Skycrapers in Space Colonies

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Kyuzo Aoi
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Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Kyuzo Aoi » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:36 pm

I've read that a UC-style space colony has a diameter of 6 kilometers. What are the maximum height allowable for a skyscraper?
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:44 am

From a simple calculation, at 250m, you get about 0.07g less gravity than "ground" level in an O'Neill Cylinder Island 3 type colony (i.e. UC ones)

Whether that is acceptable is up to your speculation.
This is the formula: a = 4π^2R/ T^2
where "a" stands for acceleration (in ms^-2, you divide 9.8 to get the g in g-force)
R is the radius (ground is about 3200m, you minus the height of your building) and T is time (120 seconds in this case)
You can see that the formula is linear to R, so you get a linear relationship.(i.e., height at X% of 3200m, a is deducted by X%)

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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:05 pm

To the best of my recollection (admittedly, it has been a number of years since I watched anything UC Gundam, where O'Neill I-3 cylinders are most prevalent), the buildings inside of colonies are rarely very tall. I certainly do not remember ever having seen any skyscrapers, for instance, inside of a colony.
I believe this, in all likelihood, has to do with what MythSearcher mentioned, which is that the higher up you go, the lower the artificial gravity in the colony will be. It's not much of an impact, but it still counts.
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:17 am

Dark Duel wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:05 pm
To the best of my recollection (admittedly, it has been a number of years since I watched anything UC Gundam, where O'Neill I-3 cylinders are most prevalent), the buildings inside of colonies are rarely very tall. I certainly do not remember ever having seen any skyscrapers, for instance, inside of a colony.
I believe this, in all likelihood, has to do with what MythSearcher mentioned, which is that the higher up you go, the lower the artificial gravity in the colony will be. It's not much of an impact, but it still counts.
Well, that and actually another reason, the population capacity you can have in a colony.
We can have really high density population on Earth thanks to the huge area of non-populated land and ocean, where they are converting tons and tons of carbon dioxide to oxygen.
In the colony, you can't really support that many people if the whole colony is high density. So might as well just spread the people out and increase the living standard, which will obviously please the people more and lower your risk of a rebellion.

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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by tHeWasTeDYouTh » Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:39 am

I think they got skycrapers inside the colonies of G-Savior.........................LOL
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Dark Duel » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:57 am

It's probably been at least 12 years since I last saw that movie, and as utterly forgettable as it was overall, I remember very little of the details. Might have to go back and check though.
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:07 am

It'd be pretty hard to have no skyscrapers if they really want to have a 25 million population in each of the colonies.
https://truth.bahamut.com.tw/s01/201303 ... 2361d8.JPG
The red area is the rough area of an O'Neill Cylinder, and the map is Hong Kong, and there are a lot of skyscrapers with over 30 stories in Hong Kong, with a really high population density of 6600 people per km^2.
And we only have about 7.5 million pop. in HK.
You can use the 21000 people per km^2 of Macau, but seriously, they have a lot of pop. overseas, esp. HK.

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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:52 pm

Yeah. I suppose the actual size of the colony itself, and how much of it is taken up by solid living space versus open areas, would make a difference. I personally believe a closed-type cylinder(I believe Green Noa/Gryps were closed cylinders, but I'm not 100% sure) would be much more likely to support a very large population than the more commonly-seen open-type. Unless said colony was substantially larger than the typical colony we've seen thus far.

Of course, I'm kinda spinning my wheels here, really. My question now is, outside of G-Saviour, do we have any rough figures for the average population of a colony in UC?
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:42 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:52 pm
Yeah. I suppose the actual size of the colony itself, and how much of it is taken up by solid living space versus open areas, would make a difference. I personally believe a closed-type cylinder(I believe Green Noa/Gryps were closed cylinders, but I'm not 100% sure) would be much more likely to support a very large population than the more commonly-seen open-type. Unless said colony was substantially larger than the typical colony we've seen thus far.

Of course, I'm kinda spinning my wheels here, really. My question now is, outside of G-Saviour, do we have any rough figures for the average population of a colony in UC?
In Rapport Deluxe publications, they have a rough estimation of how in UC do they get 11 billion population.
Which I saw people quoting around the net as an official source.(I have the book, well, two with this chart.)
The main problem of this is it is at best semi-canon and actually ignores the fact that 11 billion is the figure in 0050, not 0079 but they claimed it to be 0079's figure.
Also, they are not very good in math or had a pretty bad understanding of the term "average".

11 billion, 9 billion spacenoids,
Average of 40 batches in each Side (a batch is a colony)
Side/Population in 1 batch/estimated population/remarks
1/25 million/1 billion/-
2/25 million/1 billion/-
3/50 million/2 billion/close type
4/25 million/1 billion/-
5/25 million/2 billion/80 batches
6/25 million/1 billion/unscathed(in the OYW)
Moon cities/Von Braun, etc./800 million/ever-lasting cities
People living in space/technician, workers, etc./200 million/-
People living on Earth/EF related people/2 billion/-
Total: 11 billion.

Obviously, since Side 5 has 80 colonies and others all had 40, the average is NOT 40.
(Unless you count Side 7, because it only has 1 colony in 0079 and 2[Gryps] some time after OYW, but they obviously ignored Side 7 in the chart)

And in the MSG movie II and III, they stated spacenoids takes up half of the population, not 80%, so Earth must have much more people by 0079.

It'd make much more sense if they had like 100 colonies in each Side(and 200 in Side 5), but official sources seems to think otherwise and really bought into the idea of 40~80 colonies per Side.(as per Encyclopaedia Ver. 1.5)

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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Side 7 is also under construction as of late 0079 IIRC, so even if you assume an average population of 25m/colony, I very much doubt that it would have been housing that many people.
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:53 am

Dark Duel wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:19 pm
Side 7 is also under construction as of late 0079 IIRC, so even if you assume an average population of 25m/colony, I very much doubt that it would have been housing that many people.
That is not the only problem you got.

It seems like some sources suggest a population for Zeon a mere 150~180 million.
I still have to come across one but recently someone asked about the 0079 population and quoted 180 million and thought it is ridiculously low(Yes) and a search online seems to have another forum using the number 150 million back in 2016.(search for population of Zeon 150 million in Google)

Which would make even less sense if true.

However, trying to do some sort of rationalization might be possible.
Say, the 180 million figure isn't a true figure, but would be much more complicated.
Under the sanctions of EF, Zeon cannot support the population the colonies are build to hold, so people simply fled from the Side. So somehow, the official population of Zeon might have dropped significantly.
However, there are secret supporters of Zeon in other Sides and the Lunar cities, thus they are probably still receiving a large quantity of supplies that can support more population, but cannot officially claim so.(Because that will be too obvious to the EF they have secret supporters) On the other hand, Zeon admirers and Anti-EF illegal immigrants probably also sky rocketed, which they cannot really officially accept(at least not report to EF)
So there you have, people secretly living in Side 3 without identity in the EF files, where EF still thinks they lived in their original Side until the governing body of such colony reported to EF. So, if the colonies didn't do the reporting well(highly likely since EF didn't really care that much to begin with and the spacenoids should generally be sympathetic to Zeon) But reported people moving out of Zeon pretty accurately, you can get extra population and EF might send in extra supplies to support the extra population, some of these will be secretly transported to Zeon and some will end up in some greedy politicians' pocket (and some will also likely be captured by Zeon disguising as space pirates and the respective colonies can likely ask EF for more. Guess who hinted Zeon to capture those shipments?)
Now the actual population will be a big mess, the EF probably won't be completely fooled since they also have their own intelligence, but also would be pretty hard to get actual numbers.
Gihren's Assassination Plan had a scene where the protagonists look at the empty apartments at night and claim that they were set to light up randomly to give a false sense of them being occupied. This is a EF movie, so what if they really have people living in them? Maybe not all of them, but at least some of them.

A Chinese doujinji suggested that they had even built much more colonies to house the over population, but I'd say that would be quite impossible if the EF really cared. The book claims that if you are in the back side of the moon, you can almost see those colonies with telescopes, but the EF simply ignores them.(even after OYW)

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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by Dark Duel » Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:26 pm

That last point is highly unlikely but possible post-OYW due to how complacent the post-OYW EF government has been established as being, at least in the period from 0079/80 to the mid-0080s with the establishment of the Titans in 0083. So in that 3-4 year period, maybe. That said, given the probably time- and resource-intensive nature of coloy construction, I would still say that is to be very highly unlikely, no matter how complacent the EF got.
Pre- and during the OYW, not a snowball's chance in you-know-where of Zeon getting away with building more colonies. Pre-OYW, the EF would've been watching that too closely IMO, and during the war both sides were too busy trying to kill each other in massive numbers for them to be all that preoccupied with anything else.
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Re: Skycrapers in Space Colonies

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:21 pm

Dark Duel wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:26 pm
That last point is highly unlikely but possible post-OYW due to how complacent the post-OYW EF government has been established as being, at least in the period from 0079/80 to the mid-0080s with the establishment of the Titans in 0083. So in that 3-4 year period, maybe. That said, given the probably time- and resource-intensive nature of coloy construction, I would still say that is to be very highly unlikely, no matter how complacent the EF got.
Pre- and during the OYW, not a snowball's chance in you-know-where of Zeon getting away with building more colonies. Pre-OYW, the EF would've been watching that too closely IMO, and during the war both sides were too busy trying to kill each other in massive numbers for them to be all that preoccupied with anything else.
I'd say unless all the way into 0088, after the rule of Titans, that will be impossible.
If exist, those will be too obvious a target for Titans, they'd immediately launch a full on attack since those will be the best gathering places for any anti-Earth movements. It'd be much easier to hide in all those colonies Zeon destroyed during OWW, say, choose the ones that are punctured towards the end, build a wall inside to block off that part, viola, you get a working colony that still looked damaged outside.

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