The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SonicSP » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:12 am

domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:29 am
Bael's swords were breakable after all - proves they are just extremely durable
About this, I remember discussing elsewhere that one of Bael's original swords got displaced during the first fight with Kimaris Vidar. If McGillis replaced it with an inferior replica later on in the weeks/months that followed, there's a chance it might be less durable.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by domino » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:34 pm

SonicSP wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:12 am
domino wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:29 am
Bael's swords were breakable after all - proves they are just extremely durable
About this, I remember discussing elsewhere that one of Bael's original swords got displaced during the first fight with Kimaris Vidar. If McGillis replaced it with an inferior replica later on in the weeks/months that followed, there's a chance it might be less durable.
I'm not sure what you're referring to that Bael discarded one of its swords

Nonetheless, when rewatching, Bael's swords break when 1) he's blocking the long range attacks from Kimaris Vidar with the blade (very stupid) and then while he and Kimaris Vidar are parrying blows just after he is rammed back into the ship. Kimaris' blade also seems to break at the same time that Bael's sword breaks

Just goes to show that Kimaris overpowered and outgunned Bael.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:41 pm

But Kimaris also took a lot of damage in the end too, it was a battle of attrition, it did have the Bael outgunned but also lost some weapons in the end.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SNT1 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:25 pm

domino wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:34 pm
I'm not sure what you're referring to that Bael discarded one of its swords
Bael lost one of its blades in its first fight against KV
Just goes to show that Kimaris overpowered and outgunned Bael.
Despite the KV likely being designed to pretty much counter everything the Bael had (which wasn't much), McGillis was handily winning before Ein overclocked, and even had a chance to end it with a cockpit stab early on (as with McGillis it must miss at all times). "Overpowered and outgunned" is such a hyperbole that taken out of context you would think that Gaelio made McGillis his bitch in this fight.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by domino » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:37 am

True. At first it did seem that McGillis was winning. Afterall, he was slowly picking apart Kimaris Vidar even after Gaelio told Ein to take over. It seems that things changed when Ein went into overdrive and started to rush/ram Bael into the ship.
Ein may have gone into overdrive after he was sufficiently "injured" by the cockpit stab. We see a lot of fluid in the cockpit which was probably from Ein and not Gaelio (we see no injuries on Gaelio). There are also a lot of close-ups on "Ein" during the clashing by the ship's exterior which also showed sparks - indicating extreme activity.
It's possible that "Ein" died in the end which is why Gaelio was touching the console so thoughfully.

I think McGillis didn't expect Gaelio to fight so viciously and was less composed for the fight than he should have been - what with his ranting and all. Ein's rage overpowered Bael in the end.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk IV

Post by hitokirigarou » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:31 pm

yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:52 am
I'm not sure if it a railgun or not.
If I remember right, the info (long distance flight backpack unit equipped with railgun) is from Hobby Japan. Probably the 2017-05 issue.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk IV

Post by yazi88 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:59 pm

hitokirigarou wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:31 pm
yazi88 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:52 am
I'm not sure if it a railgun or not.
If I remember right, the info (long distance flight backpack unit equipped with railgun) is from Hobby Japan. Probably the 2017-05 issue.
Did it now? Thank you, cause I haven't seen any kit info or any info about the optional booster form w/weapons of the Full City.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by AmuroNT1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:46 am

Yeah, that's the reference that the Japanese Wiki cites regards to the railgun.

Also, it seems they're going to release a model of the Dantelion from Tri-Age, meaning we'll finally get hard stats for this elusive SOB.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Calubin_175 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:32 am

Someone needs to do an onscreen count of all the Grazes Galljarhorn lost on that final battle.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by yazi88 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:37 am

Well... now we got a extra reason to see why Dainsleffs were banned... those things are EXTREMELY long range. Hitting from space onto the surface.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by PowerdGNFlag » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:49 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:37 am
Well... now we got a extra reason to see why Dainsleffs were banned... those things are EXTREMELY long range. Hitting from space onto the surface.
It's not like orbital bombardment with mostly-inert rods for massive damage on the surface is an entirely new thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

But having them launched from orbit via railgun is definitely another thing.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Arsarcana » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:10 pm

Yeah, the range isn't terribly impressive on its own because it's Mars' gravity that's doing most of the work. Hitting so accurately with them is an impressive technical feat but aside from the nature of the projectile it's fundamentally no different from that Gundam staple, the colony drop.

Also, I take back anything negative I might have ever said or thought about the Full City's hedge clippers of doom. They may still be hilariously impractical but after the last episode, I just don't mind that so much any more.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Amion » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:44 pm

They're basically mobile cockpit guillotines. I can only imagine what a Zanscare soldier would think of seeing them at work. Each time they were used it was for revenge. Most times.

And on a note about Bael, I've watched that fight twice over, and McGillis DOES discard one of his swords before charging the Kimaris Vidar, for no apparent reason that I can tell, at least.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by The Green Flame » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:59 pm

It was broken in half when he blocked shots early on (which I barely caught because I had to slow the frames down)

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SNT1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:07 pm

Finale (and the last 6 eps, really) makes you wonder if there was really any need to advancing AV tech, or Gundam frames, or any other MS when they show us that the best resolution for any problem is to Dainsleif the hell out of it.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by domino » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:33 pm

I think the show mentioned that tech has advanced substantially since the Calamity War with many MS designs learning from the Gundam frames. I somehow doubt that MS could use Dainsleif back then as well as the Gundams could against the mobile armours. Keep in mind that even the special forces were rendered immobile when using the Dainsleif and needed support crew to reload. They definitely wouldn't have stood a chance against the MA

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Dark Duel » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:53 pm

One other thing you have to remember as well is that Gjallarhorn outlawed the use of the Dáinsleif following the end of the Calamity War. I would guess that until Idiok's forces used it against the Turbines, a Dáinsleif had not been fired in over three hundred years*
(*Technically, there's the example of Flauros, but as Flauros used conventional ammunition in its cannons until its very last sortie, it actually doesn't violate the ban until shortly prior to its destruction, after the Arianrhod fleet has already deployed Dáinsleif of their own several times)

Also, if "Dáinsleif the crap out of it" were a legal strategy, Rustal would not have had to sneak one of his own men into McGillis's forces with one to make it look like McGillis violated the ban first. Mind you, it's still illegal regardless of who fires it first, but Rustal has never at any point cared about that.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by SonicSP » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:29 pm

SNT1 wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:07 pm
Finale (and the last 6 eps, really) makes you wonder if there was really any need to advancing AV tech, or Gundam frames, or any other MS when they show us that the best resolution for any problem is to Dainsleif the hell out of it.
My theory is that the there's a limited amount of materials during the war to use on the Deinsleifs. They do require that "rare" metal after all which is also needed to make mobile suits.

The IBO world have had peace for most of the 300 years, with mobile suit production (which uses the same materials) being very limited as they were are only done by Gjallahorn and nobody else. Considering the banned status of the weapons and peacetime, that leaves them a considerable amount of time to slowly to build a stockpile.

With McGillis "using" it, Rustal had the excuse to go weapons free on these normally unusable assets, so he doesn't have to worry much about depleting that stockpile for future use since it's not going to be allowed to be used most of the time anyways. Things were likely far tighter during the war with no time for huge stockpile buildups.

There were also "countless mobile armors" (from the HG Hashmal) back during the war and considering they rebelled, they must have caused a significant disruption in society. This was a society that relied a lot on AI and automation, to have that turn on you means they have discard whatever AIs they had left out of fear to avoid a repeat.

The Deinsleifs also took time to aim and mobile armor like Hashmal looked to be pretty fast. The orbital bombardment type attack as used in the last episode would likely only work if they were pinned down in one location like Tekkadan was.

The Deinsleifs are also fairly comparable with the Gundam Frames and AV, as we can see from the Kimaris Vidar mini-Deinsleifs loadout. AV tech will greatly help aiming and reaction time since normal human senses are nowhere near the match of the AI, and the Gundam Frames' high reactor output can directly be placed towards damage output even further.

They were definitely one of the weapons used in the war. The humans were in a stalemate againts the mobile armors prior to the Gundam Frames showing up and turned the tide in their favor, very likely one of the reasons they were able to stay in that position instead was because of the Deinsleifs and later the Gundams may have had setups similar to Kimaris Vidar to help win the war.

Hell it wouldn't surprised me if all of the Seven Stars had a similar combo, that's one of the discenerable reasons they could beat so many mobile armors. Go within shooting range, evade using your reaction time, shoot to cause good damage and and then use melee to finish off any remainders.
domino wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:33 pm
I think the show mentioned that tech has advanced substantially since the Calamity War with many MS designs learning from the Gundam frames.
From what I've been reading, it's usually the opposite. The technology as a result the war has substantially degraded with many examples being lost including the Grimgerde' Valkyria Blade material, Gundam Frames, Asteroth's Gamma Nanolaminate Sword. That has also been noted about the general technology level of civilization as a whole. Even things like the Ariadne communication network are lost technology, they just maintain what's left so they could use it.

It's not been noted anywhere from any sources that I can recall any of the new mobile suits learn from the Gundam Frames. Rather, they (Gjallahorn) took the Valkyrie Frame as a base and evolved it from there since the Gundam Frames were hard to maintain and were extremely hard to make even during the advanced technology time of the past. Some areas likely have improved since all that time but many glory technology of the past were indeed lost with no equivalent or better replacements.

It's a possibility that they did learn something but it's not been stated yet to my knowledge.
Last edited by SonicSP on Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by zetatype » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:40 am

yazi88 wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:37 am
Well... now we got a extra reason to see why Dainsleffs were banned... those things are EXTREMELY long range. Hitting from space onto the surface.
That's actually gravity doing most of the work. Hell they could have just dropped them rather than fire them into Mars' gravity and it would pretty much have the same effect.

That being said it's still a good reason why Ghorn would have banned them in the first place. It's a weapon that does not really benefit Ghorn but could be really useful to space pirates or insurgent groups.

When you think about it, Ghorn can easily crush it's enemies by simply outnumbering and overwhelming them and therefore making weapons like the Dainsleffs overkill and unnecessary. However, it would be very useful to smaller and weaker groups since it allows them to indirectly engage Ghorn and therefore making numbers less of an issue.

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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk III

Post by Calubin_175 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:53 am

Let's say GHorn deployed <100 Grazes in total on Mars, they ended up with less than 20 by the end of the battle.

Of the 100 Grazes, I would presume that the elite Arianrhod Shild Types got depleted first and then they were reinforced by the regular Mars Branch ones.

I assume that Julietta was probably just accompanied by another 6 or so Shild types, while the rest belonged to Iok's group.

I need to rewatch it from the Bael Mars encounter to see how many they really deployed. I think Bael killed less than 10, and the Shidens killed less than 12. Mika and Guts killed about 20 in the last episode.

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