What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

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What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 am

In previous message boards, I've been told that the Operation Meteor and Celestial Being Gundams were not prototype or custom models. Rather, they were just specialized mobile suits that spawned from two different prototypes, including Wing Zero and 0 Gundam, respectively. Is this true?

And what about the IBO Gundams? All I know about them is that there were 72 Gundam frames ever built during the Calamity War, and they were each customized with interchangeable external parts to suit their respective pilots. Right?

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:22 pm

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 am
In previous message boards, I've been told that the Operation Meteor and Celestial Being Gundams were not prototype or custom models. Rather, they were just specialized mobile suits that spawned from two different prototypes, including Wing Zero and 0 Gundam, respectively. Is this true?
Essentially, yes... though I am not 100% certain that "prototype" necessarily is the correct word for either the Operation Meteor team's XXXG-00W0 Wing Gundam Zero or Celestial Being's GN-000 0 Gundam. The XXXG-00W0 Wing Gundam Zero existed only as development data and blueprints, from which the five Gundams used in Operation Meteor were all derived after its five developers split up, and wasn't constructed until after all five derivative models had been built and fielded. The GN-000 0 Gundam isn't a direct predecessor to the Gundams of Gundam 00. It was a first-generation GN Drive-powered mobile suit, and Krung Thep technology demonstrator for early GN particle-based technologies. It's, at least in my read of the material, more analogous to an engineering development mule. The 2nd Generation Gundam units Krung Thep produced could easily be argued to be the true prototypes of the lot, as they're clearly earlier versions of the 3rd Generation Gundam designs fielded by Celestial Being in the series of interventions that led to the formation of the Earth Federation and A-LAWS, and the 4th and 5th Generation designs that followed.

The Gundams fielded by the Operation Meteor agents in Gundam Wing, and Celestial Being in Gundam 00 are one-off production mobile suits, for all practical intents and purposes. They're not prototypes in the sense that there's not a mass production model directly derived from them, nor are they ace custom units because there's no preceding mass production model to be customized from.


WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 am
And what about the IBO Gundams? All I know about them is that there were 72 Gundam frames ever built during the Calamity War, and they were each customized with interchangeable external parts to suit their respective pilots. Right?
I've not yet torn into second Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Mechanics and World book that I grabbed at Super Dimension Convention earlier this year, but I would guess based on what's said in the show that the Gundams share a limited mass production base frame that was then customized to fit the operational needs or personal taste of their original Calamity War operators.

Information on the origins of the Gundams in the Post-Disaster timeline is understandably sparse since over 300 years have passed since the war they were built for, and Gjallarhorn jealously guards the remaining technical knowledge and historical records from the Calamity War. So much so that Tekkadan and the Admoss Company unearthed a dormant Mobile Armor and both they and the more knowledgeable Teiwaz engineers on Saisei had no idea what they'd found in that halfmetal mine.
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:37 am

the GN-000 0 Gundam was more of a technology demonstrator for the GN drive tech being basically a bare bones unit with one saber and a beam rifle to test out basic equiptment to see if it was functional. the later GNY series was to test specialized units before the final models. the 0 gundam was basically what the RX-78 was planned to be before it was stuck as a combat unit. the Duel from seed was filled that role as being the first test unit and was planned to be assigned to the ship as a guard unit protecting the buster and the Archangel before it was captured.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by SonicSP » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:30 am

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 am
In previous message boards, I've been told that the Operation Meteor and Celestial Being Gundams were not prototype or custom models. Rather, they were just specialized mobile suits that spawned from two different prototypes, including Wing Zero and 0 Gundam, respectively. Is this true?
0 Gundam as mentioned is more of a proof of concept though I guess.

The second generation Celestial Being Gundams each were prototypes of each of the lines as well as of specific GN technologies.

Astraea - Heavy Beam Weapons, Anti GN Field Melee
Sadalsuud - Sensors
Abuhool - Transformation, Stealth
Plutone - GN Field, GN Composite Armor, Core Fighter

And what about the IBO Gundams? All I know about them is that there were 72 Gundam frames ever built during the Calamity War, and they were each customized with interchangeable external parts to suit their respective pilots. Right?
That should be correct for the most part.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by E08 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:09 am

If I remember correctly, so far, none of the Gundam Frames used in the Calamity War are said to be customized to suit their pilots. The differences in look seems to be based on functions or purposes.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am

E08 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:09 am
If I remember correctly, so far, none of the Gundam Frames used in the Calamity War are said to be customized to suit their pilots. The differences in look seems to be based on functions or purposes.
Then they're limited production models, right?

And the Gundams from Wing and 00 are limited production models, too. Right?

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:53 am

Wing: the Wing zero was the Tech demostrater and the 5 other units are one off customs based on that data The Wing zero was an enhanced version of the earlier OZ Tech demo unit Tallgeese the prototype of the Leo.
OO: the O Gundam was a Technical Demonstrator for the GN drive and the GN beam rifle and GN beam saber and used an early cone cover. the GNY series were test models for Specialized mission roles with refined equipment and used a 4 thruster cover for the drive, the GN units were custom units made for a single combat role. the GNW line was a standard unit that was customized for various roles and used to collect date for the GNX line.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:38 am

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am
Then they're limited production models, right?
More a set of Ace Custom units off a common frame... the base frame was a limited production frame, but the hardware hung on it was seemingly unique to each unit.


WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am
And the Gundams from Wing and 00 are limited production models, too. Right?
"Limited" in the sense that, due to material scarcity (Wing) or a lack of available GN drive systems (00) and an insufficient number of pilots (both), only one of each was ever built.

They're all one-offs. Limited production implies more than one.
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:43 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:38 am
WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am
Then they're limited production models, right?
More a set of Ace Custom units off a common frame... the base frame was a limited production frame, but the hardware hung on it was seemingly unique to each unit.
Which is weird, because E08 said that the Gundam frames from Iron Blooded Orphans were not custom models.
Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:38 am
WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am
And the Gundams from Wing and 00 are limited production models, too. Right?
"Limited" in the sense that, due to material scarcity (Wing) or a lack of available GN drive systems (00) and an insufficient number of pilots (both), only one of each was ever built.

They're all one-offs. Limited production implies more than one.
Also, the Gundam wiki doesn't seem to have a "one-off" production category. It's just "limited production", "mass production," "custom", and "prototype".

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Dark Duel » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:15 pm

Well, they're not "custom" units in the traditionally understood sense of being "customized by/for the individual pilot" the way, for instance, Elijah Kiel's custom ZAKU or Gai's GINN are.
The individual units are unique in terms of their equipment, because that's what differentiates them from each other much like Wing's original Gundams, which are unique but all share a common development base and certain internal characteristics - in IBO's case, the internal frame being identical.
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:21 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:15 pm
Well, they're not "custom" units in the traditionally understood sense of being "customized by/for the individual pilot" the way, for instance, Elijah Kiel's custom ZAKU or Gai's GINN are.
The individual units are unique in terms of their equipment, because that's what differentiates them from each other much like Wing's original Gundams, which are unique but all share a common development base and certain internal characteristics - in IBO's case, the internal frame being identical.
I know that.

The Gundams from Wing all spawned from Wing Zero, while the Gundams from 00 spawned from the 0 Gundam, followed by the 2nd gen GNY units. And, in IBO, it was less about the Gundams and more about the internal frames inside all of that external armor, and because only 72 Gundams were ever built, due to the twin Ahab reactors, that would have made them limited production models as well.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:44 pm

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:43 am
Which is weird, because E08 said that the Gundam frames from Iron Blooded Orphans were not custom models.
The actual Mobile Suit is basically the frame, in that case... so they're not custom-built Mobile Suits so much as custom sets of armor and equipment bolted to a limited production MS.


WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:43 am
Also, the Gundam wiki doesn't seem to have a "one-off" production category. It's just "limited production", "mass production," "custom", and "prototype".
*shrugs* So it's not perfect... its terms tend to fit the realities of the Universal Century better than the other stand-alone shows where they don't justify the hero mecha as a "super prototype" that will eventually be the basis for mass production Mobile Suits.

It's hard to argue that any of the Celestial Being 3rd Generation Gundams, or the Operation Meteor Gundams were truly production models, since for reasons of cost, material requirements, and/or manpower they were planned and built as one-of-a-kind Mobile Suits. It's not quite a "No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup" situation but it's pretty close WRT how it's handled in-series.
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by WildeHopps_Shipper » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:56 pm

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:44 pm
WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:43 am
Which is weird, because E08 said that the Gundam frames from Iron Blooded Orphans were not custom models.
The actual Mobile Suit is basically the frame, in that case... so they're not custom-built Mobile Suits so much as custom sets of armor and equipment bolted to a limited production MS.


WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:43 am
Also, the Gundam wiki doesn't seem to have a "one-off" production category. It's just "limited production", "mass production," "custom", and "prototype".
*shrugs* So it's not perfect... its terms tend to fit the realities of the Universal Century better than the other stand-alone shows where they don't justify the hero mecha as a "super prototype" that will eventually be the basis for mass production Mobile Suits.

It's hard to argue that any of the Celestial Being 3rd Generation Gundams, or the Operation Meteor Gundams were truly production models, since for reasons of cost, material requirements, and/or manpower they were planned and built as one-of-a-kind Mobile Suits. It's not quite a "No Plans, No Prototype, No Backup" situation but it's pretty close WRT how it's handled in-series.
"WRT"?

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:29 pm

WildeHopps_Shipper wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:56 pm
"WRT"?
Shorthand for "With Respect To".
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:31 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the frames of the 5 Gundams in Wing also the same?
Or at least it is what they are pushing to retcon in the newer models?
It seems like they can simply use each others parts (Like Heero "borrowing" (stole) parts from DeathScythe), locations of parts are pretty much the same(Like Duo can pin point the location of the self destruction system of Wing and disarm it without over damaging the unit)

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:32 pm

MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:31 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the frames of the 5 Gundams in Wing also the same?
Only one of them was able to transform, and there were some pretty significant structural differences in the other four... like Heavyarms having rotary cannons in the chest, or Shenlong's extensible arm.


MythSearcher wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:31 pm
It seems like they can simply use each others parts (Like Heero "borrowing" (stole) parts from DeathScythe), locations of parts are pretty much the same(Like Duo can pin point the location of the self destruction system of Wing and disarm it without over damaging the unit)
The cockpit seems to be pretty standard, and one would expect that the locations of the auto-destruct packages would be relatively similar if they were targeting proprietary systems only.
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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by SonicSP » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:03 pm

E08 wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:09 am
If I remember correctly, so far, none of the Gundam Frames used in the Calamity War are said to be customized to suit their pilots. The differences in look seems to be based on functions or purposes.
There is a line in Page 94 of IBO Mechanics and World 2 under the "Specialty of the Gundam Frame" section (around the second or third line) that says something like the Gundam Frames were "aircraft that emphasizes on the personality of the pilot, and that each was customized to a mobile body that makes it easy to fight mobile armors."

Assuming I translated it correctly, it seems to me that it implies that the pilots had some say in how they were customized but my guess is that it would have to align with broader functional military strategy somehow (for example limited number of Deinsleif use when on the surface as noted elsewhere).

I'm speculating that most of them weren't given the freedom that Graham and Billy had with the GN Flag in Gundam 00 to go against the overall strategy, unless they're legendary god-like badasses like Agnika perhaps.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:33 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:03 pm
There is a line in Page 94 of IBO Mechanics and World 2 under the "Specialty of the Gundam Frame" section (around the second or third line) that says something like the Gundam Frames were "aircraft that emphasizes on the personality of the pilot, and that each was customized to a mobile body that makes it easy to fight mobile armors."

Assuming I translated it correctly, it seems to me that it implies that the pilots had some say in how they were customized but my guess is that it would have to align with broader functional military strategy somehow (for example limited number of Deinsleif use when on the surface as noted elsewhere).

I'm speculating that most of them weren't given the freedom that Graham and Billy had with the GN Flag in Gundam 00 to go against the overall strategy, unless they're legendary god-like badasses like Agnika perhaps.
Haven't read the actual book, but is it possible to translate the term to "tuned" instead "customised"?

Though considering the resources and military strength they controlled when manufacturing the Gundams, 72 frames' customization wouldn't be too out of hand and resources consuming.(Even 72 custom built units wouldn't be too much of an impact anyway).

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by SonicSP » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:45 am

MythSearcher wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:33 pm
Haven't read the actual book, but is it possible to translate the term to "tuned" instead "customised"?

Though considering the resources and military strength they controlled when manufacturing the Gundams, 72 frames' customization wouldn't be too out of hand and resources consuming.(Even 72 custom built units wouldn't be too much of an impact anyway).
The word used was カスタマイズ (kasutamaizu), which is "customized" in katakana.

I don't know personally whether it might have a different meaning in Japanese than English though. Afterall, English words used in Japanese language can have different meanings than they do in English.

On a related note, I think the word "tuned" in English can also refer to a customization of sorts depending on how it's used.

The big difference seeemingly to me is that the word tuned tends to be used for mechanical things while customized is more broad and can including non-mechanical things like clothing.

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Re: What were the Gundams from Wing, 00, and IBO?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:45 am
On a related note, I think the word "tuned" in English can also refer to a customization of sorts depending on how it's used.

The big difference seeemingly to me is that the word tuned tends to be used for mechanical things while customized is more broad and can including non-mechanical things like clothing.
From my own extensive translation work on Macross and the few Gundam books I've done bits and pieces of, "tuning" and "customization" are generally presented as separate classes of modification.

Tuning typically refers to making adjustments to the existing (stock) parts or systems to improve one or more aspects of their performance nondestructively. This can entail making minor physical modifications to a stock part, but most commonly entails modifying calibration data in software or firmware (if not the software or firmware itself) to change the timing of mechanical processes, adjust system setpoints for things like clock rates on the micros or system voltages, or to remove or define new "redline" safety limits.

Customization refers to replacement of stock parts with non-standard or non-production hardware that either improves the unit's performance or adds new capabilities that it was not originally designed with.


Tuning a car would be doing something like changing the valve timings in the engine controller's firmware to increase the power in a particular RPM band. Customizing a car would be doing something like dropping in a different engine, adding a supercharger, or equipping it with nitrous oxide tanks.

An example of a mobile suit subjected to performance tuning would be Char's MS-06S Zaku II from Gundam: the Origin. Physically, it's a stock MS-06S Zaku II. Its greater thruster performance comes from taking out the safety limits that capped the thruster system output to prevent the mobile suit from damaging itself. So Char was able to run the thrusters to the physical limits of the hardware at the expense of risking catastrophic failure of the thrusters or damage to the rest of the MS. Graham Aker's custom Flag would've been a simple ace tuning job if Professor Eifman hadn't swapped its engines and armor out as well.

Custom mobile suits, well, there are so many examples of those you hardly need me to pick one for you.
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