The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk I
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
They really know how to show a throwaway grunt unit love. That talk about how it's beautiful from the blueprint reminds me of Patrick from 00 babbling about how he's king of mock battles.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Deathzealot wrote:Is that a SAW! On a stick!
Question: Am I the only one here who saw the Barbatos's new polearm chainsaw-vice-thing and immediately thought of this guy?Arsarcana wrote:Yeah, it looks like a chainsaw with possibly some sort of vice-like crushing grip thrown in.
That said, I really like the overall aesthetic of this new Barbatos form, and I probably will be picking that one up.
// ART THREAD // NOT ACCEPTING REQUESTS
"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
"You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she ought to fall down. Tells you she's hurting before she keens. Makes her a home."
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
I thought that part was a bit weird as well. It almost felt like a "break the fourth wall" comment too.Amion wrote:They really know how to show a throwaway grunt unit love. That talk about how it's beautiful from the blueprint reminds me of Patrick from 00 babbling about how he's king of mock battles.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
"It looks so good on paper! It HAS to work properly!" *They watch it go into battle and get Zaku'd* "But...but it looked so good...superior... what could have happened?"
Must be Leo syndrome. Alone, Crank managed to do alright, as did McGillis. Only in the hands of mooks does its competency shrivel.
Must be Leo syndrome. Alone, Crank managed to do alright, as did McGillis. Only in the hands of mooks does its competency shrivel.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
I mean, realistically (in universe, that is) Gjallarhorn probably doesn't come up against opponents that have many mobile suits (or any, for that matter) at their disposal. So it actually probably does pretty well outside the scope of the show's subject matter.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Yes, remember how the Mars Division commander furious at losing just single Graze? Graze is good design in sense that it's cheap to produce, cheap to maintaining, and easy to modify. Remember that Nadi had almost no experience working on MS, yet he somehow manage to made fully functional Graze Kai out of two wrecked Graze? It's that easy.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Yeah I think either the Barbatos or the Graze HG mentioned that Gjallahorn pilots have little experience fighting other mobile suits, which was why Barbatos creamed them so badly in the second episode.MayflyOfSpace wrote:I mean, realistically (in universe, that is) Gjallarhorn probably doesn't come up against opponents that have many mobile suits (or any, for that matter) at their disposal. So it actually probably does pretty well outside the scope of the show's subject matter.
It also helps Gjallahorn that they have a monopoly on new Ahab Reactors so not many other mobile suits to begin with.
It's also a big disadvantage of the Gundam Frames because they are relatively more complex and harder to maintain as well as being an old design.Kuruni wrote:Yes, remember how the Mars Division commander furious at losing just single Graze? Graze is good design in sense that it's cheap to produce, cheap to maintaining, and easy to modify. Remember that Nadi had almost no experience working on MS, yet he somehow manage to made fully functional Graze Kai out of two wrecked Graze? It's that easy.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
An old design that kicks Graze around for fun, though.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Definitely superior from a performance perspective, just inferior from a logistics and simplification perspective which is an important aspect when building a large scale force.Amion wrote:An old design that kicks Graze around for fun, though.
While we're on that note, I just remembered that one of the disadvantages of the Gundam Frames were suppose to be difficulty in keeping the two reactors working in parallel to have that high power output to begin with. I'm kinda disappointed in that aspect hasn't come into more of a factor in the actual show. We had that first battle with Turbinzes where Barbatos was weak as well as the fact that general output was lower before it was restored to its 4th Form but that's about it. I would have had expected a higher variance then what we've seen so far.
It doesn't really look that difficult to keep them in line as per the stated text argument that it was the main reason why only 72 was made for the war, and the only one that's directly mentioned so far to be the reason.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
So the new skirt thrusters were salvaged from's Ein's Schwalbe Graze?
It seems like they have a stockpile of Graze parts salvaged from all the major battles, given that they got multiple Graze rifles after Akihiro wrecked one of them in the fight against Brewers.
It seems like they have a stockpile of Graze parts salvaged from all the major battles, given that they got multiple Graze rifles after Akihiro wrecked one of them in the fight against Brewers.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
At least the Graze's are good for something then. And I guess it is kind of a testament to their design that they remain useful for parts even after getting smashed in.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Well, unlike Leo or Windam, a nameless pilot in Graze at least can put some fight against Barbatos even if breifly.
Of course, this is mostly because the nano laminate armor's function on Graze is as good as it's on Gundam. While Leo and Windam have almost no armor (Windam is actually worse offender here, Leo simply lack fantasy metal armor, Windam suppose to has PS but it doesn't function at all).
Of course, this is mostly because the nano laminate armor's function on Graze is as good as it's on Gundam. While Leo and Windam have almost no armor (Windam is actually worse offender here, Leo simply lack fantasy metal armor, Windam suppose to has PS but it doesn't function at all).
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
In addition, I think it's partly because the reactors aren't as important as some other shows since there are no beam weapons. It's probably important for things like mobility because of AMBAC (because that involves the frame moving), and I'm sure some of the systems require it's power as we can see what happened to Barbatos when its reactor output dropped. But the strongest weapons that usually the Gundams have rely on aren't reliant too much or them or at all, whether it's for things like beam ammunition or electricity needed to power it so I feel like the powerplant advantage that Gundams don't come into play as much.Kuruni wrote:Well, unlike Leo or Windam, a nameless pilot in Graze at least can put some fight against Barbatos even if breifly.
Of course, this is mostly because the nano laminate armor's function on Graze is as good as it's on Gundam.
Nanalaminate Armor relies on Ahab Waves to increase its strength but there doesn't seem to be that much difference between them observation wise.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Maybe the difference is one of those subtle things where on paper and even in action it doesn't look all that much more impressive, like the Zero vs. Wildcat fighters in WWII. But when they fight, the Zero wins because that small bit of extra performance (was it do with turning and altitude? I can't recall specifically) changes the outcome to the Zero being clearly superior. Same with the Hellcat when it came in and proved better than the Zero.
It's kind of like a Pokemon analogy (sorry, was playing it with the younglings recently) where even something with better stats doesn't necessarily annihilate a weaker foe if that foe knows what it's doing or has help.
Regardless of all that, I do agree with you Sonic, there doesn't appear to be clear sign the synched Ahab waves on the Barbatos are doing anything substantially better than the Graze. Mika's Whiskers are winning the day and always have since episode 2. Which, come to think, is the first I believe in Gundam (outside SEED and Wing) where a pilot's skills are what save the machine, not the machine's performance that save the pilot.
Here's a thought: we were told the Barbatos was used as an Ahab reactor. Where did they say in-show that the reactors are both working like they're supposed to? Could it be Barbatos is still not fully synched up to its maximum potential? Could be interesting to see the finale where the mad scientist from Teiwaz appears and is like "Sorry, I made a mistake. Just let me tighten this McGuffin here..." and then suddenly the Barbatos is Twin GN driving its foes with the difference in power.
Speaking of the Twin Drive, I personally believe we may all be spoiled a bit. The concept of "two reactors as one!" keeps bringing up images in my head of the 00 Raiser's Super Robot abilities, where clearly twin Ahabs are not special pixie dust. (Though they could be worse, given how gravity power should make them inherently frightening a concept and power to harness. Makes me wish we'd see a gravity based gun or weapon in the Gundams' hands)
It's kind of like a Pokemon analogy (sorry, was playing it with the younglings recently) where even something with better stats doesn't necessarily annihilate a weaker foe if that foe knows what it's doing or has help.
Regardless of all that, I do agree with you Sonic, there doesn't appear to be clear sign the synched Ahab waves on the Barbatos are doing anything substantially better than the Graze. Mika's Whiskers are winning the day and always have since episode 2. Which, come to think, is the first I believe in Gundam (outside SEED and Wing) where a pilot's skills are what save the machine, not the machine's performance that save the pilot.
Here's a thought: we were told the Barbatos was used as an Ahab reactor. Where did they say in-show that the reactors are both working like they're supposed to? Could it be Barbatos is still not fully synched up to its maximum potential? Could be interesting to see the finale where the mad scientist from Teiwaz appears and is like "Sorry, I made a mistake. Just let me tighten this McGuffin here..." and then suddenly the Barbatos is Twin GN driving its foes with the difference in power.
Speaking of the Twin Drive, I personally believe we may all be spoiled a bit. The concept of "two reactors as one!" keeps bringing up images in my head of the 00 Raiser's Super Robot abilities, where clearly twin Ahabs are not special pixie dust. (Though they could be worse, given how gravity power should make them inherently frightening a concept and power to harness. Makes me wish we'd see a gravity based gun or weapon in the Gundams' hands)
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
The Ahab Reactors weren't working as powerful as they were supposed to prior to Form 4, but I think the Form 4's text implies that we're back to the original Barbatos's performance. I know it was stated that there was an increase in reactor output after the Teiwaz tuneup, which is sort of the "tighten the McGuffin" scenario you speak of in this case.Amion wrote:Regardless of all that, I do agree with you Sonic, there doesn't appear to be clear sign the synched Ahab waves on the Barbatos are doing anything substantially better than the Graze. Mika's Whiskers are winning the day and always have since episode 2. Which, come to think, is the first I believe in Gundam (outside SEED and Wing) where a pilot's skills are what save the machine, not the machine's performance that save the pilot.
Here's a thought: we were told the Barbatos was used as an Ahab reactor. Where did they say in-show that the reactors are both working like they're supposed to? Could it be Barbatos is still not fully synched up to its maximum potential? Could be interesting to see the finale where the mad scientist from Teiwaz appears and is like "Sorry, I made a mistake. Just let me tighten this McGuffin here..." and then suddenly the Barbatos is Twin GN driving its foes with the difference in power.
Reactor output doesn't appear to be as important in this show as opposed to say, like on 00 where pretty everything relies on the reactor since the mobile suit reactor literally makes the beam ammunition, propellant, power for miscellaneous systems, armor defense and everything else. A bit less important than UC even since that there's no beam weapons that the reactor needs to provide electricity too. Still important, but not as important.
If we assume a normal simple scenario, that would mean that the Barbatos's reactor output would be around twice of anything else given how it has two reactors. But we can at least safely assume that Barbatos is not twice as powerful as any other mobile suit in the show so there has. Because of diminishing returns theory though, that isn't surprising or out of place.
What is a little bit puzzling is why were the Gundams made in the war. The "only 72 were made" sentence that keeps being repeated implied that back then at least, it wasn't a huge number and that mobile suits were probably more widespread since 72 mobile suits seems like a huge number in PD 323/324. It made them sound like elite powerful full units that were hard to handle or expensive. The official reasoning appears to be keeping the reactor working in parallel is hard which falls under logistics and maintanence. Probably more expensive too given how it has two Ahab Reactors.
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On that note, speculating on a few possibilities I can think off a few, some work well together while some may be stand alone:
- Could be that the older mobile suits from the Calamity War were much weaker than the Grazes we see today, so a fully functional Gundam may very dominating back then but is only slightly stronger today. If you think about it that way for Episode 2, that a 300 year old mobile suit with lackluster maintanence could take on a state of the art and easy to maintain Graze is amazing, even if said Graze pilots were not good. This also makes the Graze boasting to make more sense since it really is the pinnacle of mobile suit technology. The other mobile suits based on older designs, frames and actual old Ahab Reactors may have some improvements as well since organizations like Teiwaz are technology quite capable. They have shown that they possess the ability to restore machines like Gundam back to their original state with little difficulty, or in the case of the Rebake, make their own design off available compatible parts.
- Could be that they existed weapons in the past that relied on Ahab Waves output or consumed more direct power. In this sense, having a higher Ahab Reactor output back then would lead to "higher marginal performance per output unit" increase back in the Calamity War era than it does in the present since there are more stuff that relied directly on it that can help improve direct performance.
- Each mobile suit class Ahab Reactor unit may not have all the same output. So for all we know, the Barbatos has the same exact output or even less output as a single Graze's reactor even if the double parallel output thing is active and working like it's supposed to.
- The Gundam line was considered a failure compared to the initial design theory. Not in the sense that they were weaker than most mobile suits but not as strong as was hopes given their negative traits and possibly higher costs. So in other words they started making them got to 72 units and realized they were not all that before canceling the line. Then eventually some heroic main character-level pilot guy like the first Lord Bedoin does a heroic final episode-type success mission and ended the war and the Kimaris became legend.
Last edited by SonicSP on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Text in the show? Or in the manual? Because if it's not in the show it may not be 100% official, though evidence suggests harmony between the two this time.
Could also be that beam weapons did in fact exist to some unknown extent back in the day and thus the need for more powerful ahab reactors held greater importance in that era than now.
Could also be that beam weapons did in fact exist to some unknown extent back in the day and thus the need for more powerful ahab reactors held greater importance in that era than now.
They don't know the power of a balanced vision.
Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
While manuals are imperfect at times and fall under the grey level area, I do think that they tend to be good source of only because they're one of the best mediums to expand this stuff especially in AU shows where the profiles are not as convuluted as UC and its long real world history, so less chances for issues to pop up.Amion wrote:Text in the show? Or in the manual? Because if it's not in the show it may not be 100% official, though evidence suggests harmony between the two this time.
And as you said, I don't feel like there's too much disconnect - yet. Some maybe but nothing abnormal. And the fun part is we get to discuss these disconnects - which has always been half the fun of watching a Gundam show to me to be perfectly honest.
This was what I was getting at with the second paragraph point though I wrote it so more geenr ally so it could also be something else. Hard to know whether Washio's comments about lack of beam weapons were in regards to the show or the mecha universe setting as a whole.Amion wrote:Could also be that beam weapons did in fact exist to some unknown extent back in the day and thus the need for more powerful ahab reactors held greater importance in that era than now.
Not that we know anyways, we know almost nothing about the Calamity War. It's like the Clone Wars mention in Star Wars before the prequels come out. Something big happened but we don't know the details of it.
Last edited by SonicSP on Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
So... as a general question (if you'll forgive the brief digression), has anything been said as to the nature of the Ahab reactor?
(Other than, apparently, that gravitational fields are produced as a result of their operation.)
(Other than, apparently, that gravitational fields are produced as a result of their operation.)
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
Balofo's translation of the HG Barbatos manual has this:Seto Kaiba wrote:So... as a general question (if you'll forgive the brief digression), has anything been said as to the nature of the Ahab reactor?
(Other than, apparently, that gravitational fields are produced as a result of their operation.)
"The burden on the pilot is high due to the high output and high maneuverability, however it's mitigated by the implementation of Inertial Control due to the use of Ahab Particles generated from the reactor when a phase transition occurs inside its vacuum device."
That's pretty much it from what I can recall as far as the specific generation method.
We do know that it appears to be semi-perpetual device like the Original GN Drives from 00. Or if if not, at least doesn't need much refueling for a long long long long long long time. And Gjallahorn has a monopoly on them, so they are the only organization that can make new ones. Everyone else just salvages old ones.
Ahab Waves also jam signals and strengthen Nanolaminate Armor. Gaelio also mentions in the first episode that they make it hard for Gjallahorn to monitor/observe Mars from Earth (whatever that means) and this is why inspectors like him and Mcgillis are occasionally sent to Mars. In the same episode, it was also mentioned that Ahab Reactors are the technology that allows life in space. I'm guessing they mean power and gravity, looking back at it now.
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Re: The Official Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans Mecha Thread Mk
... a phase transition in a vacuum, you say? Semi-perpetual, you say?SonicSP wrote:"The burden on the pilot is high due to the high output and high maneuverability, however it's mitigated by the implementation of Inertial Control due to the use of Ahab Particles generated from the reactor when a phase transition occurs inside its vacuum device."
Fittingly enough for a series where the Gundams appear to be inspired by Mamoru Nagano's work from Heavy Metal L-Gaim and/or Five Star Stories, this sounds like the love child of a "true" GN Drive and an Ezlaser engine.
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