Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

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Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:17 pm

Hi all! It's been a busy year, so I've fallen way behind on my Gundam-related research projects. But I've been accumulating odd little mecha-related observations that don't quite justify their own dedicated threads. So let's have a grab-bag topic!

First off, I was recently looking at the dialogue from episode 1 of MS Igloo. Although the published specs for the Jormungand state that it has an output of about 500 terajoules, obtained by detonating a Minovsky fusion reactor which would be equivalent to 150,000 kW output (that's about 100 mobile suit reactors!), the dialogue in the episode itself simply states that the cannon has an output of 150,000 kW. Further, we're told that it's more than ten times as powerful as a large warship cannon, which gives us a basis for comparison to ship guns.

If we think of the Jormungand as a 150 MW beam weapon, then we can compare it to a bunch of other things from different UC works. In particular, we can compare it to the Z'od-iacok from Gundam Sentinel, another 200-meter superweapon. Behold!

http://ultimatemark.com/gundam/images/superweapons.jpg

Given a decade of rapid technological progress, that actually seems fairly rational. Presumably warship cannons would be in the 15 MW range, comparable to the Zeta Gundam's hyper mega launcher...

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by MythSearcher » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:20 am

toysdream wrote:Hi all! It's been a busy year, so I've fallen way behind on my Gundam-related research projects. But I've been accumulating odd little mecha-related observations that don't quite justify their own dedicated threads. So let's have a grab-bag topic!

First off, I was recently looking at the dialogue from episode 1 of MS Igloo. Although the published specs for the Jormungand state that it has an output of about 500 terajoules, obtained by detonating a Minovsky fusion reactor which would be equivalent to 150,000 kW output (that's about 100 mobile suit reactors!), the dialogue in the episode itself simply states that the cannon has an output of 150,000 kW. Further, we're told that it's more than ten times as powerful as a large warship cannon, which gives us a basis for comparison to ship guns.

If we think of the Jormungand as a 150 MW beam weapon, then we can compare it to a bunch of other things from different UC works. In particular, we can compare it to the Z'od-iacok from Gundam Sentinel, another 200-meter superweapon. Behold!

http://ultimatemark.com/gundam/images/superweapons.jpg

Given a decade of rapid technological progress, that actually seems fairly rational. Presumably warship cannons would be in the 15 MW range, comparable to the Zeta Gundam's hyper mega launcher...

-- Mark
Z'od-iacok cannons are Mega particle weapons, which is about 4 times more efficient than laser. which is pretty much just a plain conversion from the energy bank, and likely similar to the Jormungard's method of firing.
So the Z'od-iacok cannons doesn't seem to be much more advance in energy technology, just a more advance science(Minovsky physics) weapon by itself.

BTW, silly numbers here.
for 150,000kW power to generate 500TJ or 500,000,000,000kJ, you need 3,333,333.3 seconds, about 926 hours or 38.6 days or 5.5 weeks.

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:40 pm

That's not how the Jormungand works. It essentially blows up a Minovsky fusion reactor and channels the blast as a bolt of plasma, so the "150,000 kW equivalent" in the specs implies that it's basically exploding a Big Zam every time it fires a shot. Pretty ridiculous, but that's the text.

In the dialogue, this is simplified to say that the beam itself has an output of 150,000 kW. In that case, we should be able to make a rough comparison to the listed outputs of other weapons, regardless of how the beams were generated. Lot of iffy assumptions in there, but they don't list weapon outputs anymore so it's a rare opportunity for the kind of nerdy megawatt-measuring we used to do back in the 20th Century. :-)


Speaking of nerdy measuring, new data set! In the past, we've had a couple of threads on the dimensions of mobile suit projectile weapons, notably...

880mm!? AKA Xeno's questions on calibers
MS handgun caliber

That last one gets way into the minutiae of bullet dimensions and ammo capacity, with a lot of examples from published art, model sheets, kit manuals, etc. One of the more interesting data sources, though, are the measurements obtained from various model kits. I recently picked up a set of vernier calipers which are accurate to 1/10 of a millimeter, and the name alone made it clear that this is the ideal tool for Gunpla analysis! So, with no further ado, the fruits of my research...


MS-06 Zaku II: Based on the PG model kit, the rounds in the machine gun's ammo drum are about 120mm x 630mm, with the bullet itself about 78mm in diameter. (This supports my previous theory that the so-called 120mm Zaku machine gun is actually a scaled-up 7.62mm weapon.)

The Origin version of the Zaku bazooka has replaceable magazines. Based on the HG model kits, the rounds in these magazines are about 500mm x 2100mm. The YMS-03 Waff uses even bigger but shorter shells that measure about 875mm x 1500mm, which is very close to the 880mm caliber of the Dom Tropen's raketen bazooka...


MS-09F/TROP Dom Tropen: Speaking of which, the model sheet for the raketen bazooka suggests rounds of about 800mm x 2300mm, but this can't really be to scale since they'd be too long to fit inside the magazine. The MG kit indicates dimensions of about 570mm x 1720mm, which is basically the same as the MG and PG versions of the Gundam's hyper bazooka...


RX-78 Gundam: And speaking of which, the model sheet claims the hyper bazooka's shells are 700mm x 3200mm, which once again is way too long to fit inside the magazine section. Based on the model kits, the magazine is only half this long, and for this reason I feel like the published figure of 380mm for this weapon is pretty reasonable (just scale down the shells by 50%).

However, the model kits are pretty consistent in terms of the shell size. Based on the various MG kits, they're about 600mm x 1600mm; the PG kit gives us a more precise measurement of 575mm. In other words, the model kits suggest that the rounds are the same size as those of the raketen bazooka, and more generally that the "hyper bazooka" and "giant bazooka" are roughly equivalent.


RX-78GP03S Gundam: The model sheet indicates that the folding bazooka shells are about 500mm x 1300mm.


RX-93 Nu Gundam: Based on the MG kit, the new hyper bazooka's shells are about 460mm x 1800mm. Going by the bazooka's overall length of 16.5m (as per the MG kit), the model sheet indicates that the shells are about 1900mm long, so this seems about right.


RX-0 Unicorn Gundam: Based on the MG kit, the hyper bazooka shells are about 470mm wide.


RMS-099 Rick Dias: The MG kit indicates that the clay bazooka shells are really small, about 250mm x 1150mm. The original model sheet shows them as being somewhat bigger, though. Based on the bazooka's overall length of 13.8m (as per the MG kit) the model sheet would suggest a shell diameter of about 320mm - still less than a hyper bazooka, but not quite so tiny.


As a sideline to this, I also tried measuring the outer diameter of some of the gun barrels. The Magella Top cannon is pretty consistently 350mm in diameter - twice its listed caliber - and the HG Ball Type K's cannons are 375mm in diameter. The standard Ball's cannon is about 650mm in diameter, the HG Guntank's are about 690mm, and the MG Guncannon's are about 920mm. I don't think we can really come up with an ironclad ratio of barrel diameter to shell caliber, but at least this suggests a relative size ranking.

For what it's worth, the anti-ship rifle from The Origin has a barrel diameter of about 390mm, a little wider than the Magella Top cannon. This suggests it's in the range of 180-200mm, I think.

Next time, missiles!

-- Mark

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:38 pm

Addendum to the above: It looks like the Master Grade Nu Gundam Ver.Ka has bazooka shells that are about 600mm in diameter, and this is roughly what I get from the line art of the Dom's giant bazooka from The 08th MS Team. So in general, I think there's a rough consensus that "hyper bazooka" and "giant bazooka" shells are about 600mm.

The next step down is shells in the range of 470-500mm, as represented by The Origin's Zaku bazooka, the GP03's folding bazooka, and the Unicorn Gundam's so-called bazooka.

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by domtropen » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:11 pm

1] what's the output of each of Zeong's finger beam gun, and is it one big gun with 5 barrels or 5 separate guns?

2] is the Origin's anti-ship rifle usable in the atmosphere? and would it be a better gun than hand-held Magella cannon?

3] what is the output of Rick Dom's beam bazooka? and the "box" in front of the grip is the reactor? what is the purpose of the bulk with several tubes at the back of the bazooka?

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:03 pm

I'm also interested on finding out how powerful the beam bazooka is compared to other contemporary weapons:

-Hanheld MS beam rifles
-Battleship beam cannons
-The main gun of the Bigro, supposedly of the same type as the one of the Skiure.
-The main gun of the Big Zam
-The sniper beam rifle of the MS-05L, the Skiure
-The Big Gun emplacements from Thunderbolt

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by False Prophet » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:23 am

I'd like to learn more about MS weaponary, namely the use of optic (What type are they, how they transfer data to the MS, etc.) and the change from kinetic weaponary to beam weaponary in OYW.

On a side note, anyone saw the missile launcher of the Guncannon Early Type?

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:11 pm

So my response to the preceding questions about beam bazookas and whatnot ended up taking the form of a massive comparison graphic of U.C. mega particle cannons and superweapons. Behold!

http://ultimatemark.com/gundam/images/superweapons2.jpg

Including the Nahel Argama for scale was a bit gratuitous, but it's cool seeing that ship-size high mega cannon for comparison purposes. But before I get into that, let's reply to domtropen and Gelgoog Jager...


The Zeong supposedly uses a Kia M-33E mega particle cannon, derived from the Gogg's Kia M-23, for all its weapons. That includes the hand cannons, so the output must be split up somehow into the five barrels. Its hands are a bit smaller than those of the Psycho Gundam, so I expect the output per barrel would be lower than the Psycho Gundam's 2.0 MW beam cannons.

No idea about the anti-ship rifle from The Origin, sorry.

The Rick Dom's beam bazooka is said to be as powerful as the main cannon of a Musai-class cruiser. It doesn't use an energy (i.e. particle) supply from the mobile suit, so it must have an internal reactor for that purpose, which I assume is in the box next to the grip. The MG kit manual says that the section at the back is a "particle chamber," where I assume the Minovsky particles from the reactor would be compressed into mega particles. The two sections are connected by an "energy supplier cable" that presumably conveys Minovsky particles to the back end of the weapon.


As far as comparative outputs, there's not a lot of data on this, and I put pretty much everything I could find in the chart. The publications also give us some qualitative information, such as...

The ZZ's high mega cannon is said to have about 1/5 the output of a colony laser. Snce the Nahel Argama's high mega cannon - the same type installed on the Argama during ZZ - is usually compared to a colony laser, I assume its output would be in the 250 MW range, which is why I included it in the chart.

The Deep Striker's main gun is the same type installed on the Argama, Radish, and Nahel Argama (rear turrets), which is the other reason I included the Nahel Argama in the graphic.

The Mega-Rider's main gun is in the same class as the ZZ's high mega cannon and the Jamru Fin's mega launcher, which should put it in the 40-50 MW range. I suspect the same would apply to the original Mega Bazooka Launcher as well, in which case the FAZZ's hyper mega cannon would outclass all these weapons.

The S Gundam's beam smartgun, however, is supposed to have lower output than the Mega Bazooka Launcher. Perhaps we should consider the Sentinel outputs to be generally overstated? The smartgun certainly doesn't look that much bigger than the Doven Wolf's beam rifle...

The Titans' mega launcher is more powerful than the main cannon of a Salamis Kai. Which is believable since it turns out to be really big!

The Skiure's firepower is unknown. But its cannon appears to be about 1.5 times bigger than the GP02's beam bazooka, which must be a scaled-down version.

The Big Gun from Gundam Thunderbolt, on the other hand, looks like a scaled-up version of the Zaku I's beam sniper rifle. It's actually not all that big compared to other mega launcher-type weapons.

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:33 pm

Slight update to the superweapon comparison graphic:

http://ultimatemark.com/gundam/images/superweapons2.jpg

I've added the Zeta Gundam's hyper mega launcher, plus the Super Gundam and G-Defenser with their long rifle. These were a little tricky to scale since the size of these weapons varies tremendously among the different toy and model incarnations, but as far as I can tell, both weapons should be about 30 meters long.

Although the hyper mega launcher and the long rifle have pretty modest power outputs, there may be an explanation for this. In both cases, the weapon can function as a stand-alone unit thanks to its internal generator, and the listed output of 6.8 MW for the long rifle apparently reflects its performance in stand-alone mode. But when used by a mobile suit, both weapons can connect to the mobile suit's power circuits for additional energy, increasing their output to (in the case of the long rifle) "mega beam launcher class".

So this seems like a similar situation to the Doven Wolf's 12.5 MW beam rifle, and the 6.2 MW main gun of the Jamru Fin's Mega Booster, both of which can connect directly to the mobile suit and boost their output to 40 MW. Since the Zeta and Gundam Mark II have smaller generators, their weapons probably don't produce quite as much output, but this does put them in the same range as the Mega Bazooka Launcher. Oddly, the same is true of the Zeta II's mega beam rifle, but only in mobile armor form...

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:54 pm

The thing that I find really striking about that image is the ZZ's High Mega Cannon, which is both really powerful and really tiny compared to almost everything else. If they can cram a 50 MW beam cannon into a Gundam's head (even amid the camera equipment and the like), then what's the point of having giant bulky bazooka-style handheld weapons or big chunky torso-mounted fixed cannons? Some of them have built-in reactors that would add a lot of heft, but not all of them.

Does the ZZ's smaller cannon mean it's less accurate or shorter range because the beam is less focused? Does it have a lower firing rate because it has trouble shedding heat or is slower transferring energy from the reactor to the head than it would be to the torso or a dedicated hand-held cannon? If the ZZ can stuff a canon that powerful into a space that small, why don't they all do that?
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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Jamafore » Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:40 pm

Is the important bits of the gun even in the head or is it just the exit point? If it's just the exit point, then the important bits could be in the torso, with the head acting similar to a turret.
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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:07 pm

The main tradeoffs I can see with the ZZ's head cannon are that it's really, really short-range, and also that it exhausts the mobile suit's entire energy supply and basically renders it powerless for a while afterwards.

Some of the Japanese publications posit that the G-Fortress form is designed for long-range cruising and long-range combat, while the ZZ's mobile suit form is oriented mainly towards close combat; when you think about it, most of its weapons are awkwardly placed in MS form (the missiles point backwards, the shoulder cannons can't easily swivel forward), and the only ones it can easily use are the huge beam sabers and that cumbersome double beam rifle. It seems significant that, aside from the sabers, the head cannon is the only weapon that can only be used in close-combat MS form.

The main explanation I've seen for the inclusion of this feature in the ZZ is that the AEUG wanted to make it a match for the firepower of a Psycho Gundam. Rather than playing the role of a mega launcher - long-range attacks on enemy warships - it's apparently intended as an emergency weapon for taking out Psycho Gundam-class machines in close combat. Kind of like the Destiny Gundam's palm weapon, perhaps...

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Aug 24, 2016 5:29 am

Speaking of beam weapons, I also had a few questions regarding the OYW beam machine guns:

-First of all, is the weapon from the YMS-18 meant to be one? It reminds of the rifle of the MS-05L and the beam machine gun from the Gelgoog series, but it has a drum-like cartridge that could be the predecessor of the ones used by Quess's Jagd Doga (or the AMX-011G) and the Sleeves beam gatling gun, which made me wonder if it could be meant to be a rapid fire weapon.

-Regarding the Gelgoog's beam machine gun, I was wondering if the drum attached to Cima's MS-14FS' beam machine gun was meant to work as an e-pac. The standard beam machine gun already has something has some sort of box inside the stock, but I'm not certain if it's supposed to be a generator or an e-pac. Assuming the drum attached to Cima's weapon is indeed a sort of e-pac, which would make more sense to be at the stock: a generator for activating the mega articles at the drum cartridge, or more mega articles for essentially "more shots"?

-Any idea how does the beam cannon of a MS-14C compares to a Gelgoog's beam rifle?

-Finally, a post-OYW question: is the AMX-008B limited to MS form, or can it still transform despite the additional equipment?

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:57 pm

Gelgoog Jager wrote:First of all, is the weapon from the YMS-18 meant to be one?
I think it's just a projectile-firing machine gun. So the tradition of the projectile-firing Kaempfer continues!
Regarding the Gelgoog's beam machine gun, I was wondering if the drum attached to Cima's MS-14FS' beam machine gun was meant to work as an e-pac. The standard beam machine gun already has something has some sort of box inside the stock, but I'm not certain if it's supposed to be a generator or an e-pac.
I think it's very unusual for a hand weapon to have its own generator. Aside from the mega launcher types, the only example that comes to mind is the ZZ's double beam rifle. In the case of Cima's Gelgoog, the model sheet notes explain that the drum is indeed an e-pac; it connects directly to a condenser (the box in front of the trigger) where, presumably, the stored particles are compressed into mega particles. The stock of the rifle contains a replaceable coolant cylinder that makes it capable of rapid fire - this weapon is technically a beam rifle but this rapid-fire capability makes it an honorary beam machine gun.

The Gelgoog Jaeger's beam machine gun doesn't have an external energy pack. The MG kit manual claims that the stock contains a "power condenser" - again, this suggests it's a device for forming mega particles, in which case the weapon layout is probably similar to that of the Rick Dom's beam bazooka.
Any idea how does the beam cannon of a MS-14C compares to a Gelgoog's beam rifle?
Nope, sorry.
Finally, a post-OYW question: is the AMX-008B limited to MS form, or can it still transform despite the additional equipment?
It can definitely transform. The caption in the old 1/144 kit manual says that its hyper knuckle buster is mounted on the left shoulder in MA form.


EDIT: Speaking of eccentric and complex beam weapons, I just noticed a note on the Mega-Rider in the back of the Newtype 100% Collection. The Mega-Rider's built-in mega launcher has an E-pac with enough charge for four shots. The accompany note reads:
When using the E-cartridge, the main mega launcher's output is in the class of the ZZ's mega particle cannon. Even without it, it has the firepower in the class of the Zeta's mega launcher.
So the Mega-Rider has two levels of output, depending on whether it's using up one of its E-pac charges. The Jamru Fin's mega launcher is supposed to have output equivalent to the Mega-Rider, but I don't know whether that's at the higher or lower output. But since this mega launcher's output (40.2 MW) is fairly close to that of the ZZ's high mega cannon, I suspect they're talking about the higher setting.

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:14 pm

I forgot about one that I'm kinda puzzled about: the Gallus J's infamous energy gun, which in an older thread Balofo pointed out that it had originally been intended to be a beam magnum with expendable e-pacs. Is there any sources echoing up this claim?

http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=14281

Also, I was wondering if beam weapons, particularly those powered direct by generators, can be used for single firing and for continuous firing. For instance, the beam bazooka of the Rick Dom is sometimes depicted as a single shot firing weapon (0081 OVA) and sometimes as capable of firing continuous beams (PS2 EiS cutscene with Gato's MS-09RS).

The Bigro's beam cannon probably also falls into the same category, can sometimes be seen as single firing weapon (0081), but in MS Igloo the Big Rang which uses a Bigro as its core component is able to sweep a beam to take out multiple ships with a single continuous beam. IIRC, some Rezels are seeing using weapons that work similarly, and we can also see the Big Gun from Thunderbolt working in such fashion (to produce more debris).

My point is, can these weapons essentially operate as large beam sabers, at least while their generator is able to keep up and as long as the barrel holds on before melting?

Also, in some of these cases, such as the Bigro, we can probably attribute the movement of the beam to an i-field at the barrel of the weapon. If I'm not mistaken, units like the Gogg have i-fields on their beam guns which allow them to fire either straight beams or spread beams. If that's the case, could this mean that a Bigro should also be able to generate a spread beam?

Another related example would be the Zanzibar, which has those odd mega particle guns that it can even sue to generate a blinding flash. I imagine that it's similar to a Dom's chest beam spray gun, which in the original TV series even doubled as an actual beam gun. Therefore, could we assume that other similar beam weapons can also be used in such fashion?

Last, but not least, I was wondering if each of Zock's mega particle guns actually had several smaller nozzles and it uses i-fields to combine them into the larger beams it fires from each large nozzle?

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Brave Fencer Kirby » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:37 pm

Figured I'd toss in something something I discovered recently. Out of curiosity, I decided to look into how dangerous the holes that mecha occasionally poke in colony walls are. I found a formula (at Atomic Rockets, specifically here) for determining how long it takes for a compartment to depressurize when exposed to vacuum.

Plugging in the values for an Island 3 colony (volume of a cylinder 32 km long and 4 km radius at 100 kPa atmospheric pressure -- roughly sea level average) and assuming a roughly mobile suit-sized hole (a circle 20 meters in diameter), I wanted to see how long it would take for the air to get dangerously thin (25 kPa, which is around when people start suffocating).

The answer comes out to 412 days. No wonder people are fairly casual about blasting holes in colony walls! As long as you're not actually near the hole itself and in danger of being sucked out into space (as happened to Tem Ray), a moderately-sized hull breach is definitely a bad thing, but not an existential crisis for the colony.
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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by toysdream » Thu Aug 25, 2016 7:01 pm

Updated the graphic again with the Z'od-iacok, plus the mega particle turrets from the Argama and White Base. (I wanted to include the upgraded versions both ships were later given, but the model sheets don't really give enough context to get a precise scale.) It's amusing to realize that the Argama's mega particle cannon is basically a Skiure! The Titans mega launcher also has an iris-like muzzle that resembles the Argama's cannon.

I must say, as I go through and put all these side by side in scale, the design and size of these weapons is actually a lot more rational than I would have guessed. There's a definite consistency of design, and the larger mobile suit-operated weapons are genuinely comparable in size to the ship-mounted versions. It's fully believable that the Titans mega launcher and the Skiure (and presumably the main guns of the Bigro and Big Zam) are similar in range and output to the mega particle cannons of the White Base and Argama.


Replying to Gelgoog Jager: Not sure if there's any published info on that energy gun - I'll look around. As for continuous fire, most of these big guns have a long recharge time which would make sustained use pretty unlikely. If you attach a big old Big-Rang generator, though, maybe that'll help. As for the ReZEL, its long-duration "guillotine burst" is a special firing mode that's specifically described in the kit manuals. It reminds me of the Asshimar's beam rifle, which had a similar strafing ability...

As far as "open-barrel" cannons like those of the Gogg, this is the "deflection type" mega particle cannon discussed in Gundam Century. Right at the end, under "Superweapons," we read...
Because the earliest mega particle cannons were quite large and used a great deal of electrical power, they were set in large turrets. It was difficult to improve the targeting accuracy of these large turrets, and their ability to track moving enemies was none too high. Therefore, in more advanced types of mega particle cannon an I-field generator was installed in front of the focused particle emitter, making it possible to deflect the beam by about 20 degrees.
The fact that the particles are directed by an external I-field - often, but not always, indicated by external guides like those of the White Base's cannons - also explains why these weapons can toggle between focused and diffuse firing modes. Most of the weapons which resemble the Gogg's belly guns - including those of the Zanzibar, Zeong, Bigro, Big Zam, and Psycho Gundam - are indeed of this "deflection type" and can probably switch between these two modes pretty easily.

And thanks to Brave Fencer Kirby for setting our minds at rest about those leaky colonies! :-)

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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by AmuroNT1 » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:44 pm

toysdream wrote:I must say, as I go through and put all these side by side in scale, the design and size of these weapons is actually a lot more rational than I would have guessed. There's a definite consistency of design, and the larger mobile suit-operated weapons are genuinely comparable in size to the ship-mounted versions. It's fully believable that the Titans mega launcher and the Skiure (and presumably the main guns of the Bigro and Big Zam) are similar in range and output to the mega particle cannons of the White Base and Argama.
Little bits of consistency like this always amuse me because it shows real forethought on the part of the mechanical designers. As a Wing fan, it was cool to realize that you can trace the evolution of OZ's high-power beam weapons from Vayeate's cannon and giant particle accelerator all the way up to Tallgeese III's megacannon.
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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by MythSearcher » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:04 am

Brave Fencer Kirby wrote:Figured I'd toss in something something I discovered recently. Out of curiosity, I decided to look into how dangerous the holes that mecha occasionally poke in colony walls are. I found a formula (at Atomic Rockets, specifically here) for determining how long it takes for a compartment to depressurize when exposed to vacuum.

Plugging in the values for an Island 3 colony (volume of a cylinder 32 km long and 4 km radius at 100 kPa atmospheric pressure -- roughly sea level average) and assuming a roughly mobile suit-sized hole (a circle 20 meters in diameter), I wanted to see how long it would take for the air to get dangerously thin (25 kPa, which is around when people start suffocating).

The answer comes out to 412 days. No wonder people are fairly casual about blasting holes in colony walls! As long as you're not actually near the hole itself and in danger of being sucked out into space (as happened to Tem Ray), a moderately-sized hull breach is definitely a bad thing, but not an existential crisis for the colony.
Actually, G.K. O'Neil did the calculations when he proposed the Island 3 concept and got a number of over 300 days.
Thus already disregarding it as a big risk for holes to puncture.

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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: Random Gundam Tech Tidbits

Post by Gelgoog Jager » Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:09 pm

Regarding the Gelgoog beam machine gun (the one used by the MS-14Jg, but also included for the MS-14A in the original MG kit), if it has a power condenser instead of an E-Cap (or beside one), does that mean that the weapon can actually replenish it's mega particles as long as its connected to a MS with a high generator output? In such case, its main limitation be the durability of the weapon's barrel, wouldn't it?

With such though in mind, it wouldn't be surprising that an improved version, such as Cima's, would include a coolant cylinder to deal with the new limitation. The alternative would be a cooling jacket like that of the MS-14BR's rifle, which seems to have been inherited by the MS-14J's beam rifle (which also happens to have a grenade launcher). The later also has a box-like stock that it's most likely its E-Pac.

There's also the MS-14G's longer rifle (also included with Gato's Gelgoog MG kit), which has two odd boxes, one on the stock (removable) and one in front the trigger, plus a jacket for the barrel, which I assume could be for cooling. Perhaps this weapon wasn't a crude oversized prototype, but rather a more complete beam rifle that had to be striped down for mass production, yet some of its features come back for improved beam weapons.

On a related note, the MS-14J's beam rifle has a power rating of 2.18 MW, though I'm not sure if it refers to both models of beam rifles it's said to use.

This reminded me of the GM spray gun, which I think read somewhere that it could be latched into the GM's hip to recharge, which sounds similar to what happens to beam sabers. Assuming that's the case, the difference would be that given the size of the beam spray gun, the power condenser would have to be on the MS itself.

Going back to the Rick Dom's beam bazooka, since you mentioned that a standard ship MPC turret could have a power rating of 15 MW based on the info about the Jormungand, is it safe to assume that the beam bazooka has a similar power rating?

Also, in other threads we have discussed how the weapon can work under two different conditions:

-With a MS without enough generator output to supply it, such as a standard MS-09R Rick Dom or even a Zaku II, in which case the beam bazooka relies entirely on its own generator output, which would probably limit its firing rate.

-With a MS capable of supplementing its generator output, such as the infamous MS-09RS, which supposedly can actually provide part of its higher generator output to potentially increase the firing rate of the weapon.

To provide this difference in output, does the MS-09RS has one of those 1,440 kW generators installed not only on the Gelgoogs, but also other OYW units such as MS-11 and MS-06R-2P, and later on in some upgraded OYW units from ZZ?

Another one about generators, related to the talk about the MS-14G's long beam rifle: over the years we have tried to figure out if there are or not differences between the YMS-14 and the MS-14A. For instance, IIRC you mentioned once that a simple difference between the MS-14A and MS-14S could be assuming that the later is 30% faster, just like the MS-06S VS the MS-06F. I was wondering if another of the "downgrades" of the MS-14A over the base model could have been its generator. What I mean is, could the YMS-14 have used a more powerful 1,490 kW generator, like those of the MS-14JG and MS-14FS? I do like the idea of a more well defined YMS-14, with higher thrust and generator output, and a better weapon than the mass production beam rifle. I guess the downside could be the early setback of having a heat naginata.

While the 1,440 kW generator seems to have become a very common model late during the OYW (and even afterwards), I could imagine Zeon having a slightly more powerful version available for high end/commander units, specially if the MS-14JG and MS-14FS were produced around the same time as the standard MS-14A.

Finally, between the unofficial nod from Gundam Built Fighters showing a Gyan using a beam rifle and the Gyan Eos officially using a beam bayonet w/beam gun, can we now assume that the Gyan do could have operated ranged beam weapons?

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