The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

The future is now. This is the place for mecha and science.

Moderators: ShadowCell, Heretic, mcred23, EZero8, Draco Starcloud, SNT1, Kenji

Post Reply
User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:15 pm

pirx wrote:They could be working on technological replacement for Heinz, which would eliminate their need in Wind Singer altogether.
Unlikely, IMO... some dialog between Freyja and Reina earlier in the series established that you can't reproduce biological fold wave effects from a recording. If they were gonna replace him, I'd wager it would be by capturing Freyja and forcing her to sing the Song of the Wind (ala Grace and Ranka way back in the Macross Frontier series).




Dark Duel wrote:Still need to watch the latest episode, but my main question right now pertains to Hayate and the VF-31.
SpoilerShow
As by now I'm sure we all know(though I'm spoiler-tagging it just in case), in Ep13 Hayate's VF-31J was destroyed, and he soon afterward "borrowed" the late Messer's VF-31F.
This in itself amuses me because of the "Delta-02" and "Delta-04" markings on the -31F and Mirage's -31C, which is the inverse of their respective callsigns in that sortie(Mirage as "Delta 2", Hayate being addressed as "Delta 4") - but that's immaterial.

My main question, really, is whether Hayate will continue to operate the -31F(which I think is likely), and whether it will retain its black color scheme and "Grim Reaper" markings, or whether its color scheme will be changed to reflect its new pilot. The latter, while IMO fairly unlikely, is not entirely unprecedented - a machine being recolored after passing on to a new pilot has happened before, IIRC.

I'm biased, because I liked the blue/purple color match between the -31F and -31C, which I felt was a nice callback to the blue/red color pairing of Mirage's grandparents. So I would prefer to see the -F sporting a blue color scheme. But honestly, the black/purple color match works fine too, so I'd be happy either way.
I'm really mainly just curious as to what y'all think.
SpoilerShow
My suspicion, given how prominently Hayate's VF-31J features in the merchandising and the advertising for the series, is that Kaos will either just happen to have another VF-31J kicking around (the way the Macross seemed to have several VF-1J's for Hikaru) and they'll repaint that in Hayate's now-distinctive livery... or Messer's VF-31F will receive a new monitor turret and new paintjob so it's effectively converted into a VF-31J.

Though it would be rather amusing for Hayate to continue rustling Keith's jimmies by flying the Grim Reaper everywhere.

Dark Duel wrote:One other comment: much as I like the -31J's almost Nirvash-esque head design, I do also think the -31F has a really interesting head design - Looked somewhat asymmetrical, which you don't see that often IMO.
The VF-31F's cameras kind of bother me, the texture looks really cheap. But I've never gotten the impression it was asymmetrical... asymmetry in Valkyrie monitor turrets is RARE.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

User avatar
Dark Duel
Determined Shonen Hero
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:03 pm

Taking a closer look at it, it looks like you're right - that's my bad. It looked somewhat asymmetrical to me, but it does appear that it was a mistake on my part, probably due to just how that particular head design looks compared to the others. It does, to me, look kinda odd for some reason I can't quite put my finger on.
And thinking back, off the top of my head I can't actually think of any Macross VFs that I personally have seen that did have any asymmetry in the battroid head design.
Last edited by Dark Duel on Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:10 pm

Dark Duel wrote:Taking a closer look at it, it looks like you're right - that's my bad. It looked somewhat asymmetrical to me, but it does appear that it was a mistake on my part, probably due to just how that particular head design looks compared to the others. It does, to me, look kinda odd for some reason I can't quite put my finger on.

I think it's that weird layered design of the eyes...



Dark Duel wrote:And thinking back, off the top of my head I can't actually think of any Macross VFs that I personally have seen that did have any asymmetry in the battroid head design.

There have been a few thus far:

VF-3000S Crusader: 2 small-bore lasers on the left side, 1 large-bore laser on the right.
VF-XS Valkyrie II: The concept design for the VF-2SS had one beam cannon on the right side of the head and a sensor of some sort on the left.
VF-17T Custom Nightmare: Ray Lovelock's VF-17T had a custom head with asymmetrical detailing above the left eye.
YF-25 Prophecy: Had a laser machinegun on one side of the head, an antenna on the other, and the arrangement of sensors inside the clear "bubble" of the face is asymmetrical too.


A few VFs have had asymmetrical battroid modes as a result of their transformations... mostly the General Galaxy early generations like the VF-9 and VF-14.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

User avatar
Red Zaku
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Where-ever I happen to be when I'm there.
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Red Zaku » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:40 pm

A little off-topic but still in the realm of Modern Macross, since the story mode of Macross 30 is canon to the series....

https://s32.postimg.org/d7zc65lid/NUNS_VF_27.png

In what quantity has NUNS been fielding the VF-27? Because holy hell, that think looks beautiful in NUNS colors.
"I'M THE CRIMSON LIGHTNING DAMNIT!" - Johnny Ridden

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:21 pm

Red Zaku wrote: https://s32.postimg.org/d7zc65lid/NUNS_VF_27.png

In what quantity has NUNS been fielding the VF-27? Because holy hell, that think looks beautiful in NUNS colors.
Well... strictly speaking, the Macross Galaxy fleet VF-27s are also in New UN Spacy colors. It's much easier to see on the olive green VF-27β's that were Galaxy's grunt fighters, but all of the Galaxy fleet VF-27s have the New UN Spacy emblem prominently displayed on their right wing.

(Macross Galaxy was a corporation rather than an elected government, but as a de facto fleet government its private army was still considered a local New UN Forces command the same as any other military raised and maintained by the local governments of an emigrant fleet or planet.)

As far as how widespread adoption of the VF-27 is, I would expect "not very".

The reason for that being that the VF-27 is a craft that suffers from what you might call a crippling case of overspecialization. Plus it can only be operated to its full potential by a military-grade full-body cyborg... and those are restricted or illegal in most of the galaxy. Havamal, of course, didn't give a toss about little things like laws being a New UN Spacy Special Forces independent special command and rogue to boot.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

nacho-wan
Pilot's Doomed Girlfriend
Posts: 414
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:40 pm
Location: A galaxy far far away...

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by nacho-wan » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:06 am

Seto Kaiba wrote:(...)

Windermere was discovered in 2027 by Megaroad-04, and by 2037 the average fleet strength of an emigrant world was 73 ships. Emigrant worlds have the means to build their own new warships for their own defense, and many fleets possess the means as well without even needing a planet. The fleet that discovered Ragna was one of the initial New Macross-class emigrant ships (it has to have been either Macross-1 or Macross-2 based on design) and those didn't go anywhere without a fleet of well over a hundred warships of various classes. Macross-7 had a fleet of 194 ships, and it was one of the smaller ones! Some of those fleets led by New Macross-class ships had more than one Battle-class supercarrier with them. If it was Macross-1 that found Ragna, then its defense fleet ought to have FOUR Battle-class supercarriers chilling in orbit. Even if the fleet was split up and used to colonize four different worlds, that's still one Battle-class for each.

Where the hell did those fleets go?

Windermere only seems to have two or three dozen warships to its name... and a good number of those seem to have been lost to Major Valan's reaction warhead. The New UN Spacy ought to be more than capable of curbstomping the Aerial Knights even without the intervention of the federal forces.

Yet somehow Macross Elysion is presented as being the most powerful warship Ragna has, despite being almost comically weak compared to the Battle-class ships. (...)
Sometimes the easiest explanation is the most likely, so I'll say that the military assets of the Colony fleet were moved to other place because they were more needed in that place than to guard a recently founded colony. Whatever was left to guard the place got blown during the Winderemere's independence war and were never replaced because this is a backlog part of the galaxy and military resources are being used in other hot spots.
Aun cuando mil millones de personas acepten una idea absurda, sigue siendo absurda.
Although a thousand million people accept an absurd idea, it still is an absurd idea
-Henry I. Miller

User avatar
Red Zaku
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: Where-ever I happen to be when I'm there.
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Red Zaku » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:45 am

nacho-wan wrote:
Seto Kaiba wrote:(...)

Windermere was discovered in 2027 by Megaroad-04, and by 2037 the average fleet strength of an emigrant world was 73 ships. Emigrant worlds have the means to build their own new warships for their own defense, and many fleets possess the means as well without even needing a planet. The fleet that discovered Ragna was one of the initial New Macross-class emigrant ships (it has to have been either Macross-1 or Macross-2 based on design) and those didn't go anywhere without a fleet of well over a hundred warships of various classes. Macross-7 had a fleet of 194 ships, and it was one of the smaller ones! Some of those fleets led by New Macross-class ships had more than one Battle-class supercarrier with them. If it was Macross-1 that found Ragna, then its defense fleet ought to have FOUR Battle-class supercarriers chilling in orbit. Even if the fleet was split up and used to colonize four different worlds, that's still one Battle-class for each.

Where the hell did those fleets go?

Windermere only seems to have two or three dozen warships to its name... and a good number of those seem to have been lost to Major Valan's reaction warhead. The New UN Spacy ought to be more than capable of curbstomping the Aerial Knights even without the intervention of the federal forces.

Yet somehow Macross Elysion is presented as being the most powerful warship Ragna has, despite being almost comically weak compared to the Battle-class ships. (...)
Sometimes the easiest explanation is the most likely, so I'll say that the military assets of the Colony fleet were moved to other place because they were more needed in that place than to guard a recently founded colony. Whatever was left to guard the place got blown during the Winderemere's independence war and were never replaced because this is a backlog part of the galaxy and military resources are being used in other hot spots.
http://imgur.com/LxuS82y

Actually there were 3 Battle Class ships present at El Shashar, and that entire fleet was lost when the Wind Singer infected them with Var.
"I'M THE CRIMSON LIGHTNING DAMNIT!" - Johnny Ridden

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:38 pm

Red Zaku wrote:http://imgur.com/LxuS82y

Actually there were 3 Battle Class ships present at El Shashar, and that entire fleet was lost when the Wind Singer infected them with Var.
Those are Uraga-class escort carriers... they look vaguely similar to a Battle-class when viewed from the front, but they're less than 1/3 the size, don't transform, and have no macross cannon.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:22 pm

Although I'm not too surprised that the VF-22S is still being used as a special forces unit for NUNS. Even though I kind of expected the VF-27 to take its place. But maybe the stealth features (I think?) made it useful for special operations? The fact that the VF-27 requires cyborg specialization probably omits it from the special forces role.

I'm guessing that the VF-22S could still be a match for the modern fighters considering its high specs and possible internal/external upgrades within the last decade.

ChaoticSheep1
AEUG Slapping Boy
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:37 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by ChaoticSheep1 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:19 am

I could imagine the VF-25 being used as a black ops use only fighter due to its illegality.

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:31 am

yazi88 wrote:Although I'm not too surprised that the VF-22S is still being used as a special forces unit for NUNS. Even though I kind of expected the VF-27 to take its place. But maybe the stealth features (I think?) made it useful for special operations? The fact that the VF-27 requires cyborg specialization probably omits it from the special forces role. [...]
Yeah, after Macross the Ride I wasn't at all surprised to see the VF-22S Sturmvogel II was still in service with the local New UN Spacy special forces. The VF-22 was still a pretty potent plane in 2058, as FASCES demonstrated when they nicked an experimental upgraded VF-22 from General Galaxy.

Stealth-wise, the VF-22 might look like it ought to have excellent stealth performance... but in actuality it's only on par with the VF-19. It just places more importance on passive stealth, where the 2nd VF-19 mass production family and later export variants all went in for significantly improved active stealth instead. The 5th Generation VFs all went for active stealth as well, but they're every bit as stealthy (if not moreso) than the VF-22.

The VF-27's never going to be a widely-adopted plane for a couple reasons. Macross Galaxy never actually disclosed the specs for the production VF-27 to the New UN Government as required by galaxy law, so it never officially made it out of the prototype phase. (It's still officially designated YF-27 as far as the New UN Gov't is concerned.) There's the problem of needing to be a full-body military-grade cyborg to pilot one to its full potential... which is expensive, messy, and ethically problematic enough that most governments won't do it (and it may also be illegal in much of the galaxy). Plus the VF-27 is not a particularly well-rounded aircraft... it's a superb dogfighter, but that's about all that can be said for it.


yazi88 wrote:I'm guessing that the VF-22S could still be a match for the modern fighters considering its high specs and possible internal/external upgrades within the last decade.
Depends what you mean by "modern"...

Any 5th Generation variable fighter is going to absolutely blow the VF-22S Sturmvogel II into the weeds. They're on a totally different level, thanks to the introduction of Inertia Store Converter technology, the more efficient and powerful Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines, and various other improvements like EX-Gear, the ASWAG advanced energy conversion armor, etc. The 5th Generation VF with the lowest performance has almost three times the thrust-to-weight ratio of the VF-22S... that's the Frontier fleet's VF-25 Messiah. It only goes up from there... in ascending order: the VF-31, VF-27, YF-30, and YF-29, though the VF-24 is implied to be almost as potent as the YF-29 but lacks official specs at this time.

On the other hand, compared to the 4th Generation main variable fighter which was old but still the standard back in 2060 - and is still the main fighter of the local New UN Spacy forces in the Brisingr cluster - the VF-22 Sturmvogel II's actually quite high-spec. Mind you, NOT being obscenely high-spec was kind of the whole point of the VF-171, which ended up as "next main fighter" after plans to adopt the VF-19 and VF-22 for widespread deployment were scrubbed because early training flights proved that average pilots couldn't handle the excessive maneuverability. The VF-22's thrust-to-weight ratio is a little less than twice that of the stock VF-171, and about 30% better than the Frontier fleet's improved version (VF-171EX).
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

Henyo
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:24 am
Location: Hidden Tramo Village

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:03 am

ya know, I've been wondering. how long does a Valkyrie model stay in service? are there any other major factors for it aside from advancement of technology? I mean, it's only been 8 years since VF-25. we're already at model 31. did models 28-30 remain as prototypes?

maybe i shoudn't have included mode 30. the VF-31 does use some of its features. :?
MOOK: ITS A YURI FANBOY!

User avatar
Dark Duel
Determined Shonen Hero
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:24 am

Well, let's review what we've seen so far:

In the case of the YF-30, we know that it was used to develop the VF-31s - it's the same situation as the YF-21 being used to develop the VF-22, similar IMO to the real-life example of the prototype YF-17 being used to develop the F/A-18.

As per Delta's most recent episode, we know that the aforementioned VF-22 was still in limited service as a spec-ops unit as recently as 2060 or so - which would put it in service for around 15-20 years, since IIRC that machine first appeared in Plus(IIRC, circa 2040) as the prototype YF-21, and then in 7(circa 2045) as the VF-22.

As for the VF-27, I got the impression that it was used exclusively and in limited numbers by the Galaxy Fleet; that, and apart from the out-of-universe reason that it's a villain unit, in-universe you also run into the issue that it is way too high-spec to be suitable for mass-production.
The YF-29 I assume runs into a similar problem - too high-performance to be a suitable mass-produced unit.

As for the VF-25...well, in Frontier it was used IIRC exclusively by SMS, which is a PMC. The NUNS's main mass-production unit was the VF-171, which is still the case in Delta, eight years later. Additionally, the -171 is itself an upgraded version of the VF-17, which was already entering/in service as of the 2040s.
So probably, the NUNS decided not to adopt the -25(if it was even under consideration) and retained the -171.

The question I have is why an upgraded -17 is being used instead of the VF-19, which started being mass-produced/entering service around the 2040s as well.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Wingnut
Hot-blooded Gattai
Posts: 6874
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:44 pm
Location: Detroit, MI
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Wingnut » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:29 am

Dark Duel wrote:The question I have is why an upgraded -17 is being used instead of the VF-19, which started being mass-produced/entering service around the 2040s as well.
I think the in-universe answer is that the -19s are too high spec for the average schmuck grunt to handle. IRL, Kawamori didn't like the idea of the -19 being the often shot up grunt so the -171 was created.
The Gundam wiki

"Reality makes a crappy special effects crew." - Adam Savage

R.I.P., SDGO.

User avatar
azrael
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1022
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:28 pm

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by azrael » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:55 pm

Henyo wrote:ya know, I've been wondering. how long does a Valkyrie model stay in service? are there any other major factors for it aside from advancement of technology? I mean, it's only been 8 years since VF-25. we're already at model 31. did models 28-30 remain as prototypes?

maybe i shoudn't have included mode 30. the VF-31 does use some of its features. :?
It depends on a variety of factors. Who is using it, or which service branch is using it, Was it upgraded at some point? How much do these fighters cost? Did production ever end? Etc.

While production of the VF-1 ended back in 2015, it was still upgraded through the years with the VF-1X being used in the field in the 2050s. Even by Delta, the VF-1 was still being updated to the VF-1EX update which added EX-Gear into the VF-1 user interface. Production of the VF-11 started when the VF-4 and VF-5000 were still being produced and didn't end until around the late 2040s/early 2050s. When we get to the VF-19, that's when we see export models rolled out. When we get to the YF-24-family, we start seeing more individualization among models. The VF-171 is the likely the last VF we will see that is universally adopted by all planetary forces. Here on out, individual worlds may adopt their own variant of a modern VF adapted to their needs. The VF-25 is being tested as a replacement for Frontier's forces. The VF-27 was also being tested as a replacement but for Galaxy's forces. The VF-31 may likely be a replacement but for Ragnan's armed forces. This is why we are seeing different fighters in such a shorter time span. While the fighters are based off the YF-24, they are tailored for that region's needs, hence it becomes a new model. VF-19s, VF-22s, and all other models still exist out there and are in-service, but we're going to see more VFs that are tailored for the needs of those regions of space.
"I dislike death indeed, but there is that which I dislike more than death, and therefore there are occasions when I will not avoid danger."

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:10 pm

Henyo wrote:ya know, I've been wondering. how long does a Valkyrie model stay in service? are there any other major factors for it aside from advancement of technology? I mean, it's only been 8 years since VF-25. we're already at model 31. did models 28-30 remain as prototypes?

maybe i shoudn't have included mode 30. the VF-31 does use some of its features. :?
That's a simple question with a fairly complex answer...

The typical lifespan of a "Main Variable Fighter" with the (New) UN Forces is about 15-20 years, but those aircraft can stay in service in decreasing numbers for decades afterward as supplements to a new main variable fighter, as training aircraft, or simply because some emigrant planet somewhere has a budget crunch and can't be arsed to upgrade.

Let's look at the original VF-1 Valkyrie as an example. Its run as the UN Spacy's main VF was from 2008 to 2020, though for the last five years or so of that time period it was effectively sharing that role with the VF-4 Lightning III and several other low-cost variable fighters that were produced for emigrant fleets (like the VF-5). After being retired from the main variable fighter role, it stayed to serve in a variety of roles for which other, newer models weren't quite as suited as well as being a training aircraft. Some variants, upgraded to keep pace somewhat with newer VFs, were a part of combat operations well into the 2040's in niche roles (the VF-1X+).

The reason we've shot up the numbering system so quickly in the 59 years since the introduction of the first Variable Fighter is because there have been a LOT of alternative and niche aircraft that also exist in the numbering system... plus a variety of numbers assigned purely to prototypes. It's not helped by the fact that, starting from the 5th Generation, independent emigrant fleets and worlds have been given carte blanche to develop their own replacements for the next main fighter... that ultimately led to 24 thru 31 being used all at the same time, though not all made it to production.

For instance, in the 2nd VF Generation, there were two main VFs... but there were also five niche VFs meant for emigrant fleet use and a handful of prototype numbers assigned. The 2nd Generation has numbers 3 thru 10 all to itself. 3rd Generation, same deal... but with numbers 11 thru 18.




Dark Duel wrote:As for the VF-25...well, in Frontier it was used IIRC exclusively by SMS, which is a PMC. The NUNS's main mass-production unit was the VF-171, which is still the case in Delta, eight years later. Additionally, the -171 is itself an upgraded version of the VF-17, which was already entering/in service as of the 2040s.
So probably, the NUNS decided not to adopt the -25(if it was even under consideration) and retained the -171.
Actually, it's said very early on in Macross Frontier that the whole reason SMS has the VF-25's was because the Macross Frontier fleet's local New UN Spacy had contracted them to field test that new fighter under conditions as close to live combat as possible... because if a contractor snuffs it, there's less paperwork than if a soldier does.

Put simply, SMS had been hired to do the OPEVAL work on the VF-25 prior to its adoption by the Frontier fleet NUNS. (Master File asserts that not only did the 55th Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet's local NUNS forces adopt the VF-25 in the 2060s, they also sold the VF-25 to a number of the other emigrant fleets they had trade relationships with... including Macross Olympia.)

Also, the VF-171 is less an "upgraded version of the VF-17" and more a "new fighter developed using the VF-17 as a starting point". The airframe structure and transformation are a lot different, and the VF-171 is a whole generation newer, with all the same feature content on the VF-19 and VF-22.


Dark Duel wrote:The question I have is why an upgraded -17 is being used instead of the VF-19, which started being mass-produced/entering service around the 2040s as well.
The military dropped the VF-19 shortly after deciding to make it the next main fighter, because the little stunt Guld and Isamu pulled in 2040 caused the government to tighten arms sale and export restrictions to the emigrant fleets and planets... and in simulated air combat training, the VF-19's super-high performance caused so many crashes that the military backed away from it and put a request out for something a little more manageable.

(Kawamori felt the VF-19 was too much of a "hero mecha", and didn't want grunts distracting the audience from the main characters, so he created a new main VF that wouldn't become a "Scene Stealing Squad" in large numbers.)
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

Henyo
Mysterious Masked Dude
Posts: 506
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:24 am
Location: Hidden Tramo Village

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Henyo » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:26 am

what about the Macross Class ships then? i'm only familiar with the Macross' from the animated works. were there any original ships from the mangas/games? i don't suppose all of them were constructed on Earth?

also, anyone weirded out by how the Elysion docked with that Island Colony in episode 15? or is it just me always having my mind in the gutter? :mrgreen: 8)
MOOK: ITS A YURI FANBOY!

User avatar
Dark Duel
Determined Shonen Hero
Posts: 4637
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:39 pm
Location: A blue City in a red State

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Dark Duel » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:12 am

Henyo wrote:also, anyone weirded out by how the Elysion docked with that Island Colony in episode 15? or is it just me always having my mind in the gutter? :mrgreen: 8)
That was in Episode 14.
But no, it wasn't just you. I mean, there is an explanation that sort of makes sense, but it still weirded me out too, for the same reason :mrgreen:
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
// GUNPLA THREAD //

"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."

User avatar
Seto Kaiba
Newtype Emo Guy
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:18 pm
Contact:

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by Seto Kaiba » Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:11 am

Henyo wrote:what about the Macross Class ships then?
Y'know... we don't have an answer for that one.

In fact, in Macross works to date we've never had a mention of a Macross-type ship being retired from service due to its age. The original SDF-1 Macross was retired from service for principally symbolic reasons, and that it was a good deal more economical to build new ones, and became the New Unification Armed Forces HQ (essentially, the UN Forces' equivalent of the Pentagon). Of the twelve "mass-produced" Macross-class ships* constructed in the first few years after the First Space War, only four have been named. The SDFN-1 General (Takashi) Hayase hasn't got any history attached (we literally only know its name), the SDFN-4 General Bruno J. Global was lost in action while on assignment to the 117th Research Fleet in 2048 (and the wreck subsequently destroyed in 2059), while the SDFN-8 General Vrlitwhai Kridanik and an unnamed SDFN were retained by the planetary governments set up by the long-distance emigrant fleets they'd been escorting (on Uroboros and Vivre, respectively). The New Macross-class of emigrant ships and their Battle-class supercarriers protectors have a design endurance even longer than average warships (Macross Chronicle suggests they may be capable of theoretically indefinite operation with adequate maintenance), but the only ones to leave service that we know of have been combat losses. The 35th Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet's three Battle-class ships were lost on Lux in 2045, the 37th Long-Distance Emigrant Fleet's initial Battle-7 was lost in 2046 on Varauta 3198XE's ice planet (a replacement was later built), the Earth Defense Fleet flagship Macross-13 (not attached to an emigrant fleet) was destroyed in 2051 after being hijacked by a military extremist faction looking to overthrow the UN Government, and of course Battle Galaxy was punched to bits by Battle Frontier in 2059.

With appropriate maintenance and upgrades, even the oldest warships in the (New) UN Spacy fleet seem to have an almost indefinite service lifespan. Macross-1 left Earth with ARMD II-class space carriers in its escort fleet, while the Macross Plus video game (2040) and the Macross 7 Trash manga (2046) both showed original ARMD-class carriers still in service both in the local group and with emigrant fleets, effectively making that a 40 year old class of warships still in frontline service. The gold standard is still the Zentradi Army warships appropriated by the (New) UN Spacy... those classes of ship are half a million years old, and some of the ships themselves are hundreds or even thousands of years old. (What can we say, the Protoculture built to last even if they themselves didn't.)


Henyo wrote:i'm only familiar with the Macross' from the animated works. were there any original ships from the mangas/games? i don't suppose all of them were constructed on Earth?
Oh, loads.

The Macross-class SDFN-8 General Vrlitwhai Kridanik appears in the PS3 game Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy as "Vrlitwhai City", the apparent planetary capital of Uroboros and the central terrain feature on the Yuria Archipelago worldmap in 2060. Another Macross-class SDFN (no name given) shows up in similar conditions on Vivre in 2062 in the Macross Delta prequel manga Macross E.

The Battle-class NMCV-03 Battle-3 and NMCV-04 Battle-4's whereabouts are known via the Macross VF-X2 video game, though they do not actually appear, as part of the story. They're on Eden 3 and Sephira respectively, which are worlds the VF-X Ravens visit in the course of the game. Macross-13 is the final boss of the game, but a rebuilt Macross-13 is once more in charge of the Earth defense fleet in 2059 in the Macross Frontier novels... and commanded by former SDF-1 bridge bunny (now General) Kim Kabirov.

Macross-29 was the setting of the Macross stage musical Macross the Musiculture.

Variable Fighter Master File mentions a number of other New Macross-class ships... including Macross Olympia (developers of the YF-26, and later buyers of the VF-25), Macross Valiant (AKA Macross-16, is a fleet that encountered a Zentradi main fleet in 2061), Macross Challenger (which settled planet Carlyss in 2061), Macross Errant, and Macross Odysseus. Macross Olympia also has a Macross Quarter-class ship named Macross One-Third.

Macross 9 was the setting for the radio play Macross Generation.

Reportedly, something like half of the New Macross-class ships were built in orbit of Eden, though all of the 12 Macross-class SDFNs and the majority of the New Macross-class ships were built in orbit of Earth.


Henyo wrote:[...] also, anyone weirded out by how the Elysion docked with that Island Colony in episode 15? or is it just me always having my mind in the gutter? :mrgreen: 8)
All told, from the Facebook groups and message boards I'm on... people who DIDN'T look at that and see something potentially lewd are very much in the minority.
The Macross Mecha Manual
Yes, we're working on updates...

User avatar
yazi88
Okawara x Katoki Love Child
Posts: 1142
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: The Official Macross Delta Mecha Thread Mk I

Post by yazi88 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:28 pm

You know what... I think one POSSIBLE reason why we haven't seen any other Macross class ships is that NUNS doesn't want the ship and its crew to fall victim and in control of the Windemere fleet.

Also.... is there a possibility that the VF-22S (If the one shown was categorized as that) might be upgraded like the VF-171 Nightmare Plus? Maybe the VF-22 Sturmfogel Plus version?

All those years must've seen some upgrades (possibly custom ones) to this Valkyrie if its still being used as a special forces unit, cause otherwise I'm guessing whatever version of the YF-24/VF-24/VF-25 that this NUNS fleet was using could've been a option too given that a good number of years passed since Frontier for these to be actually used by NUNS.

Just some speculation from my end.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests