Transformable Naval Mobile Armors

[False Prophet]

(This argument does not cover amphibious MS, strictly aquatic-dedicated MA)

There are only a few MA that fit this bill like the OZ-08MMS Cancer and the GNMA-04B11 Trilobite, and you can see that there transformable sequences are simple compare to common transformable MS. But for what reasons must they be transformable? Transform under the depth is not an easy task - You have to take into account pressure, obstacles in the water, etc. They work just fine as an independent frigate/submarine without the frill?

I suppose the foremost reason is that these weapons are made to intercept amphibious MS, so that they must have the capability to counter the maneuverability of MS. However, why should having two, four or six arms (or a vaguely humanoid body) make it anymore better to deal with problems up close?

And if they want to make it travel fast and easily in the water, going strictly with aerodynamic laws would still be better.

Or, they can make something with fins...

Anyway, what is your opinion on these "abnormalities"?

[SonicSP]

At least in the case for the Trilobite and strictly so, it does seem to use its arms to intercept other mobile suits underwater and since pretty much all GN-based mobile suits in the 00 world can function well underwater, it's probably a more functional role for that purpose, it only lost out to Seravee in its episode because of Trans Am afterall. Also because it's melee weapons can penetrate GN Fields (important after the GN Field piercing missiles run out) so it's probabaly important to fight for to fight close combat if it was to fight GN-based ships or mobile suit that it might encounter.

The effectiveness of beam weapons is greatly reduced underwater, and beam weapons are the primary ranged based weapon in 00 later on. That kind means that after the missiles, the Trilobite kinda has to use close range combat since it has no beam weapons due to it being an underwater unit. Arms means that it can grapple mobile suits I guess or hold on to something while it stabs something repeatedly. Maybe even grab on to something to prevent it from escaping or holding on to it if it's a much larger vessel.

In the case of 00 suits, GN Particle technology seemingly makes things like underwater pressure to be less of an engineering challenge. For example, mobile suits like the Avalanche Exia uses GN Fields to streamline the air currents to optimized it's aerodynamics to my knowledge despite not being aerodynamically shaped (conventional mobile suits in 00 like the Flag are known to do something similar as well but with an electromagnetic field instead). Don't know whether that is applicable underwater but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something similar.

Even more standard GN-mobile suits like Arios can function and transform underwater perfectly fine and it wasn't it's primarily optimized environment which probabaly showcase how advanced the technology is. Things like the total "All Environment" adaptability of GN-mobile weapons were briefly mentioned in 2nd Mechanics and even observed and mentioned by Graham in the anime. So the drawbacks of having a transformable design in the case of the Trilobite was probably not too much that it was still worth adding in.

00 does have another conventional Non-GN naval transformable mobile armor called the Shuchai though that has arms. The explanations above don't apply because it's not using the same advanced GN technology and is even old by 00 world's normal pre-GN standards at the time. The official site profile mentions that it's mainly made to intercept mobile suits underwater so your inference agrees with the official explanation for this underwater mobile armor model at least.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Some quick comments:

First: the OZ-08MMS Cancer is a MS, not a MA. It certainly lacks legs, but essentially it is something along the lines of the incomplete MSN-02, the MS-09F/BN or the MS-21C.

Second: the "transformation" of the Cancer seems simply restricted to changing the position of its arms and changing the direction the main body faces, which is rather simplistic if you ask me and certainly not much different from the "non-transformable" MSM-07 Grublo simply moving its claws around. As it stands the MAM-07 and perhaps the MAM-07-X3 are closer to what you are looking for.

Finally, I do would suggest giving a second look to some amphibious MS: besides the unusual case of the Cancer, units like the Zock or Goohn certainly feel more like marine units that were given makeshift arms and legs, giving them the minimum characteristics to be classified as MS and a limited capacity to operate on land. IIRC, the Zock in particular is commonly considered a pseudo MA. Either way, both units seem to make little use of their MS traits while underwater and are rather meant to operate as marine MAs, unlike some more melee oriented units like the Z'gok or Zno.

[False Prophet]

The Grublo in action:

Spoiler

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u42 ... vua9lq.jpg
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u42 ... ngr8sw.jpg
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u42 ... f3tbxc.jpg
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u42 ... g9ajcb.jpg

It didn't do that bad before getting trashed by Atlas Gundam. And when did it get a Particle Cannon?

Hmm... From your comments, I may have to think about the whole "Cruise mode" thing. The name may beg the question, but does it really mean the aforementioned setting (limbs retracted) mean that the aforementioned mode is not meant to be how the unit would go into combat underwater? If not, then does it means a MA.

[Ferrus_Manus]

I think that this Grublo is a new version.

[Gelgoog Jager]

I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that comic. I do know that the Grublo is supposed to be based on the Bigro, and if you think about it, it's almost an underwater version of the Bigro. As such, iIRC it was supposed to have a phonon maser (underwater equivalent of a laser) replacing the Bigro's mega particle beam cannon. I don't remember why it was said that ultimately this didn't happen, but the Grublo was essentially rolled out without that weapon.

I guess it's possible that later on a surviving unit could have been upgraded with one, after all, we are told that the MSM-10 Zock, essentially the last amphibious MS developed at California Base, has one on its head beam gun. The Zock has its phonon maser on its head so that while in crusing mode, the Zock swims with the top of its head at the front, therefore having its phonon maser aiming at anything in front of it while crusing underwater. On the other hand, my guess is that just how mega particle beam weapons perform poorly underwater, the same is probably true for phonon masers used outside water bodies. The beam weapons of the Goohn and Zno are also described as phonon masers.

Crusing mode indeed refer to the mode in which units like Gogg or Hygogg retract their arms and legs and move horizontally while underwater. As mentioned in the example of the Zock's phonon maser, some units have weapons that seem meant to be used in such position, such as the chest missile launchers of the MSM-01 or the head missile launchers of the Z'gok types, both of which can attack targets in front of the MS. Weapons on the torso, such as the Gogg's torpedoes and mega particle cannons seem to be intended to be used against targets they pass along, for example ships on the surface or planes in the air (such as Sayla's G-Fighter/Core Booster).

And as you also pointed out, in order to attack with their other weapons or with melee attacks, a MS needs to abandon its crusing mode and adopt a different (usually vertical or at least diagonal) posture.

[BrentD15]

Am I the only one that refers to the "Grublo" as the "Grabro" anymore because I see "Grublo" as "Engrish"?

[Seto Kaiba]

Am I the only one that refers to the "Grublo" as the "Grabro" anymore because I see "Grublo" as "Engrish"?

Honestly, "Grabro" is how I would read the kana... グラブロ.

[Amion]

I always called it the Grabro. When did we get this switch?

[Seto Kaiba]

I always called it the Grabro. When did we get this switch?

Dunno, the Japanese wiki is spelling it Grublo.

[BrentD15]

I always called it the Grabro. When did we get this switch?

Dunno, the Japanese wiki is spelling it Grublo.

Someone at Bandai probably goofed and called it "Grublo" instead, and nobody bothered correcting the error.

[Gelgoog Jager]

Not sure if canon, but there's also the MAM-11 Rock from MSV90:

http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msv90/mam-11.htm