A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

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A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:30 pm

I was checking in the gundam wikia the article about A Baoa Qu and saw this image:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 1214225401

If I'm not mistaken, it's form the last Unicorn OVA. The interesting part is that you can actually see the shadows of some MS standing inside the Dolos catapult. At first I thought it was interesting seeing that MS might actually be able to launch standing from these catapults, however I alter realized that in order for that to be the case, the Dolos would need to be taller than its official height of 123.7m. I assume that the Dolls would need to be closer to the 150m (perhaps a bit higher depending on whether the long protuberances count towards its height) in order for its catapults to be high enough to fit standing MS, perhaps even higher if we are to assume that the taller machines like the Gelgoog (19.2m tall) can fit standing as well while still having some ceiling clearance for moving inside. Then there's EiS (PS2), which IIRC had one mission showing a Big (23.6m tall) launching from a Dolos, but that might be pushing things too far.

On the other hand, it's also noticeable how the central catapult seem to be wide enough to launch two MS side by side. I'm not certain if they are wide enough for a Big though. However, the catapults paired on the same row don't seem to have enough room to have MS standing on the inner side, due to the top most and middle catapult occupying some space respectively. Perhaps these catapults are used for fights or other minor craft?

I also made this topic to ask about the large engine-like block on the side of the Dolos, which despite looking like a similar setup to that of the Musai, don't actually have thrusters: the ships 5 main thrusters are all located on the main body of the ship. I would like to assume that they are the engines placed outside the main body of the ship, so in case they re destroyed they don't take the whole ship with them (the 0081 OVA might be a nod in this direction, given that the Invisible Knights take refugee on a destroyed Dolos after their brief encounter with the Gundam). In such case, that might actually clear up quite a bit of space within the ship's main body for MS hangers and supplies storage.

I guess they could also be some sort of cooling system, due to their huge vent-like openings.

Anyway, assuming they are indeed the ships main engines, I do wonder if the ship might be able remain operational if only one gets destroyed, even if in a limited capacity (maybe no longer able to fire, but at least able to move around).

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by Deacon Blues » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:16 pm

Well, there's a couple manga offshoots that you have to consider as well:

Gundam the Origin shows it beinging in Kycillia's Chibe (or whatever it was) and it crashes bringing it down. Gundam Thunderbolt refits it underwater to act as a submarine dock.

In either case, those hangers have to be quite tall... but it does appear that the one from Thunderbolt appears to be a different type. I'm inclined to think there may be different sizes of ships, in all honesty.

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by MythSearcher » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:01 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:I was checking in the gundam wikia the article about A Baoa Qu and saw this image:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 1214225401

If I'm not mistaken, it's form the last Unicorn OVA. The interesting part is that you can actually see the shadows of some MS standing inside the Dolos catapult. At first I thought it was interesting seeing that MS might actually be able to launch standing from these catapults, however I alter realized that in order for that to be the case, the Dolos would need to be taller than its official height of 123.7m. I assume that the Dolls would need to be closer to the 150m (perhaps a bit higher depending on whether the long protuberances count towards its height) in order for its catapults to be high enough to fit standing MS, perhaps even higher if we are to assume that the taller machines like the Gelgoog (19.2m tall) can fit standing as well while still having some ceiling clearance for moving inside. Then there's EiS (PS2), which IIRC had one mission showing a Big (23.6m tall) launching from a Dolos, but that might be pushing things too far.

On the other hand, it's also noticeable how the central catapult seem to be wide enough to launch two MS side by side. I'm not certain if they are wide enough for a Big though. However, the catapults paired on the same row don't seem to have enough room to have MS standing on the inner side, due to the top most and middle catapult occupying some space respectively. Perhaps these catapults are used for fights or other minor craft?

I also made this topic to ask about the large engine-like block on the side of the Dolos, which despite looking like a similar setup to that of the Musai, don't actually have thrusters: the ships 5 main thrusters are all located on the main body of the ship. I would like to assume that they are the engines placed outside the main body of the ship, so in case they re destroyed they don't take the whole ship with them (the 0081 OVA might be a nod in this direction, given that the Invisible Knights take refugee on a destroyed Dolos after their brief encounter with the Gundam). In such case, that might actually clear up quite a bit of space within the ship's main body for MS hangers and supplies storage.

I guess they could also be some sort of cooling system, due to their huge vent-like openings.

Anyway, assuming they are indeed the ships main engines, I do wonder if the ship might be able remain operational if only one gets destroyed, even if in a limited capacity (maybe no longer able to fire, but at least able to move around).
I'd make this assumption: The MS may be a little bit slanted and not completely upright.
123.7/160 ~= 77%
Meaning a slant of about 40 degrees. The 19.2m Gelgoog will be less than 15m that way, but still look like its standing.
The original setting picture the openings are pretty slanted as well, I'd be happy to say that they are about 40 degrees

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by toysdream » Wed Jan 25, 2017 12:15 pm

Generally, Zeon's One Year War-era ships tended to launch mobile suits horizontally - i.e. the Musai, Papua, and the Graf Zeppelin from Gundam 0080. I recall in Gundam UC the Garencieres crew even make fun of the Nahel Argama for storing its mobile suits standing up, which is an odd attitude for Neo Zeon veterans.

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:00 pm

Well, the Origin and Thunderbolt both seem to think of the Dolos class as a giant mobile fortress, with the former housing Musais and the later Jukon class submarines. Needless to say, this would be on a completely different league from the 492m long MS carrier we know, with The Origin version said to be as big as 7000m long:

https://i.imgur.com/kUZn9BI.jpg

While in recent years the original Dolos capacity to carry 182 MS has been put into question, with newer more conservative standards now claiming that it can carry 100 or just over 100 MS, a 7km long ship could easily carry over 10 times as many. I don't know if there is any mention out there of how many Musais or Yukons could one of those giant Dolos carry though.

The problem with assuming that the MS is titled in the image I referenced is that the MS seems to be standing upright in the very order of the catapult. If it was moving along the catapult instead, it should look a bit inclined diagonally in order to be aligned with the rest of the catapult. Personally I wouldn't mind the Dolos being slightly bigger if it would mean that ti could carry 180+ MS as per the original info, plus budging its length just past the half kilometer milestone. Besides, in recent years we have seen how MS Igloo has retconned the length of a few ships such as the Papua and Chivvay either way.

As for the Zeon standard MS hangar arrangement and launching position, I think it's actually a mixed bag:

-In the original TV series we see MS launching standing from Musais, Chivvays and Gwazines.

-In Gundam Thunderbolt and 0080 MS seem to launch lying down from Chivvay/Tivvay class ships, and the hangars of the MS Igloo and 0083 Musais hold their MS in horizontal position.

-The Zanzibar Kai and Gwazine from 0083 do seem to hold their MS vertically, and so seems to be the case of the Musai from 0080 based on its lineart depicting a launching Zaku II.

Regarding the comments of the Garencieres crew, I think it makes little sense given that during Haman's Neo Zeon ships like the Endra and Sadalahn held their MS vertically in order to operate on Earth. On the other hand, the Musaka class do would be a prime example of using the lack lack of gravity in your favor for the positioning of the MS hangar and catapults. I guess it ultimately depends on what ships did the Garencieres crew operated before to determine if their comment is in order or not.

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:37 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:00 pm
Well, the Origin and Thunderbolt both seem to think of the Dolos class as a giant mobile fortress, with the former housing Musais and the later Jukon class submarines. Needless to say, this would be on a completely different league from the 492m long MS carrier we know, with The Origin version said to be as big as 7000m long:

https://i.imgur.com/kUZn9BI.jpg

While in recent years the original Dolos capacity to carry 182 MS has been put into question, with newer more conservative standards now claiming that it can carry 100 or just over 100 MS, a 7km long ship could easily carry over 10 times as many. I don't know if there is any mention out there of how many Musais or Yukons could one of those giant Dolos carry though.

The problem with assuming that the MS is titled in the image I referenced is that the MS seems to be standing upright in the very order of the catapult. If it was moving along the catapult instead, it should look a bit inclined diagonally in order to be aligned with the rest of the catapult. Personally I wouldn't mind the Dolos being slightly bigger if it would mean that ti could carry 180+ MS as per the original info, plus budging its length just past the half kilometer milestone. Besides, in recent years we have seen how MS Igloo has retconned the length of a few ships such as the Papua and Chivvay either way.

As for the Zeon standard MS hangar arrangement and launching position, I think it's actually a mixed bag:

-In the original TV series we see MS launching standing from Musais, Chivvays and Gwazines.

-In Gundam Thunderbolt and 0080 MS seem to launch lying down from Chivvay/Tivvay class ships, and the hangars of the MS Igloo and 0083 Musais hold their MS in horizontal position.

-The Zanzibar Kai and Gwazine from 0083 do seem to hold their MS vertically, and so seems to be the case of the Musai from 0080 based on its lineart depicting a launching Zaku II.

Regarding the comments of the Garencieres crew, I think it makes little sense given that during Haman's Neo Zeon ships like the Endra and Sadalahn held their MS vertically in order to operate on Earth. On the other hand, the Musaka class do would be a prime example of using the lack lack of gravity in your favor for the positioning of the MS hangar and catapults. I guess it ultimately depends on what ships did the Garencieres crew operated before to determine if their comment is in order or not.
The 7000m from that picture was only an estimation from a scene and not an official number. If we are talking about a manga scene, that could be even more inaccurate.

I do recall we had a discussion about whether MS are standing or lied down in a ship, my view point has changed. I said in that discussion that in real life, the lied down position with legs pointing towards the thrusters of the ship should be a more efficient and rational design for a space ship, since the "gravity" effect generated by the thrusters will then render the MS to be in a standing position.
Come to think of it, It'd make more sense to have the MS at the lowest possible position for ease of maintenance and repairs. So having MS at vertical positions with their front facing the ships' front is probably quite rational if the ship is operating in space. For ships operating in gravity(like Earth or Moon), MSs facing up, with their backs pointing towards the ground will be more rational. So some White base MS docks showing MS on beds that can turn the orientation would be a pretty good design, and in the case of the Garencieres, since there's not enough space, and it has to work in atmosphere, that is pretty much the best orientation it can get.

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:04 pm

Let's not forget that in the original TV series, the earliest glimpse we get of the Dolos is at Granada, from where it takes off towards A Baoa Qu. This do would suggest that it accommodates it's MS vertically in order to operate while under the influence of gravity.

Although, this does make me wonder what happens to ships that can only hold MS horizontally, such as the Musai LPT. Do they need to strap the MS on the ceiling really well so that they keep in place while under the influence of the Moon's gravity, or could they simply have some of their MS remain constantly outside the ship while operating close to the lunar surface? Still, it's one thing to do so for a couple of MS than to several dozens of them, as would be the case of the Dolos if it had to store MS horizontally, specially if it stored some right on top of another.

Back to the huge Dolos, I guess that by now we could realistically expect to get an official length figure, either from the recently announced second season of the Thunderbolt OVAs or eventually from The Origin OVAs.

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by JEFFPIATT » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:00 am

Gelgoog Jager wrote:
Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:04 pm
Let's not forget that in the original TV series, the earliest glimpse we get of the Dolos is at Granada, from where it takes off towards A Baoa Qu. This do would suggest that it accommodates it's MS vertically in order to operate while under the influence of gravity.

Although, this does make me wonder what happens to ships that can only hold MS horizontally, such as the Musai LPT. Do they need to strap the MS on the ceiling really well so that they keep in place while under the influence of the Moon's gravity, or could they simply have some of their MS remain constantly outside the ship while operating close to the lunar surface? Still, it's one thing to do so for a couple of MS than to several dozens of them, as would be the case of the Dolos if it had to store MS horizontally, specially if it stored some right on top of another.

Back to the huge Dolos, I guess that by now we could realistically expect to get an official length figure, either from the recently announced second season of the Thunderbolt OVAs or eventually from The Origin OVAs.
I believe that the hanger we saw in 0083 of a Musai had zaku units standing but the heavy ms like the Dom and the GP02 laid flat clamped to the ceiling and floor the config seemed to change depending on what units were assigned ans ship size as we see a Gwazine class hanger with all standing Ms in it. the Zanzibar class line also has upright MS like the Gaw hanger
http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/0083/l ... msdeck.jpg
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gun ... 0426050200

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Re: A Few Questions On The Dolos Class

Post by Deacon Blues » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:29 pm

The book scan that you linked to on the Wiki is from a doujinshi and probably shouldn't be taken as anything remotely accurate in terms of world building/mechanical info. But, that's the Wiki for ya.

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