Pilot curriculum

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Dark Duel
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:52 pm

That's an interesting question. I mean, distances, height, etc...those things are absolute in and of themselves. But someone who has spent their entire life in space and in a colony, who has never experienced Earth, will in all likelihood have a different viewpoint on how those things affect and play into combat.
In particular, the gravity on Earth is going to be a rough one to deal with. Because there is no gravity in space, while inside of a colony, the further away you move from the ground, the less affected by gravity you are.
On Earth, however, gravity is constant, and I think adjusting to that is gonna throw any Spacenoid pilot for a loop. Or at least, it should.
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:16 am

False Prophet wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:11 pm
Say, would a MS pilot who was born and brought up inside a colony for his entire life would have a different perspective on height and distance than someone raised on Earth? I mean, it has been shown many times that colonists can just raised their heads to clearly see the buildings which are built on the opposite side of their place in the colony. It means that the curvature of a colony is very discernible.
I'd expect the difference in perspective wouldn't be so much in terms of height or distance, but in viewing the subject of spatial orientation (esp. in terms of "up" or "down") more subjectively than someone raised on Earth where a natural gravity well enforces an agreed-upon value of "down" that holds true for the entire population.
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DoleBananas
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by DoleBananas » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:37 pm

Would it? It seems to me that most spacenoids would still be bound by (simulated) gravity unless their occupation demanded it. Most people probably do not need to work at the space docks, and it's definitely a small portion of the population that are say, crewing ships or launches or what have you.

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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:22 pm

DoleBananas wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:37 pm
Would it? It seems to me that most spacenoids would still be bound by (simulated) gravity unless their occupation demanded it. Most people probably do not need to work at the space docks, and it's definitely a small portion of the population that are say, crewing ships or launches or what have you.
I dunno about that, there are plenty of places in the colony itself that have minimal or no "gravity". If they've ever taken any kind of trip, for business or pleasure, to another colony or have any business that sends them to the port then they have to adjust to moving from simulated 1G to fractional and 0G environments a lot. The people employed in actually maintaining the colony inside and out are going to have a LOT of experience like that, as well as those who have jobs which entail operating in space like junk collectors. That subset of the population seems to be reasonably large, or at least disproportionately prominent in Gundam.
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by DoleBananas » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:27 am

There is only one place, which is the central section of the colony, and it's not a living space for exactly that reason. It's also not really a place where one would normally spend a part of their developing years without a good reason. That, itself, boils down pretty quickly to occupation, and to have spent enough time taking leisure trips to be more than vaguely comfortable with a lack of orientation, is a little improbable.

John Doe, born on Colony XYZ, doesn't have any inherent advantages over anyone else, born on Earth or otherwise. Joe Schmoe on the other hand, Colony XYZ dock worker, maintenance guy, or whatever does. Not by nature of where he was born (though living his life on Earth would preclude the opportunity for EVA) does one get to escape the human condition of a universal upwards and downwards orientation, there has to be other factors considered in order to create those results.

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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:55 am

The specific question I have regarding the issue(and which FP was asking about) pertains exclusively to pilots who have been trained in and have experience piloting which is exclusively limited to space and space colonies- which I would imagine falls into to the latter category.
Piloting a mobile suit inside of a colony in particular - because while there might not be any notable difference in ground combat, as soon as a mobile suit gets a decent distance off the ground inside a colony, the nearer it gets to the center, the less it's affected by the colony's artificial gravity.
But on Earth, that isn't the case.
And of course there's no gravity at all outside the colony.
That's my main reason for thinking that a pilot whose experience is exclusively limited to piloting in space and in/around colonies would quite likely have, at least initially, some difficulties adjusting to the different conditions of combat on Earth.
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DoleBananas
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by DoleBananas » Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:05 pm

Ehhh.
False Prophet wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:11 pm
Say, would a MS pilot who was born and brought up inside a colony for his entire life would have a different perspective on height and distance than someone raised on Earth?
The way that is written has the question as less to do with training, more to do the circumstances of their life prior to training and whether or not it would confer advantages to adapting to a space environment in training and/or the real deal. Sorry, I guess.

I don't want to tackle the colony physics stuff, though. :( Someone could probably explain things better than me, but they don't work the way you think they do. Pretty quickly, it comes down to, there's a reason why Zeon only sends special forces units into colonies that its relatively interested in keeping intact.

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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by Zeonista » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:13 pm

An issue I think is being ignored in this discussion is human adaptation. No surprise, the gearhead element must represent! But I want to address the issue of the human component that this theoretical curriculum is supposedly addressing. Part of this is the anthropomorphic frame, natch. But the key part is the pilot him/her self here. There is a reason why the average mecha hero looks barely old enough to shave... We have all been sitting around talking about the difficulty of piloting a mecha suit because no one has done it yet. It is a new and semi-magical tech that is useful but difficult to use! Guess what? That attitude I described above my grandparents had towards VCRs and first-generation desktop PCs. I showed Mom how to call up her browser & check her e-mail. The younger generation of the family raised in the cornfields of northern Ohio has shown their Uncle Zeo how to use a tablet as a basic hi-tech lifeline, and then not even yet in high school.

My point here is that a "younger generation" that learns to pilot the new mecha suits of whatever kind will not sit there and say "how does this thing move effectively", they will just do it. They will pass the training course, drive the mecha suit around the block, push it to its limits, turn it over to the equally young wrench gang for maintenance, then get to work on ideas for the really good version. And if their elders are truly wise, they will give heed to what the young folks are telling them about the new wonder weapon, or wonder construction labor, or wonder exploration bot. And this is just for mecha anime that bother to have a training course. It is generally assumed that any capable mecha anime hero has the technical savvy and interest to self-learn on the job. There is a certain mindset that is required, but if it is present, then we are off to the mecha suit races!

That, folks, is the story of mechanical development since Fulton raised steam for the first time. It is baked into the history of the sudden surge of technological development, which seemingly redoubles on itself every generation, to the point of not being considered noteworthy in 2017 CE. Steamboats, automobiles, aircraft, computers, cell phones, "the song remains the same". There is an inherent appeal to mecha suits that makes their genre of anime an instant matter of interest, right? That appeal exists in-story, just about every time, and is always a sympathetic force in the hero's development. Turn some young pilots and mechanics and programmers loose on the first mecha suits in any given universe, and they will rapidly create the mecha suit army that can defend all of Known Humanity....or tear it down.
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Re: Pilot curriculum

Post by MythSearcher » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:19 am

Dark Duel wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:55 am
The specific question I have regarding the issue(and which FP was asking about) pertains exclusively to pilots who have been trained in and have experience piloting which is exclusively limited to space and space colonies- which I would imagine falls into to the latter category.
Piloting a mobile suit inside of a colony in particular - because while there might not be any notable difference in ground combat, as soon as a mobile suit gets a decent distance off the ground inside a colony, the nearer it gets to the center, the less it's affected by the colony's artificial gravity.
But on Earth, that isn't the case.
And of course there's no gravity at all outside the colony.
That's my main reason for thinking that a pilot whose experience is exclusively limited to piloting in space and in/around colonies would quite likely have, at least initially, some difficulties adjusting to the different conditions of combat on Earth.
I like how in Gihren's assassination Attempt, they had modified projectile programs on the ground combat MSs to over come the difference of ground and colony gravity.

The main difference is that the colony's artificial gravity is generated by spinning, at a speed of about 167.55m/s. So you only need to accelerate to 167.55m/s (about 603km/h) against the spinning direction, or get close to that, you can technically ignore the artificial gravity, the only difficulty the pilot will face will be everything on the colony wall will ram towards him/her at 167.55m/s so should be pretty hard to maintain if close to the ground. But since buildings in colonies are mostly only a few stories high, MSs might be pretty safe at the height of 10~20m (3~6 stories), which is only at the head level of another MS.

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