The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

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Zeonista
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

The Rick Dom showed up earlier than expected, but you won't see me criticizing its appearance! :D I am looking forward to seeing the "Psycho Zaku" and the Gundam Thunderbolt itself in the next installment.

Most of the Thunderbolt MS design is very much in the style of 0080 or 08th Platoon in terms of taking the old standards and updating them while adding specific details for the story or some refinements that seem useful post-original series. One could put MS from all three anime in the same screenshot and it wouldn't look odd.

On a more personal technical note, the Zeon vets with the prosthetic limbs show some applied research into current development. (I've seen enough of them in the past decade for it to be a noteworthy detail.) It is certain that in the UC era any military medical facility could mimic current U.S. military capabilities of saving almost any inured soldier that reached them alive. At the same time, a lot of soldiers would survive with crippling injuries instead of dying, hence the need for replacement limbs, even if they are not as fancy as the MS-derived prosthetics being developed in Side 6. The suggestion of human soldiers coming to resemble their MS is food for thought, no doubt as intended. ;)
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balofo
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Zaku I changes from the promo pic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXCh-qjWAAAzEXx.jpg:orig
-sub-arm is now on top of the backpack instead of under.
-crackers are stored on the rear waist instead of side waist.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

balofo wrote:Zaku I changes from the promo pic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXCh-qjWAAAzEXx.jpg:orig
-sub-arm is now on top of the backpack instead of under.
-crackers are stored on the rear waist instead of side waist.
-----
It's a bit more optimal for a Zaku I acting as a gunner here. The arm is in a more helpful position, and the crackers are still within reach, but not in a position where they could bump against the beam cannon and cause an accident.
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False Prophet
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

MS mount their rifles when they're not in use, instead of men who lugging them with slings - so why does beam rifle has carrying handle?

Beam rifles don't seem like they're free of recoil, right? And while most of them doesn't mount an optic and instead relying on the MS' sensors alone, I still don't see the merit of carrying handle.

Oh, and does anyone know anything about the Atlas Gundam?
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Trying to fit the Thunderbolt designs with the rest of the UC units, I want to explore what relationship they hold with other machines sharing similar concepts:

-First, for the additional manipulator arm we have the MS-06MP Manipulation System Type Zaku II, which has four manipulator arms. Supposedly used for the construction of Solar Ray:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-06MP_Ma ... pe_Zaku_II

-The large backpack propellant tank is probably based on those seen on units like the MS-06R2 and MS-14B, which are among the units with largest such tanks.

-Then there's the external propellant tanks, which could be traced back to several machines, including the MS-06R-1A, MS-09R2, MS-14C-1A and MS-14F, among others. There's also the somewhat obscure MS-06 Zaku II Propellant Unit Type:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/MS-06_Zaku ... lant_Unit)

Of all these examples, the round propellant tanks of the MS-09R2 and MS-14F are the most similar ones.

-The protective cloth on the MS limbs is not unseen, though I think it's the first time it's used specifically for debris. Units that used (or at least supposedly used) such gear include the MS-05B units used for biological attacks (08th MS team flashback), the MS-06C units which supposedly had NBC protection, much like the aforementioned Zaku I, the MS-06 Cold Climate Zaku II from Gihren's Greed. Perhaps not quite cloth, but I think the seals on the joints of the MS-06D and MS-06M also fit the bill.

-Recent works have given us an increasing amount of sniper type weapons for Zeon units, such as the anti-ship rifle from The Origin which is supposedly featured in the newest 0083 drama. The HGUC Zudah also includes a large 135mm anti-ship rifle. The MS-05L is supposedly a design cooked up at California Base, yet the concept between this unit and the Zeon tactics at the Thunderbolt sector could suggest a relationship. Lastly there's the Skiure, which is another MS operated beam weapon turret.

-Finally, there's the large number of verniers, for which I think the units from Gundam 0080 are probably the ones coming closest to having so many verniers.

Taking into account these, I think we can try to make some assumptions:

-The recent addition of the YMS-09R2 (based on the Dom Funf/Dom Tropen) can serve as a good excuse for justifying the TB version of the Rick Dom, which has MS-09F shoulders and a single MS-09R2 propellant tank.

-The TB Zaku II could probably be traced to the first MS-06R units which featured the large propellant tank on the backpack, while the higher number of verniers could be seen as an improvement over the MS-06S, which recent incarnations show as having at least 10 verniers on the legs. As a side note, I would like to see the lessons from these TB MS applied to other units, such as the MS-06FZ, which is said to be lacking on the propellant capacity department.

-I have already mentioned the weapons that could be related to the Big Gun, but as an extra I would like to mention the Jormungand: a plasma beam cannon designed for sinking even the EF's Magellan battleships in one shot from beyond their battle range. The Big Gun could be seen as an evolution of this concept, now targeting the EF MS, which have become the new threat for Zeon forces, and operated by MS instead of engineers in normal suits, so they can counter the EF's MS in case of an emergency.
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FinalSin66
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

So yeah......a Dolos underwater.......


http://blogs.c.yimg.jp/res/blog-8d-e6/s ... 1451317312
Last edited by FinalSin66 on Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Xenosynth
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Seems to be working for me? I think someone else had mentioned about the Dolos being converted for underwater use in an earlier post.
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Deacon Blues
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

I'm still trying to figure out how it manages not to get crushed by the oceanic pressure.
Xenosynth
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Or even under gravity. I have to imagine the Dolos is built as a space exclusive vessel, so how would you even get one down to earth without it breaking up? Let alone stealthily enough that the EFF would not notice the behemoth coming down
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Deathzealot
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

In pieces of course.
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

LOL, wouldn't it be amusing if it turned to be The Origin version of the Dolos which is several kilometers long and which can house entire Musais inside it? In this case it would be able to fit Jukon submarines instead.

Anyway, I agree that sending it in pieces to Earth is the most likely way to ship it, but I'm rather curious on where it was actually assembled. On the other hand, perhaps Zeon did learn some lessons after their failed attempt to send a Gwazine to Earth and figured out a way to do it right, perhaps using the Minovsky Craft system developed on the later half of the war.
domino
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Interesting to see the Psycho Zaku anime version has been equipped with a beam bazooka in Episode 3
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Giving the Psycho Zaku a beam bazooka is not that strange if we take a good look at some outstanding examples:

In the Gundam Evolve episode about ZZ Gundam we also saw some MS-06F units equipped with beam bazookas. Then there's the YMS-08B, of which there are two versions including one modified from a MS-06 body, whose HGUC model kits includes the beam bazooka as its standard weapon.

Considering that nowadays we know that the key characteristic of the MS-09RS is that its able to supplement the generator of its beam bazooka in order to increase its rate of fire (not being necessary to operate it), and in turn indicating that a standard MS-09R can operate the same weapon, I think we can safely assume that other MS with low output generators can also use it.

However, given the size of the weapon (which most likely is also translated into a large weight) I think that it's still largely meant to be used by units with enough thrust to compensate for the extra weight, as in the case of high mobility Zakus or Dom types, or as in the case of the MS-06F from Gundam Evolve, to be used by units with a SFS or other means to supplement their movement, which is more or less the concept behind the Skiure.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Well I didn't say it was strange....I said it was interesting. It wasn't included in the manga which only equipped him with solid-state weaponry

Good rundown of the use of the beam bazooka though.

It's clear that the Psycho Zaku fits into the tier of MS that can't power the beam bazooka since Darryl apparently discards it after using up all of the "ammo" on the Feddie ships.

I'm looking forward to him using the rest of his arsenal against Io and the Gundam in a full-on firefight.
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Rawinder wrote:I'm clearly out of the loop as I hadn't even heard of Thunderbolt before the anime announcement!

Anyone know what the deal with the FA-78 in this is? Is it meant to be a modern/updated version of the old MSV FA-78-1 Full Armor?
Seems this FA-78 is an improved variant that is closer to the Heavy Gundam 2nd (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msv-r/fa-78-2.htm) in performance OR the backpack compensates for the speed and handling issues of the original FA Gundam types.

I reckon that the larger backback on the FA-78 also includes a sub-generator to power the backpack's beam cannon
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Gelgoog Jager
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

domino wrote:It's clear that the Psycho Zaku fits into the tier of MS that can't power the beam bazooka since Darryl apparently discards it after using up all of the "ammo" on the Feddie ships.
Actually, the beam bazooka can't "run out of ammo" since the generator is feeding the energy directly for each shot. However, the weapon could overheat or the barrel could wear down. I'm inclined to think that in this case it overheated, specially given the case of the MS-09RS (see below).

I do agree that the Psycho Zaku doesn't seem to be able to supplement the output of its beam bazooka, at least based on the few animated examples of that weapon:

-In the 0081 OVA a MS-09R picks up the beam bazooka of a fallen MS-09RS and is seen firing individual beam shots, similar to the Psycho Zaku.
-In the PS3 game Encounters In space, there's a cutscene showing Gato's MS-09RS taking down EF forces at Solomon with its beam bazooka, and we can observe how he's able to fire long continuous beams that can be moved around (almost like a giant beam saber).

In short, a beam bazooka works pretty much like a large beam rifle when operated by a MS uncapable to supplement the weapon's in-built generator, but becomes capable of firing continuous beam when operated by machine with a powerful enough generator capable of providing additional output for doing so.

Back to the Psycho Zaku, I just want to point out that I'm glad that more MS-06R-2 units are appearing in the UC canon. We constantly see more Gundams added like there's no tomorrow (which also takes away merit from the original RX-78-2 being the EF's one of a kind prototype), but it's not always that we see more of some of Zeon's prototypes, or at the very least more Gelgoogs which were supposed to be the answer to the Gundam.

I hope we get to see more MS-06R-2 units animated in the future, such as Kurt Roswell's unit:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:06R-2_Kurt.jpg

As, well as some other Zeon MS such as the Gyan, Zock, Kampfer, Xamel, Gouf Flight Type (MS-07H8), etc.
domino wrote:Seems this FA-78 is an improved variant that is closer to the Heavy Gundam 2nd (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/msv-r/fa-78-2.htm) in performance OR the backpack compensates for the speed and handling issues of the original FA Gundam types.

I reckon that the larger backback on the FA-78 also includes a sub-generator to power the backpack's beam cannon
In the black and white lineart of this image, you can read FA-78X on the chest of the Gundam:

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/File:FA-78 ... Gundam.jpg

If the EF fixed the problems of the FA-78-1 and managed to produce such machine, shouldn't they have given it to Amuro instead, or at least send him a set of components to to turn his Gundam into a FA Gundam as well? It seems odd that if they managed to produce a machine which such high acceleration, which was more or less what they were seeking to achieve with the G-3 and Alex, that they wouldn't attempt to give it to their own Newtype which they assumed do could make the most out of such machine.

Another minor issue I have is that supposedly we were told that GMs didn't include a escape system due to cost reduction measures, but in this OVA it seem that the first GMs have a similar construction as the first RX units equipped with core fighters, given that the top and bottom halves of these GMs purged in an emergency seem to follow more or less the same design.

I do applaud that there has finally been given a use to the extra chest space of earlier Zaku II units, which supposedly only use one of the two sides of the chest area for the cockpit. In the first episode we see how they can be used as hatch or attachment point for vehicles such as the custom Gattles which allow pilots to move in and out of their MS, most likely even if they aren't wearing a normal suit, which could come in handy during emergencies.

That being said, given what Io says about the Rick Dom's cockpit resembling a Zaku's, I wonder if these units are part of Zeon's United Maintenance Plan (UMP)?
domino
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Gelgoog Jager wrote: Actually, the beam bazooka can't "run out of ammo" since the generator is feeding the energy directly for each shot. However, the weapon could overheat or the barrel could wear down. I'm inclined to think that in this case it overheated, specially given the case of the MS-09RS (see below).
Note that I wrote run out of "ammo" (quotation marks included) - according to the tech journals, the beam bazooka has a cool-down time so that's what I was referring to. It doesn't seem like the bazooka fired enough shots or had enough targets for it to overheat....but who knows. We don't even see it being discarded. It just disappears from the scene. Maybe next episode...
Gelgoog Jager wrote: If the EF fixed the problems of the FA-78-1 and managed to produce such machine, shouldn't they have given it to Amuro instead, or at least send him a set of components to to turn his Gundam into a FA Gundam as well? It seems odd that if they managed to produce a machine which such high acceleration, which was more or less what they were seeking to achieve with the G-3 and Alex, that they wouldn't attempt to give it to their own Newtype which they assumed do could make the most out of such machine.
That's the decades-old question behind the G-3 and other advanced variants of the RX-78 but there's always an in-universe reason just as there was one with the Alex (NT-1). The Heavy Gundam is the successor to the Full Armour Gundam though - and both share the same serial number of FA-78 so the nameplate doesn't tell us much besides that it's either an improved model or a model which benefits from the optional backpack equipment to achieve the prolonged high performance that we witness. That's what I was suggesting above.
Gelgoog Jager wrote: Another minor issue I have is that supposedly we were told that GMs didn't include a escape system due to cost reduction measures, but in this OVA it seem that the first GMs have a similar construction as the first RX units equipped with core fighters, given that the top and bottom halves of these GMs purged in an emergency seem to follow more or less the same design.
These GMs appeared to have been modified for the Moore Brotherhood including the inclusion of the backpacks with manipulator arms for using additional shields as protection when navigating the debris fields. Apparently the core block (not necessarily a core fighter) system was added to also provide added survivability. Note that the replacement GM Cannons haven't shown any evidence of also being equipped with core block systems - they also lack the addition of manipulator arms.
Gelgoog Jager wrote: That being said, given what Io says about the Rick Dom's cockpit resembling a Zaku's, I wonder if these units are part of Zeon's United Maintenance Plan (UMP)?
Most likely according to the rationale provided in 0080 anime
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domtropen
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

The beam bazooka is discarded right around 12:43-45 and Daryl switches to giant bazooka instead.
domino
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Re: The Official Gundam Thunderbolt Mecha Thread Mk I

Ah yes, you're right. He discards it right after using the Zaku machinegun on the ship.

Interesting that Darryl didn't see the need to let it "recharge/cool down" so he could use it again later.
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