The optimal configuration of weapons for mecha?

[-Mit-]

...My "boorish" statement was actually an expression of how your responses make you appear to others; if you don't like it, you should strive to correct it by changing your behavior and the way you present yourself and your questions and ideas, rather than supporting my comment by telling me to read carefully.

Perhaps you're right, then I will try to use less irony, sarcasm, allegory and accurately formulate thoughts

So if it's not about specific models, why did you focus on nitpicking irrelevant details about the clearly-under-performing Mistral rather than discussing weapons and design philosophy?

Because it most clearly represents the concept of well-armed mecha in the original "FMP!"
https://pp.vk.me/c311116/v311116602/60c ... RGVhis.jpg

Although, perhaps I should not have put him alone in an argument - as began to find fault with its design

However, I might add, as an example, and "Type 96". "Model 96" has two suspension assembly on the "back" that allows it`s to carry additional weapons like recoilless gun / missile unit or equipment, such as infrared illuminator.
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sohryu_l ... iginal.jpg
http://film.thedigitalfix.com/protected ... 2front.jpg

Also, your questions are asking very different things; the first is broadly about specialization vs versatility in mecha weaponry...

Not really, since it's part of the same issue...

In the original "FMP!" prevails equipment AS with light weapons, but but in the third generation already appear specialized models such as "sniper", is equipped with a long-range gun

At the same time there is a "Mistral II", nominally be equipped with missiles with a decent range, in addition to the autocannon

the second seems to be asking about the utility of "heavy" weapons on mechs...

Rather, the need for such weapons, because even very fast and supermaneuverability "M9" forced to use rocket launchers against well-protected military equipment and facilities...
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n29/ ... 10_037.jpg

and the third clearly asking about the mecha themselves (humanoid vs vehicle with limbs).

It was a figurative comparison of units are betting on the maneuverability or firepower, respectively


So, in the end there is the question "What is better?" - model using heavy weapons as a subsidiary + unit specialized under a powerful weapon on the basis of the standard model or an ordinary model equipped with heavy arms as a standard part of the arsenal?

For example, are you creating some kind of fan-design Arm Slave, maybe for a fanfic or something?

Frankly, nothing like that. Just interested in aspects of armaments AS as a real-mecha, and in the best suited combination to regular troops...

Brave Fencer Kirby's first post is about as good an answer as you can possibly expect.

His reply concerned more mecha themselves, or rather their actions in different environments

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Mobility is the most important factor in an Arm Slave's survivability. ... The larger weapon is a good deal bigger and less versatile, and harder to employ in maneuver warfare.

Now мore time, carefully, read the quotation

"Armor-plating humanoid fighting machines, in principle, could not resist the ingress of shells powerful tank guns, and their main weapons - small-caliber automatic cannon - was not able to hit the tank in the front. ... AS could not expect to win in a direct duel with tanks fire, so "Mithril" AS used dug around the base of "Alamo" ditches as trenches to escape the whistling over the desert piercing billets. Firing anti-tank missiles, they quickly replaced the position jumping from one ditch to another, and using smoke screens, tools and infrared jamming traps."

Agility, of course, a good characteristic, but it is not always possible implementation ... Equally important is the mecha`s ability to use and create shelter ... But in any case, to defeat tanks and other heavily armored military vehicles, need anti-tank (and even better multi-purpose) missiles...

(...

The problem with this contention is that nobody has been able to corroborate the allegations that the Mistral II's mobility is good. We know, from the DVD liner notes and official art books that it has better than average armor for its generation and that, despite its simple electronics, it has a fire control system that compares favorably to the export "monkey model" version of the Rk-92...

So what's the problem? "Mistral II", or rather its designers, have focused on the protection and firepower, combined with the maintainability... By the way, if the term "mobility" in this case is used in the sense of "transportability"?

but based on the printed specs its land speed is the slowest in its generation...its jump height is on the low end of average, physical agility is said to be lower than any of its competitors, and its maximum operating time's 15% less than its competing designs ....

In fairness, I have never met the precise characteristics "Drache", so do not argue that it was "Mistral" worst AS in his generation ... By the way, according to the maximum operating time "Mistral" is superior to "Cyclone"...

In general, it is time to finish the discussion of the "Mistral", as we are talking, after all, the concept of weapons... )

The only problem here is that you're not even checking that the material you're quoting from is 1. canon, 2. accurate, or 3. actually in support of your argument.

I check the information on the basis of sources available to me...

1. Remember, you are trying to announce the entire twelve-volume sequel history "FMP Another!" are dubious canon, also very strange interpreted quotations from "Full Metal Panic Vol.12:! Approaching Nick of Time." trying to prove your thesis (one of the leaders of the "Amalgam" Japanese, another Italian-born Yankees, remaining unknown - means "Amalgam" controlled by the Soviet Union!...This is some nonsense.)

2. There are translation errors, but I'm trying to verify the information -

...armour defence and electronics are actually better than Savage/it has better than average armor for its generation and that, despite its simple electronics, it has a fire control system that compares favorably to the export "monkey model" version of the Rk-92...

- and apparently, the information is quite accurate

3. re-read, please, again, decryption quotes about maneuverability and missiles...

"Armor-plating humanoid fighting machines, in principle, could not resist the ingress of shells powerful tank guns, and their main weapons - small-caliber automatic cannon - was not able to hit the tank in the front. ... AS could not expect to win in a direct duel with tanks fire, so "Mithril" AS used dug around the base of "Alamo" ditches as trenches to escape the whistling over the desert piercing billets. Firing anti-tank missiles, they quickly replaced the position jumping from one ditch to another, and using smoke screens, tools and infrared jamming traps."

Agility, of course, a good characteristic, but it is not always possible implementation ... Equally important is the mecha`s ability to use and create shelter ... But in any case, to defeat tanks and other heavily armored military vehicles, need anti-tank (and even better multi-purpose) missiles...

[Seto Kaiba]

So if it's not about specific models, why did you focus on nitpicking irrelevant details about the clearly-under-performing Mistral rather than discussing weapons and design philosophy?

Because it most clearly represents the concept of well-armed mecha in the original "FMP!"
https://pp.vk.me/c311116/v311116602/60c ... RGVhis.jpg

Not quite. You think it represents the concept of a well-armed AS in Full Metal Panic!, but what it actually represents is the low water mark for combat capability in 2nd Generation AS's.

However, I might add, as an example, and "Type 96". "Model 96" has two suspension assembly on the "back" that allows it`s to carry additional weapons like recoilless gun / missile unit or equipment, such as infrared illuminator.

That's true for virtually every AS, though.. it's not in any way a unique or distinctive feature of the Type 96. It's usually where they carry disposable support weaponry like mecha-sized recoilless anti-tank launchers (as on the Savage that Sousuke hijacks during the mission that got him picked for the TDD-1's SRT).

In the original "FMP!" prevails equipment AS with light weapons, but but in the third generation already appear specialized models such as "sniper", is equipped with a long-range gun

Not exactly. The few cases of specialized AS's we encounter in the main series are not actually presented as specialized variants or models. They're presented as the standard model carrying optional equipment and/or software. Mao's command M9 is still designated (X)M9E, it just has the optional electronic warfare package mounted. Kurz's unit is similarly never referred to as being a different variant or even customized in any overt fashion. It's a stock XM9E.

Rather, the need for such weapons, because even very fast and supermaneuverability "M9" forced to use rocket launchers against well-protected military equipment and facilities...

Rocket launchers are an ideal support weapon for an AS, because they're easy to wield and their hardware is cheap and easy to manufacture... making them effectively disposable after use. It's quite an advantage over a missile launcher that may need extra communications hardware for a guided missile or a heavy cannon that would be cost-prohibitive to dispose of on the battlefield.

Now мore time, carefully, read the quotation

I did... apparently much more carefully than you did.

Agility, of course, a good characteristic, but it is not always possible implementation ... Equally important is the mecha`s ability to use and create shelter ... But in any case, to defeat tanks and other heavily armored military vehicles, need anti-tank (and even better multi-purpose) missiles...

You kind of missed the point of that segment entirely... if you're in an AS and you're in a situation where you're NOT able to exploit that agility, you are all kinds of screwed.

Even in that impromptu trench warfare scenario, the AS's are dependent on using their agility to jump from one foxhole to another to evade enemy tanks.

So what's the problem? "Mistral II", or rather its designers, have focused on the protection and firepower, combined with the maintainability... By the way, if the term "mobility" in this case is used in the sense of "transportability"?

The problem is, quite simply, that the C3-5 Mistral II's heavier armor and reduced cost came at a price... it lost a large portion of its speed and agility, which in a vehicle that can't endure the fire from anti-tank weapons means that it's basically a large, slow target. A moving target is a great deal harder to hit, and it can't move as effectively as its rivals, which makes it vulnerable.

In fairness, I have never met the precise characteristics "Drache", so do not argue that it was "Mistral" worst AS in his generation ...

The problem with that line of reasoning, which would otherwise be quite sound, is that the Drache is described as being an exceptional 2nd Generation AS on par with the M6 Bushnell... whereas the Mistral II is described as being a low-tech death trap better suited to oppressing peasants than to fighting other AS's.

By the way, according to the maximum operating time "Mistral" is superior to "Cyclone"...

I know you're drawing that number from the FMP! Another sheets, which contradict official numbers in many cases... though it's worth noting that, if accurate, that would be the Cyclone II's operating time with both of its engines running (which it doesn't always do).

That's one of the big pluses in the Cyclone II's book is that, at output, it's a 2nd Generation AS with conventional engine tech that has performance almost rivaling a 3rd Generation AS.

1. Remember, you are trying to announce the entire twelve-volume sequel history "FMP Another!" are dubious canon,

A position supported by clear contradictions between the material presented in the novels and in the spinoff, such as the performance data of certain AS's (like the Mistral II).

3. re-read, please, again, decryption quotes about maneuverability and missiles...

Please see my earlier explanation of how you've missed the key point of this piece.

[Areku]

Please see my earlier explanation of how you've missed the key point of this piece.

I think we should just let it go, Seto. -Mit- has shoved his head far, far up Reinforcement Theory. It's probably in your best interest to just leave him to his echo chamber in peace. It's okay, there're no peasants for his precious Mistral to terrorize, and that's about the only thing it threatens.

[Kuruni]

I say, the problem is that -Mit-'s purpose on this thread seemt o to keep shifting. It start as generic mecha discussion with FMPanis! as example, then shift to FMP! specific...now it's about how he want walking tank to be superior to mechanical humanoid. (if this keep go on, maybe it will become about flower arrangements eventually)

Just in case that there's some hope to reason with him. Mistral II is only match for Ливень (Savage) because, face it, gen 2 AS isn't too hot in term of tech level. So high mobility AS isn't a thing at that point.

BUT when gen 3 roll-in and AS become much more nimble,the walking tank is simply obsoleted. Heck, here* is L'Arc-en-Ciel, the Mistral's gen 3 successor. And if you can't tell from its look, it's no longer a walking tank. Even if France actually eschew close combat, it's now more of hit-and-run gunfighter.

So if you still want to know about "The optimal configuration of weapons for FMP mecha" instead of finding someone who share your queer love to walking tank (yaranaika?), the series already answer it - versatile model win (we noted this since the first page of this thread).

* BTW, photobucket is free. So there's no excuse to link to North Korean's malware.

[ShadowCell]

-Mit-, i'm going to second everyone else and ask you to figure out what it is you want to talk about specifically, and please stop linking to suspicious websites. photobucket and imgur are free to use and don't try to eat people's computers.

(if this keep go on, maybe it will become about flower arrangements eventually)

if y'all are gonna start arguing about the relative combat effectiveness of different flower arrangements then by all means, please begin, because that sounds amazing c:

[Seto Kaiba]

I think we should just let it go, Seto. -Mit- has shoved his head far, far up Reinforcement Theory. It's probably in your best interest to just leave him to his echo chamber in peace.

... it's rare that I meet someone as "diplomatic" as I usually am. I'm left kind of feeling like I owe you a beer or something.

It's okay, there're no peasants for his precious Mistral to terrorize, and that's about the only thing it threatens.

At least nations like the Balic Republic can use them as really expensive coffins when they get their sh*t wrecked by Savages, Bushnells, Cyclones, Draches, or Goblins, let alone the newer stuff.

I say, the problem is that -Mit-'s purpose on this thread seemt o to keep shifting. It start as generic mecha discussion with FMPanis! as example, then shift to FMP! specific...now it's about how he want walking tank to be superior to mechanical humanoid.

Called it, waaaay back on page 1... we're repeating the pattern of his last few threads. The same pattern of asserting something that's explicitly false in its native series and then piling on with the non-sequiturs and bad info when the problem is pointed out.

Just in case that there's some hope to reason with him. Mistral II is only match for Ливень (Savage) because, face it, gen 2 AS isn't too hot in term of tech level. So high mobility AS isn't a thing at that point.

The Mistral II's not even really much of a match for the Savage, because high mobility is the one advantage the Savage really has. It's armored like a cream slice, its weapons are nothing worth writing home about, and its only other significant merit is that its simple construction is so hard-wearing that you can neglect and abuse the damn thing for ages before it finally breaks down.

BUT when gen 3 roll-in and AS become much more nimble,the walking tank is simply obsoleted. Heck, here* is L'Arc-en-Ciel, the Mistral's gen 3 successor. And if you can't tell from its look, it's no longer a walking tank. Even if France actually eschew close combat, it's now more of hit-and-run gunfighter.

Explicitly it's an ambush predator... it's designed to skulk around the battlefield and sneak up on enemies.

(if this keep go on, maybe it will become about flower arrangements eventually)

if y'all are gonna start arguing about the relative combat effectiveness of different flower arrangements then by all means, please begin, because that sounds amazing c:

... if we were talking G Gundam I could see doing this with a straight face. Wasn't the Neo France Gundam Fighter armed with flowers? (For that matter, that sounds like something that'd be in Neo Holland's bag of tricks... they're famous for windmills and tulips, after all.)

'course now that the idea's been tabled, some mangaka or studio is gonna do a series about extreme battle flower arrangement, like a florist's version of Shokugeki no Soma.

[Arsarcana]

That sounds right up Ranma 1/2's alley. Actually wouldn't surprise me if somewhere in the material, there was an Anything Goes Flower Arranging battle. Dunno, it's been a long time and I never saw/read all of it. And can we count Weiss Kreuz for having lethal flower arrangers, or is that too tenuous?

And yes, Rose Gundam had bits shaped like roses. Based on that and some other things, I think one could make an argument for an arrangement of red roses being easily the most powerful in combat. They have thorns which hurt like a bitch when they prick you and by virtue of being red, they're automatically three times better than other flowers.

[Brave Fencer Kirby]

Brave Fencer Kirby's first post is about as good an answer as you can possibly expect.

His reply concerned more mecha themselves, or rather their actions in different environments

My response was a broad answer to a broad question, about whether versatility or specialization was preferable, and applies equally to the mecha themselves and the weapons they mount or carry. In general, specialized equipment does better in the circumstances it was designed for, but doesn't do as well outside those circumstances, while versatile equipment has decent all-around performance, but doesn't do especially well in any situation. The exception to this is when a situation is sufficiently different from the general case, making specialized equipment the only viable option.

An assault rifle is a good general-purpose weapon that can be used adequately for a variety of environments, situations, and ranges. For short ranges and close-quarters conditions (such as jungle or urban fighting), however, a submachine gun is a better choice, as it's smaller and thus easier to handle without getting it tangled in things like vegetation or debris. As a long-ranged weapon, a high caliber bolt action rifle would be a better choice than an assault rifle because they tend to be more powerful and more accurate, meaning you can make every shot count even though rapid fire isn't an option. However, an assault rifle can perform adequately in both long-range and short-range combat, while a submachine gun would be worthless at long range and a bolt-action rifle would be terrible at close range. If you can guarantee that you'll only be fighting at close range, you're better off using a submachine gun. If you can be certain that you'll only be fighting at long range, a bolt-action rifle is the best choice. If you know that you might be fighting in either situation, then an assault rifle makes the most sense.

However, there are some situations where a versatile, general-use weapon simply won't work. Let's say you need to fight underwater. An assault rifle, if it's able to function at all, would have terrible firepower and poor accuracy. This is true of basically any gun designed to be used in normal conditions, so you would need a gun specifically designed to be used while underwater (these actually exist, for the record).

Which goes back to my original point: when compared to general purpose equipment, specialized equipment will usually have superior performance in the appropriate situation, but lower performance outside that situation, except in situations that are so far outside the normal use case that general purpose equipment isn't up to the task.

This means that which is better depends on the details of the scenario. There simply is no single answer to the general form of the question.

Wasn't the Neo France Gundam Fighter armed with flowers?

Yep! Rose bits, which were basically funnels shaped like roses. He also used them for his special attacks.

[Kuruni]

That sounds right up Ranma 1/2's alley. Actually wouldn't surprise me if somewhere in the material, there was an Anything Goes Flower Arranging battle. Dunno, it's been a long time and I never saw/read all of it. And can we count Weiss Kreuz for having lethal flower arrangers, or is that too tenuous?

And yes, Rose Gundam had bits shaped like roses. Based on that and some other things, I think one could make an argument for an arrangement of red roses being easily the most powerful in combat. They have thorns which hurt like a bitch when they prick you and by virtue of being red, they're automatically three times better than other flowers.

And the manga upgrade also armed with rose saber bit...

Spoiler

...and it's the reason he beat Jester Gundam in this continuity.

BTW, doesn't George use it like dart on foot too?

[Areku]

I'm amazed F91's Lafressia hasn't been brought up yet.

Then there's that nightmarish Blossom Sail from the first episode of Suisei no Gargantia. Death Star + absurd regeneration capabilities + Little Shop of Horrors = Nope!

[-Mit-]

Reinforcement theory, ha? Well, this term, as the principle relationship to the facts, applicable to all present here the fans and fanatics who interpret all available information in a convenient they mean, even if there are opposite examples - on the example of "Seto Kaiba" from his disregard " uselessness maneuverability without at least missiles "and literally a religious belief that "Amalgam" = "Evil Soviet Union"...

In principle, more broadly, the main problem of this forum is that there is only accepted to discuss about the data from any subsidiary source to any of anime / manga series, and even then not all - in the case of "FMP!" its direct continuation "for Another" trying to declare a non-canon... (The only exception is respected "Mark" - he`s analysis and comparison of different sources on the "Gundam" read with pleasure, because it does not reject anything, but compare and make valid conclusions)
...Does the attempt to speculate on the general theme or make an assumption about what something immediately encounter an obstacle in the form of "It can not be because there is nowhere like it does not describe" or "it can not be because it can never be" or "not maybe because I said so... "

Well, there you have the facts, interpreters - ten years after the events of the original "FMP!" mek has not been reduced to the same standard design:

"bad idea"
- germans abandoned the concept of its "Dragon" and built a sort of super-version of the "M9", but esulting terribly expensive ("Wolf")

- britons, it seem, to have decided to opt out of the traditional version of mecha and did a combination of AS and fighter ("Sypher") for rapid deployment and maximum mobility, but the armor and weapons were frankly weak
"bad idea"

"priorities change"
- yankee, running into production "M9", suddenly realized that agility is not a panacea for all and have commissioned a "heavy-armored" and "artillery" model of its third generation + tried to remake the "M6" in the heavily-armed support combat vehicles
"priorities change"

"further development of the concept"
- french concept of AS as a specific variant of conventional military equipment has been further developed in the form of "Arcenciel", not only to maintain the positive qualities of its predecessor, but also get an interesting feature of firing at multiple targets in different directions at the same time

- russian decided that magnificent "Shadow" for the elite troops, will not prevent support in the form of the army third generation AS, which became the "Sceptre"(created on the basis of "Savage"), which is only minimally meets the modern requirements of mobility and stealth as the main focus it placed on firepower, armor, duration work and adaptability to severe conditions (funny, but "Savages" from the same role is still an excellent job)
"further development of the concept"

"new thought"
- japanese decided to take the path of least resistance and the model of the third generation created based on a modular design that allows you to redo the exact same standard unit even in the long-range artillery, even in the intelligence, even in heavily-armored melee option ("Raven"). In addition, they created a hybrid of blade and firearms (CIWS EHI "Dragonfly")
"new thought"

It must be added to all listed, that in the standard arsenal of AS includes 76mm recoilless guns and multi-purpose missiles + some models use the "knightly" shields as additional armor...

In short, the concept of "good the AS, is one autocannon, one knife" in the regular troops safely forgotten (if ever it existed), instead there are several different ways...

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And if the issue is solved the author's will, then I ask the moderator to close the topic

[Arsarcana]

-Mit- to English translation: After getting roundly spanked by everybody I would like to have the last word and vomit out more irrelevancies without having to respond to any further challenges of my position.

on the example of "Seto Kaiba" from his disregard " uselessness maneuverability without at least missiles "and literally a religious belief that "Amalgam" = "Evil Soviet Union"...

Literally every time anybody mentions the origins of Amalgam's technology, they mention that all of it comes from the Soviet Union and that it's cutting-edge stuff. Amalgam sells surplus Soviet tech to make money (and the rubbish Mistral II to people who can't even afford that). Amalgam's activities benefit the Soviet Union. Connect the dots, it's not that hard.

As for the other half of your sentence, your inability to interpret English when it specifically discusses the advantages of AS that have maneuverability and how they're walking coffins when they can't dodge does not make your position correct.

In principle, more broadly, the main problem of this forum is that there is only accepted to discuss about the data from any subsidiary source to any of anime / manga series, and even then not all - in the case of "FMP!" its direct continuation "for Another" trying to declare a non-canon...

Discussion of anything within the rules is fair game, your problem is that you're very very bad at the 'discussion' part. And there's a difference between a direct continuation and a work that happens to take place after another set in the same universe. FMP Another is not written by the original author and contradicts things established in the original series.

...Does the attempt to speculate on the general theme or make an assumption about what something immediately encounter an obstacle in the form of "It can not be because there is nowhere like it does not describe" or "it can not be because it can never be" or "not maybe because I said so... "

Maybe if you could hold yourself to a single clearly defined topic and not meander all across the board depending on how badly your argument is getting demolished at any given time, you might find discussions more productive. In response to your specific question about the effectiveness of specific AS design philosophies, you were answered very simply: The Mistral II is crap, nothing else in its generation or after it used that style. In your broader questions, you were answered the exact same way by everyone: It depends. That you don't like the answers you recieved is your problem, not ours.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Following up on the flower themed mobile weapons, don't forget the still somewhat recent YAMS-132 Rozen Zulu, a purple/violet MS whose armor and weapons are shaped as roses.

[Kuruni]

There're also Farsia and Fawn Farsia from Age...likely because they're girly MS.

[Arsarcana]

I see all of you (except for the Blossom Sail, I think that wins) and raise you by one Hermodr from Super Robot Wars. 28 kilometer-long flower-flagship, beat that!

[Dark Duel]

Then there's the giant alien flower-thing in the 00 movie, though that's not, strictly speaking, a mecha in the conventional sense of the term.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm amazed F91's Lafressia hasn't been brought up yet.

... goodness, who could possibly forget the Ronah family's gigantic murder-flower, which was even named for the flower it was modeled on?

Reinforcement theory, ha? Well, this term, as the principle relationship to the facts, applicable to all present here the fans and fanatics who interpret all available information in a convenient they mean, even if there are opposite examples - on the example of "Seto Kaiba" from his disregard " uselessness maneuverability without at least missiles "and literally a religious belief that "Amalgam" = "Evil Soviet Union"...

Jesus H. Jetpacking (Kira) Yamato you're awfully fixated on attempted character assassination as a substitute for your lack of a counterargument. Give it up, mate... nobody here was buying it even before you started insulting them to their faces.

Virtually everything in the Full Metal Panic! universe emphasizes that maneuverability is a far, FAR greater asset to an AS than raw firepower. They don't have the armor to withstand anti-tank weaponry, so the best defense is to not get hit. That's where the Mistral II falls down, while the competition shines... it's slower, heavier, and less agile than its competition, and therefore a good deal less capable on the battlefield.

With respect to the connection between Amalgam and the Soviet Union, well... that much is very obviously spelled out on so many occasions that we'd be here all week were I to count them. It's stated, point-blank, that Amalgam benefits from the backing of the Soviet Union in the same way that MITHRIL benefits from the backing of NATO. Their equipment is all Soviet-made, they carry out covert weapons tests for the Soviets, they sell Soviet-made arms to many countries that are not NATO allies, and they've even been shown borrowing facilities and personnel from the Soviet KGB. Drawing the connection is child's play.

In principle, more broadly, the main problem of this forum is that there is only accepted to discuss about the data from any subsidiary source to any of anime / manga series, and even then not all - in the case of "FMP!" its direct continuation "for Another" trying to declare a non-canon...

The canonicity of FMP! Another is relevant, because it does diverge from the Full Metal Panic! timeline. You wouldn't cite tech specs and material from G-Saviour for a talk on Gundam's Universal Century...

"bad idea"
- germans abandoned the concept of its "Dragon" and built a sort of super-version of the "M9", but esulting terribly expensive ("Wolf")

... no they didn't. The Wolf, as described in Another! and Kanetake Ebikawa Design Works, inherited the Drache's tank-inspired emphasis on defensive strength. It's said to be possessed of high-strength composite armor and excellent frame rigidity that gives it top-notch resistance to anti-AS shells.

- britons, it seem, to have decided to opt out of the traditional version of mecha and did a combination of AS and fighter ("Sypher") for rapid deployment and maximum mobility, but the armor and weapons were frankly weak

I think you may be confusing that with something else... Britain's flight-capable AS is named the Highlander. (See Kanetake Ebikawa Design Works pg.130)

- yankee, running into production "M9", suddenly realized that agility is not a panacea for all and have commissioned a "heavy-armored" and "artillery" model of its third generation + tried to remake the "M6" in the heavily-armed support combat vehicles

That's actually inaccurate as well... the US Armed Forces initially went with an up-armored M9 (M9A1), but later went for an improved unit that restored the original super-high mobility that originally was the hallmark of the series (M9A2).

Mind you, it's also said that the mobility reduction in the M9A1 that was the result of adding the extra composite armor to resist 30mm anti-AS shells was not all that significant, reducing that incredible maneuverability to a level roughly comparable to the other 3rd Generation AS's.

- french concept of AS as a specific variant of conventional military equipment has been further developed in the form of "Arcenciel", not only to maintain the positive qualities of its predecessor, but also get an interesting feature of firing at multiple targets in different directions at the same time

The Arcenciel preserved the downsides of its predecessor as well as its positives... being a large metal coffin if the enemy gets close enough to engage it hand-to-hand, and insufficiently agile to fight in a head-on confrontation with any reliability. Its description identifies it as being suited to ambush tactics and hit-and-run tactics rather than a stand-up fight, and its design is credited as an effort to make it look scary rather than to maximize functionality.

Also, we've seen that AS's as far back as the 2nd Generation have had the ability to direct fire at multiple targets at once. That isn't new.

- russian decided that magnificent "Shadow" for the elite troops, will not prevent support in the form of the army third generation AS, which became the "Sceptre"(created on the basis of "Savage"), which is only minimally meets the modern requirements of mobility and stealth as the main focus it placed on firepower, armor, duration work and adaptability to severe conditions (funny, but "Savages" from the same role is still an excellent job)]

The Zy-99 Shadow is mentioned to be an extremely successful design... as much, if not more, than the Savage was. The Sceptre is said to have been produced in very limited numbers and being an extremely unsuccessful design, because its price tag is ruinously high.

- japanese decided to take the path of least resistance and the model of the third generation created based on a modular design that allows you to redo the exact same standard unit even in the long-range artillery, even in the intelligence, even in heavily-armored melee option ("Raven"). In addition, they created a hybrid of blade and firearms (CIWS EHI "Dragonfly")

... it's basically just a M9 with the modularity of equipment improved and performance diminished as a result. Indeed, its control system is even based on recovered M9 components left behind by MITHRIL. Its official description indicates that its performance is actually worse than the Zy-99's without the boosters, and that its saving grace is the arcjet engines that give it the ability to move unpredictably, foiling the predictive algorithms of AS fire control systems.

In short, the concept of "good the AS, is one autocannon, one knife" in the regular troops safely forgotten (if ever it existed), instead there are several different ways...

That was never the concept to begin with... check your facts, mate.

Practically every AS was equipped with a main weapon, a fallback weapon, close combat weapon, and various other sub-weapons. This is still true in Another!, though the forms of some of those weapons have changed somewhat. Carrying a bunch of heavy weaponry instead of a balanced load equivalent to a human soldier's is still seen as an inefficient way to do things even in Another as well. All the most successful AS designs do it.

[ShadowCell]

well this thread has gone splendidly

Mit, i know English is not your first language and perhaps that's the source of all this, but you really need to drop the abrasive attitude. it's legitimately unclear what you're trying to say.

now then, let's just close this thing