Where will one-off designs end-up?

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False Prophet
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Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by False Prophet » Tue May 02, 2017 10:45 am

So, I was just reading about the Pale Rider DII when I have this idea: Where will most one-off (Gundam), custom, and limited production MS will end up at? I mean, sure, an MS frame could re-used again and again as a test bed for new technology, but I'm talking about MS that have seen combat. There will be a point where maintaining these special machines become too expensive as spare parts become rarer and rarer. And, there is potentially a few mechanic who has actually familiarize themselves with these special machines.

It is canon that the Mk-II, Hyaku Shiki, and Zeta Gundam were stored away after ZZ. So, will the same thing happen with other special units? I expect that unless special cases apply, there won't be any of these machines staying in a museum as they still have some technological classified secrets.

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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue May 02, 2017 11:48 pm

Well... if AE, SNRI, Zeonic, Zimmad, etc. work anything like an automaker or aircraft design firm, they'd probably reclaim the various one-offs and super-prototypes for a structural and systems analysis once the military was done with them.

Any proprietary technology supplied by third parties like the Newtype Labs would probably be stripped out before the unit was returned to the manufacturer, but I'd expect something along the lines of a slow teardown and stress factor analysis that could take months or even years. They'd take them to pieces to see what the wear and tear was like on various high stress parts, study how design changes affected system longevity and maintenance requirements in the field, the effects that battle damage and repairs had on armor and frame integrity, etc. All the lessons learned from that study would end up put to use either as overhauls/retrofits for the current-generation mass production machines and/or be applied in the next-generation designs already in development.

I'd expect that, once they were done with the analysis, at least one unit would probably be rebuilt (possibly restored to its original factory condition) and placed in long-term storage (e.g. a private company museum) until the military retired the mass production models derived from it. At that point, there are three likely outcomes:
  • Permanent decommissioning followed by dismantling the unit for eventual recycling.
  • Returned to military service as a static or moving unmanned target vehicle for live-fire exercises.
  • Combat systems are inerted and/or removed and the unit is sold off to a public museum or collector.
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sat May 06, 2017 3:49 pm

First some quick notes on the Hyaku Shiki and Zeta Gundam:

-The Hyaku Shiki from ZZ is said to be a second unit.
-We know that at least one more identical Zeta Gundam was built for Amuro, and supposedly two minor variants were built for Gray Wolf and Red Snake as seen in Gundam Evolve.

My point is that technically speaking these units saw further production after the rollout of the initial units, therefore I would assume that these could have been reassigned elsewhere or in the case of the damaged Zeta Gundam, at the very least a serve as a source of spare parts for the later units. In both cases, I assume that any remaining units could have ended up as reserves somewhere, much as in the case of the OYW MSV units seen during the Gryps Conflict, the AEUG units at Torrington during the Laplace Conflict or the second Re-GZ unit aboard the Ra Calium.

A few more outcomes, aside from being sent to museums or the scrapyard, would involve such units being given (or have been taken away) as in the case of the ZZ which Judau took with him to Jupiter or the ZII unit piloted by a former EF mercenary during the events of Missing Link (Side Stories PS3 game) taking place on UC 0091. There's also cases such as the Byarlant Custom, in which the remaining base units were used as testbeds.

Incidentally, the Mk II, from which 3 units were roll-out at once, is the one unit that I could imagine most likely to be sent to a museum or to the scrapyard. I imagine that the other two units could have ended mostly as spare parts for the Argama's units over the course of the Gryps Conflict and 1st Neo Zeon War, specially after Kamille moved on to the Zeta Gundam. Also, essentially it remained a test unit and it was not to see mass production until further testing and the new armor material were implemented on the design.

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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by False Prophet » Sat May 06, 2017 11:02 pm

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 3:49 pm
First some quick notes on the Hyaku Shiki and Zeta Gundam:

-The Hyaku Shiki from ZZ is said to be a second unit.
-We know that at least one more identical Zeta Gundam was built for Amuro, and supposedly two minor variants were built for Gray Wolf and Red Snake as seen in Gundam Evolve.

My point is that technically speaking these units saw further production after the rollout of the initial units, therefore I would assume that these could have been reassigned elsewhere or in the case of the damaged Zeta Gundam, at the very least a serve as a source of spare parts for the later units. In both cases, I assume that any remaining units could have ended up as reserves somewhere, much as in the case of the OYW MSV units seen during the Gryps Conflict, the AEUG units at Torrington during the Laplace Conflict or the second Re-GZ unit aboard the Ra Calium.

A few more outcomes, aside from being sent to museums or the scrapyard, would involve such units being given (or have been taken away) as in the case of the ZZ which Judau took with him to Jupiter or the ZII unit piloted by a former EF mercenary during the events of Missing Link (Side Stories PS3 game) taking place on UC 0091. There's also cases such as the Byarlant Custom, in which the remaining base units were used as testbeds.

Incidentally, the Mk II, from which 3 units were roll-out at once, is the one unit that I could imagine most likely to be sent to a museum or to the scrapyard. I imagine that the other two units could have ended mostly as spare parts for the Argama's units over the course of the Gryps Conflict and 1st Neo Zeon War, specially after Kamille moved on to the Zeta Gundam. Also, essentially it remained a test unit and it was not to see mass production until further testing and the new armor material were implemented on the design.
Cannibalized unit for spare part is not an unheard real-life practice (and isn't the Mk-II thing is canonized?)

Thinking about real-life, I suddenly have this idea: Many armament company actually doesn't produce anything. They just buy old vehicles, guns, etc for the part then sell these to different customers, including armies whose equipment has not changed. So could it be possible that Anaheim Electronic, in addition to their refurbishing service (which include upgrading MS, like the GM II to the GM III), has a buyback program for old MS?

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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Mon May 08, 2017 6:42 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 3:49 pm
First some quick notes on the Hyaku Shiki and Zeta Gundam:

-The Hyaku Shiki from ZZ is said to be a second unit.
-We know that at least one more identical Zeta Gundam was built for Amuro, and supposedly two minor variants were built for Gray Wolf and Red Snake as seen in Gundam Evolve.

My point is that technically speaking these units saw further production after the rollout of the initial units, therefore I would assume that these could have been reassigned elsewhere or in the case of the damaged Zeta Gundam, at the very least a serve as a source of spare parts for the later units. In both cases, I assume that any remaining units could have ended up as reserves somewhere, much as in the case of the OYW MSV units seen during the Gryps Conflict, the AEUG units at Torrington during the Laplace Conflict or the second Re-GZ unit aboard the Ra Calium.

A few more outcomes, aside from being sent to museums or the scrapyard, would involve such units being given (or have been taken away) as in the case of the ZZ which Judau took with him to Jupiter or the ZII unit piloted by a former EF mercenary during the events of Missing Link (Side Stories PS3 game) taking place on UC 0091. There's also cases such as the Byarlant Custom, in which the remaining base units were used as testbeds.

Incidentally, the Mk II, from which 3 units were roll-out at once, is the one unit that I could imagine most likely to be sent to a museum or to the scrapyard. I imagine that the other two units could have ended mostly as spare parts for the Argama's units over the course of the Gryps Conflict and 1st Neo Zeon War, specially after Kamille moved on to the Zeta Gundam. Also, essentially it remained a test unit and it was not to see mass production until further testing and the new armor material were implemented on the design.
i believe with the 3 mk II gundams once the AEUG got them unit 3 stayed with the Argama as a combat unit repainted in more normal Gundam colors as propaganda unit. the other two went to AE one being used for testing and reverse engineering and one was used for parts until AE could build comparable parts. by ZZ the Argama received an rebuilt MK II left open if it was unit 03 or one of the ones sent to AE. Because of thisthe MK II equiptment has two model numbers for each piece of equipment one from the EFF factory and a AE knockoff part code.

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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon May 08, 2017 11:46 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 11:02 pm
Thinking about real-life, I suddenly have this idea: Many armament company actually doesn't produce anything. They just buy old vehicles, guns, etc for the part then sell these to different customers, including armies whose equipment has not changed. So could it be possible that Anaheim Electronic, in addition to their refurbishing service (which include upgrading MS, like the GM II to the GM III), has a buyback program for old MS?
Granted, but that works so well in the real world because there are 195 countries on this planet all looking to keep up their own defenses either as part of a larger power bloc (officially or unofficially) or independently to safeguard their political ideology, borders, etc.

The various forms of the Earth Federation in Gundam typically seek to either greatly diminish the power of the national military forces, or outright abolish them, in favor of maintaining the supranational Earth Federation Forces.

Outside of stories where the Earth Federation has either been wiped out entirely (e.g. Gundam X), not formed yet (e.g. Gundam 00), or is useless and/or evil (e.g. Gundam Wing, Iron-Blooded Orphans), there's usually a certain wariness the Federation exhibits when a regional power starts building up a military of its own. It usually means Space Fascists are about to pop up, give a rambling speech about manifest destiny, and start killing a LOT of people.

The only Universal Century story I can recall where they show a situation where there are significant military forces employed by someone other than the Earth Federation, Earth Federation-but-not-Evil-Earth-Federation, or the Space Fascists du jour was Mobile Suit Gundam: Thunderbolt's manga. That had the South Seas Alliance, being one of the local power blocs in the EF, building up a military of its own after it was taken over by a creepy cult with designs of world domination thanks to the Psyco Zaku. (Clearly they're not genre savvy enough to know that making your bid for world domination based on a monoeye MS is practically a suicide note.)
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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by JEFFPIATT » Tue May 09, 2017 9:26 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 11:46 am
False Prophet wrote:
Sat May 06, 2017 11:02 pm
Thinking about real-life, I suddenly have this idea: Many armament company actually doesn't produce anything. They just buy old vehicles, guns, etc for the part then sell these to different customers, including armies whose equipment has not changed. So could it be possible that Anaheim Electronic, in addition to their refurbishing service (which include upgrading MS, like the GM II to the GM III), has a buyback program for old MS?
Granted, but that works so well in the real world because there are 195 countries on this planet all looking to keep up their own defenses either as part of a larger power bloc (officially or unofficially) or independently to safeguard their political ideology, borders, etc.

The various forms of the Earth Federation in Gundam typically seek to either greatly diminish the power of the national military forces, or outright abolish them, in favor of maintaining the supranational Earth Federation Forces.

Outside of stories where the Earth Federation has either been wiped out entirely (e.g. Gundam X), not formed yet (e.g. Gundam 00), or is useless and/or evil (e.g. Gundam Wing, Iron-Blooded Orphans), there's usually a certain wariness the Federation exhibits when a regional power starts building up a military of its own. It usually means Space Fascists are about to pop up, give a rambling speech about manifest destiny, and start killing a LOT of people.

The only Universal Century story I can recall where they show a situation where there are significant military forces employed by someone other than the Earth Federation, Earth Federation-but-not-Evil-Earth-Federation, or the Space Fascists du jour was Mobile Suit Gundam: Thunderbolt's manga. That had the South Seas Alliance, being one of the local power blocs in the EF, building up a military of its own after it was taken over by a creepy cult with designs of world domination thanks to the Psyco Zaku. (Clearly they're not genre savvy enough to know that making your bid for world domination based on a monoeye MS is practically a suicide note.)
By Victory Gundam we see old surplus EFSF units used by a Colony Military the Macedonia Army deploys RGM-109M-5 Heavy-Gun units as part of it's forces. http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/v/rgm-109m-5.htm

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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by Seto Kaiba » Wed May 10, 2017 12:19 pm

JEFFPIATT wrote:
Tue May 09, 2017 9:26 am
By Victory Gundam we see old surplus EFSF units used by a Colony Military the Macedonia Army deploys RGM-109M-5 Heavy-Gun units as part of it's forces. http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/v/rgm-109m-5.htm
Given the established state of the Earth Federation in Mobile Suit Victory Gundam, that'd tend to fall under that rather broad header of "times when the Earth Federation was stupid and/or evil". It's usually EFF all the way as far as Earth's military forces go, unless it's one of those periods where the Federation's influence is on the decline (e.g. as in Gundam Thunderbolt's postwar arc, Gundam ZZ, Victory Gundam). Usually when they hit the peak of their influence they're presented as being effectively the only real military in the Earth Sphere, and usually grab a Villain Ball shortly thereafter (e.g. Hathaway's Flash, Zeta Gundam).
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Re: Where will one-off designs end-up?

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed May 17, 2017 11:54 pm

JEFFPIATT wrote:
Mon May 08, 2017 6:42 am
i believe with the 3 mk II gundams once the AEUG got them unit 3 stayed with the Argama as a combat unit repainted in more normal Gundam colors as propaganda unit. the other two went to AE one being used for testing and reverse engineering and one was used for parts until AE could build comparable parts. by ZZ the Argama received an rebuilt MK II left open if it was unit 03 or one of the ones sent to AE. Because of this the MK II equiptment has two model numbers for each piece of equipment one from the EFF factory and a AE knockoff part code.
I recall that AE indeed produced their own versions of the Mk II weapons, though I'm not quite sure if that included actual parts of the MS itself. Anyway, AFAIK it has always been mentioned that the Mk II in ZZ is the repaired unit retrieved at the end MGSZ.

I do can imagine that there could be speculation that the La Vie En Rose brought a new unit since we see the Mk II again after the Argama docks for repairs. However, since the Radish had become the mothership of the Mk II at the end of the Gryps Conflict, it's not difficult to assume that the RX-178 remained unrepaired simply due to a lack of parts for doing so, at least until La Vie En Rose arrived. In the same episode we also see how a Nemo is being repaired and at one point we also see what looks like a poorly drawn Nemo (but with the right color scheme) moving outside the ships, so its fair to assume that many of the Argama's MS weren't repaired until the Argama was resupplied.

On the other hand, I can't find a source that confirms that the Mk II and Zeta were retrieved and repaired after the 1st Neo Zeon War. I realize it's possible since the EF did captured Axis, but proper confirmation would be appreciated.

However, the issue of the Mk II being outdated since mid-Gryps Conflict remains, which again makes the prospect of repairing and putting it back into service after the Haman's war questionable at best.

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