has make things both a bit more convoluted and also bit more simple:

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/index.html

One hand the Gouf and Dom trees have added a bunch new units that are supposed to fill some gaps, though in my personal opinion some simply don't make much sense (MS-06RD-4 has been changed from a testbed for adapting the Dom for space use, into a predecessor of the ground use Dom), but on the other hand the we now have 3 distinct YMS-08 prototypes:

-The YMS-08 from MSV is now the YMS-08A which remains a unit that influenced the finalized MS-07 model.
-There's now a new YMS-08B, which is essentially a middle step between the MS-06RD-4 and the YMS-09.
-Lastly, there's now a YMS-08TX, which would logically be the base model for the Efreet. No image of it exists AFAIK.

Special mention goes to the new YMS-11, which supposedly is the prototype for the MS-11 Act Zaku, which is odd since we know that the MS-11 number original belonged tot he Gelgoog before the project shifted in favor of developing a MS capable of using beam weapons, changing its model number to YMS-14. I'm not very familiar with this unit, but the gundam wikia (a very unreliable source of info) claims that it was designed as a high performance close combat MS meant to replace the Zaku II. This could imply that the difference between the YMS-11 and the MS-11 is also the change of focus towards usage of beam weapons, but again that's something that happened with the Gelgoog, so I would assume that the MS-11 Gelgoog and this prototype should have existed at the same time, before the Zeon switched its priorities towards beam weapons which would be the point in which the Gelgoog switched to the YMS-14 model number and the Prototype Act Zaku switched tot he MS-11 mode number, meaning that it should have had a different number before that.

A little piece of trivia: the MS-14B custom used by Uma Lighting has a very unique head that supposedly its one of the few prototype components made for the Gelgoog while it had the MS-11 designation, before it switched to the YMS-14 model number.

http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msv-r/ms-14b-uma.htm

[False Prophet]

Can you please share the weight specs you are checking? In Mahq's profiles the Gouf has an empty weight of 58.5 MT compared to the Efreet's 59.4 MT:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msgundam/ms-07b.htm
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/crossd ... s-08tx.htm

As for the Efreet development... it depends on what you consider canon:

Originally we assumed that the Efreet should have been based on the YMS-08 given its model number, which didn't make much sense since the Efreet seems to lack leg jet thrusters, the one key feature the YMS-07A lacked and which the MS-07 series incorporated from it.

MSD, essentially a new MSV series for The Origin canon, has make things both a bit more convoluted and also bit more simple:

http://www.gundam-the-origin.net/msd/index.html

One hand the Gouf and Dom trees have added a bunch new units that are supposed to fill some gaps, though in my personal opinion some simply don't make much sense (MS-06RD-4 has been changed from a testbed for adapting the Dom for space use, into a predecessor of the ground use Dom), but on the other hand the we now have 3 distinct YMS-08 prototypes:

-The YMS-08 from MSV is now the YMS-08A which remains a unit that influenced the finalized MS-07 model.
-There's now a new YMS-08B, which is essentially a middle step between the MS-06RD-4 and the YMS-09.
-Lastly, there's now a YMS-08TX, which would logically be the base model for the Efreet. No image of it exists AFAIK.

Special mention goes to the new YMS-11, which supposedly is the prototype for the MS-11 Act Zaku, which is odd since we know that the MS-11 number original belonged tot he Gelgoog before the project shifted in favor of developing a MS capable of using beam weapons, changing its model number to YMS-14. I'm not very familiar with this unit, but the gundam wikia (a very unreliable source of info) claims that it was designed as a high performance close combat MS meant to replace the Zaku II. This could imply that the difference between the YMS-11 and the MS-11 is also the change of focus towards usage of beam weapons, but again that's something that happened with the Gelgoog, so I would assume that the MS-11 Gelgoog and this prototype should have existed at the same time, before the Zeon switched its priorities towards beam weapons which would be the point in which the Gelgoog switched to the YMS-14 model number and the Prototype Act Zaku switched tot he MS-11 mode number, meaning that it should have had a different number before that.

A little piece of trivia: the MS-14B custom used by Uma Lighting has a very unique head that supposedly its one of the few prototype components made for the Gelgoog while it had the MS-11 designation, before it switched to the YMS-14 model number.

http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msv-r/ms-14b-uma.htm

Ah, sorry about the weight. I remembered it wrong. The Elfreet was not at all lighter than the Gouf.

But what would be the prototype for the Elfreet be like? Do we have any idea whether was it created before or after the Gouf Custom was offered to ace pilots? Because as I see it, had they go out with the Elfreet, the Gouf Custom would have been superfluous.

Regarding the Gelgoog and Act Zaku, wasn't the Gabaldy Alpha had the "MS-" designation? If Zeon change the Gelgoog designation after they decided that the MS need more research to be adapted to beam weapons (hence the "Y"), did that mean there is a prototype to the Gabaldy Alpha built around beam weapons, and the one we have now is the mass production version?

[Gelgoog Jager]

Let’s take a step back to the vanilla Gouf: supposedly the main difference between the YMS-07A and the MS-07A would have been the leg thrusters that allow the Gouf to perform jet powered jumps. These in particular are what the YMS-08 (YMS-08A) provided to the finalized Gouf designed. I single this out because the standard Efreet is another design that lacks them. However, both the Efreet Custom and Efreet Nacht were upgraded with leg parts that included them.

Based on that, and the fact that some versions of the Efreet seem to have verniers, I’m inclined to think that the Efreet, and in turn likely its prototype, might have not been ground machines but rather general use machines.

As to what made them special... no idea, but perhaps they were simply made with the best components available in an attempt to a higher performance successor to the Zaku. Also, if we part from the idea that the Gouf project aimed at producing a flying MS a until June and the Dom project was focused on producing a high mobility ground MS, it makes more sense that prototype of the Efreet might be trying to push in a different direction. I could imagine that an advantage of the design would be that it could be finished quickly since it doesn’t involve any new feature, even if it was more expensive than a Zaku or Gouf.

Regarding the Gouf Custom, this machine is a sub product of the MS-07H8. More specifically we are told that the MS-07B was mass produced at Granada and California Base. When the Zeon homeland began producing the high performance Sparta for the MS-07H8, components were sent to Granada which began using them for their version of the MS-07B. We are told that this made the Granada version (MS-07B-3) better than the pure California version (MS-07B).

The MS-17 (MS-17A) Galbaldy Alpha is literally the result of producing Zeonic’s Gelgoog (YMS-14) on the production lines Zimmad had prepared for the Gyan (YMS-15). As such there wasn’t a YMS-17. The best evidence of this is how the upgraded MS-17R uses parts from the MS-14BR and the weapons of the Gyan.

As a quick note, much how the Gelgoog was originally the MS-11, the Gyan was originally the MS-X10. The Zudah’s EMS-10 model number was likely chosen to indicate a relationship between these two Zimmad models, which would culminate not the EMS-10F which is a Zudah upgraded with Gyan parts.

On the other hand I think I might have possibly found a precedent for the MS-11 & YMS-11 change: at one point the project for the Pyscommu Zaku (MS-06Z) had the MS-16X Bishop designation. But like the Gelgoog and Gyan it was changed when Zeon found out about the Gundam. So why became of the MS-16 model number? Well it would be given to the YMS-16M Xamel. As a quick side note, the MS torso of the Xamel seems to be based on the YMY-05 Hildolfr, so we might as well assume it’s following the tradition of assigning abandoned model numbers to projects already underway.

Lastly, the MS-14Jg Gelgoog Jager and MS-17B Galbaldy Beta are suspected to related, based on their color scheme, high performance among their respective series and late introduction. The main difference between the Zeon MS-17B and the EF’s RMS-117 is the addition of systems (limiters, cockpit, etc.) that allowed the MS to be piloted safely by regular pilots, since otherwise only skilled ones could handle its high performance. Its top performance is the reason the EF turned to it when they decided that their MS forces were outdated after Operation Stardust.