OYW ms development

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Dark Duel
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Re: OYW ms development

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:00 pm

The GP series IIRC were developed at Von Braun except the GP03, which was developed at La Vie en Rose. MInd you I haven't watched 0083 in years so I'm going off memory.
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Re: OYW ms development

Post by krullnar » Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:40 am

Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:00 pm
The GP series IIRC were developed at Von Braun except the GP03, which was developed at La Vie en Rose. MInd you I haven't watched 0083 in years so I'm going off memory.
That's what i thought which I think gives further credence to the idea of Luna II being a major MS production site for the federation seem silly. Question in regards to the 30 or so RX-79(G) units deployed. From what i gathered they are pre production units which means hand built. They seemed to be quite successful on ground engagements so where the cost of the units to high to continue the line, because I can't seem to find any real successor units.
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Re: OYW ms development

Post by HalfDemonInuyasha » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:42 am

krullnar wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:40 am
Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:00 pm
The GP series IIRC were developed at Von Braun except the GP03, which was developed at La Vie en Rose. MInd you I haven't watched 0083 in years so I'm going off memory.
That's what i thought which I think gives further credence to the idea of Luna II being a major MS production site for the federation seem silly. Question in regards to the 30 or so RX-79(G) units deployed. From what i gathered they are pre production units which means hand built. They seemed to be quite successful on ground engagements so where the cost of the units to high to continue the line, because I can't seem to find any real successor units.
One major reason is cost, yes, because the Ground Combat Gundam (and the Ground Combat GM) used Luna Titanium Alloy / Gundarium Alpha alloy like the Project V units.

Another major reason is because the Ground Combat Gundams are all made from spare parts of the RX-78 Gundam (basically parts not seen as quite good enough to use for the RX-78 Gundam, but still high performance all the same), so any unit that got too damaged, much less destroyed, simply had nothing to replace and repair them with. This is why, when Shiro Amada's Gundam gets trashed after the 08th MS Team's failed attempt to capture the Apsarus mobile armor in the desert, it had to be practically rebuilt from the ground up, leading to a completely different looking unit (the Ez8) from the others. Karen Joshua's Gundam merely lost its head to an Acguy punch, but even she had to make due with a Ground Combat GM's head for a replacement simply because there was no spare head or parts to make a new one.

And a third major reason is versatility. While the Ground Combat Gundam / GM was successful in their use, they are still limited to...well...ground combat. If you wanted to use them for space combat, it would take time and money to facilitate changing them around, but the standard GM was fully usable both for ground combat and space combat without needing any changes, was much cheaper to produce, and still had good enough performance, even if not as high as the Ground Combat Gundam / GM.
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Re: OYW ms development

Post by JEFFPIATT » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:15 am

HalfDemonInuyasha wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:42 am
krullnar wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:40 am
Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:00 pm
The GP series IIRC were developed at Von Braun except the GP03, which was developed at La Vie en Rose. MInd you I haven't watched 0083 in years so I'm going off memory.
That's what i thought which I think gives further credence to the idea of Luna II being a major MS production site for the federation seem silly. Question in regards to the 30 or so RX-79(G) units deployed. From what i gathered they are pre production units which means hand built. They seemed to be quite successful on ground engagements so where the cost of the units to high to continue the line, because I can't seem to find any real successor units.
One major reason is cost, yes, because the Ground Combat Gundam (and the Ground Combat GM) used Luna Titanium Alloy / Gundarium Alpha alloy like the Project V units.

Another major reason is because the Ground Combat Gundams are all made from spare parts of the RX-78 Gundam (basically parts not seen as quite good enough to use for the RX-78 Gundam, but still high performance all the same), so any unit that got too damaged, much less destroyed, simply had nothing to replace and repair them with. This is why, when Shiro Amada's Gundam gets trashed after the 08th MS Team's failed attempt to capture the Apsarus mobile armor in the desert, it had to be practically rebuilt from the ground up, leading to a completely different looking unit (the Ez8) from the others. Karen Joshua's Gundam merely lost its head to an Acguy punch, but even she had to make due with a Ground Combat GM's head for a replacement simply because there was no spare head or parts to make a new one.

And a third major reason is versatility. While the Ground Combat Gundam / GM was successful in their use, they are still limited to...well...ground combat. If you wanted to use them for space combat, it would take time and money to facilitate changing them around, but the standard GM was fully usable both for ground combat and space combat without needing any changes, was much cheaper to produce, and still had good enough performance, even if not as high as the Ground Combat Gundam / GM.
Luna II did have there own Early production GM unit shown in 08th ms team the RGM-79[E] GM Early Type. the Standard RGM-79 was basically a merger of the combat data collected from the RX-78-2, RX-79[G], and the ground and early type GM units. the RGM-79C GM Type C is the standard GM built on Luna II 's lines with minor improvments.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by MythSearcher » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:23 am

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:50 pm
Ah, thank you for the info, so the Galbady B was a Luna II made unit, my bad. Because of the other units being made at Pezun I thought it also would've been part of it.

Kind of weird that a Anaheim made Hizack would have a recon model made at Luna II...

But that model number system doesn't fully make sense, the RMS-179 GM II's number would indicate it was made at Gryps but it is easily found and highly likely to be made anywhere. Same with the RX-110 Gabthley, why would a Titans prototype unit be made at the Federation base Luna II when there are other Titans plants available in space, especially a Scirocco designed unit too?

Maybe because at that time, Titans took over a lot of EFSF sites for development since they have the authority to do so?

And to my understanding, the number system is about the development, not the final production. So the GM II is likely developed in Gryps but produced and modified everywhere.

In AOZ, the T3 team tested the RGM-79CR, which is the model leading to GM II. I can't remember where they report to, but I guess Gryps would be a good guess.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by yazi88 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:42 pm

Good point about Titans authority, I forgot that they mentioned early on in Zeta Gundam that the Federation gave full authority to the Titans, although that only lasted until Dakar where they were mostly ousted by the Federation.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:49 pm

The RGM-79 is stated to be a rushed design, and is even considered an accident-prone machine like the EMS-10 Zudah. While this meant that the standard GM is a flawed design, it did allowed the EF to produce them in large quantities in a short amount of time. Still, the EF had plans for a proper mass produced version of the Gundam, the RX-81 G-Line, but these plans didn't bear fruit until after the end of the OYW. But at that point the relatively peaceful situation (at least before Operation Stardust) led the EF to scrap the plans to mass produce it, and instead use captured Zeon models to fill their ranks while their military focus returned to the gunship concept, resulting in ships like the 0083 Salalmis Kai, Magellan Kai and Birmingham, which omitted MS support capabilities.

About California Base, Mark had theorized that the date of the fall of California Base on December 15th as per Blue Destiny was wrong, and that the date provided by Zeonic Front, December 5th, was more reasonable since the EF supposedly captured the base and began producing units like the RGC-80, which were deployed before the end of the war.

Moving on to the Galbaldy Beta, it was originally designed at the Pezun asteroid under the MS-17B designation along the MS-X units, such as the Act Zaku and its brethren, the Galbadly Alpha. However, at the time it was considered not suitable for combat. When the EF captured Pezun on U.C. 0081, they took for themselves the designs at the base, including the Galbaldy Beta. After the events of Operation Stardust, the EF readopted the MS warfare doctrine, refitting older ships into MS carriers (Salamis Kai from 0087) and producing new ships with better MS support facilities (Alexandria class), while at the same time deciding to develop new mass production units (which would be the GM II and Hizack). But since doing so takes time, the decided to use the Galbaldy Beta as stopgap units while those projects bore fruit. The MS-17B was upgraded with a linear seat cockpit, panoramic monitor and shock absorbers, which made the unit fit for combat and was then relabeled as RMS-117 and mass produced at Luna II. Although it is better than a GM II and about as good as a Hizack, its older and less durable titanium alloy armor frequently leads it to take a secondary seat to contemporary models.

As for the Titans model numbers, these indeed are supposed to reflect the production site where they were built, but in the particular case of the GM II, let's remember that many of them are labeled as RGM-79R, which is meant to indicate that they were upgraded from OYW RGM-79 units. Since the GM was partially replaced by the RGM-79C after the war, the RGM-79R is likely intended as awn improvement to correct some of the flaws of the design while marginally increasing its performance. This update might have been in the works for a while, maybe since the OYW, since by the beginning of the Gryps war on U.C. 0087 even GM II pilots acknowledge that their GM II units have already become obsolete. This would eventually lead to the RGM-86R being a major upgrade all-around in comparison.

As for the RMS-119 Eye Zack, it's worth nothing that the EF also used the Hizack extensively, namely the blue-colored units. In fact the Dgosse Tier used early on an EF MS detachment made up mainly of regular EF forces piloting Galbaldy Betas and blue Hizacks. As such, it's not surprising that facilities such as Luna II would also be used for producing Hizack variants. In fact I've wondered if the RMS-116H Hobby Hizack could have originally been a RMS-116, basically a standard Hizack produced at Luna II.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by yazi88 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:42 pm

Hmm, I've been looking over various OYW GM designs, and noticed only the Sniper Custom and Sniper II were the only GMs that had thrusters in the back of the legs in the OYW, that became the standard during and since the Gryps Conflict for mobile suits in general. Although both of them having that feature makes sense considering one unit was developed from the other.

I also noticed that the Zeta version of the GM II had slots resembling thrusters behind the legs, but the Unicorn version did not... that is weird.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by krullnar » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:40 am

The beam weapon used by the RGM-79(G) sniper that had a continuous beam, other than the barrels destruction its power was on the rather high side I can't think of another case of a weapon similar ever being fielded.
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Re: OYW ms development

Post by domtropen » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:46 pm

Rx-78-4 the G04 Gundam has handheld beam mega launcher and mini reactor to run it equipped on its side waist armor. IIRC In the manga it is very powerful whipping out several ships at once, but in one scenario [it is based on video game] the reactor overload and explode, destroying the Gundam and kill its pilot.

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Re: OYW ms development

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:51 pm

krullnar wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:40 am
The beam weapon used by the RGM-79(G) sniper that had a continuous beam, other than the barrels destruction its power was on the rather high side I can't think of another case of a weapon similar ever being fielded.
Just wanted to point out that such weapon seems to require an external generator, while the backpack seems to serve the function of providing cooling:

http://dalong.net/review/mg/m96/p/m96_b1.jpg

There's plenty of high-power weapons even during the OYW, but ultimately the restrictions for them came down to the available power supply which often required MS to rely on a supplemental and/or external power source, barrel endurance and cooling limitations.

For instance, the anti-ship beam cannon of the Bigro could actually be used by a Zaku II in the form of the Skiure:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Skiure

By 0083, the same weapon became an option for the GP02A, as an improvised beam bazooka:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/RX-78GP02A ... zooka_Type

As an interesting note, the barrel limitation is somewhat overcome during the OYW by replacing them with I-fields, as in the case of many Zeon MAs (such as the Bigro) and some amphibious MS units. The downside is that such method would likely imply an even larger energy demand to power up both the beam weapon itself and the i-field generator.

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