Mobile Suits in the Origin?

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Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:38 pm

I'm willing to bet someone's already asked this question a dozen times now and if so, I apologize in advance. I've read that there are a large number of changes in terms of mobile suit development between the original TV series / compilation movie trilogy and The Origin manga. But what kind of changes are we talking about, exactly?
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Xenosynth » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:15 pm

Well, I don't know all the changes really, but for a good idea of them:
http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/origin/index.htm

Check out the illustrations. The Zaku II has a wrist vulcan set, the Gundam has an extra weapon hatch and equippable cannon, same with the unit 01. The Guntank has a vastly new design in terms of appearance, and many other changes. However, those are the only ones I can really note at the moment, since I only have the first two manga volumes. I'm sure there are much more though.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Dark Duel » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:20 pm

Off the top of my head:
- the Gundam does not have a Core Block System until it is refitted at Jaburo. The "Core Fighter" is a separate aircraft.
- the GM looks slightly different.
- The Guntank even MORE like a tank with a head.
- Both the Guntank nor Guncannon are older-model machines, rather than new models created at the same time as the Gundam
- There are a couple of slight differences in armament. The Zaku and GM, for instance, armed with anti-infantry machine guns on their arms.

I'm sure there is more.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by balofo » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:44 pm

I was going to do an in-depth thread on all Origin's MS differences and new things but the OVA announcement killed my hype :)

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:08 pm

Well in that respect, I blame the OVA for killing your urge to do that. xD

But I like what I've read so far. It's rather intriguing painting the Guncannon as an older-model mobile suit. This would imply that the Federation isn't as lacking in MS development than in the original TV series / compilation film trilogy?
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by AmuroNT1 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:51 pm

Let's see what I can get from the MS Encyclopedia 2013...

-The Gundam has, as mentioned, a weapon hatch on the chest equipped with a vulcan on the right side of the chest, and the left beam saber can be replaced with a shoulder cannon, and the shield is "upside down" to its classic configuration so that, when held up, the vision slit lines up with the Gundam's face.
-The Gundam Late Model (the version with magnetic coating) has an improved backpack and maneuvering thrusters all over; it loses the weapon hatch in favor of a couple of auxiliary cameras on each side of the chest.
-The Prototype Gundam is painted yellow and has a "goggle visor" in place of the familiar Gundam eyes.
-The Guncannon has three-finger manipulator and, as mentioned, is an older model rather than a recent prototype.
-There are several variants of the GM, including a Close Combat model with improved armor, a Mid-Range Support type with missile pods, and a Long-Range Bombardment type with shoulder cannons.
-The Zaku II has arm vulcans, a chest launcher, and the classic machinegun is turned into a belt-fed "hyper rifle".
-The Gouf's right forearm is enlarged to justify the size of the heat rod.

From what I can tell, everything else is just redesigned to look a bit heavier and more realistic than the 1979 versions.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:07 pm

Just looked up the Gundam Late Model. Is it me or does it look familiar to the design of Gundam 0083's GP01 "Zephyranthes"? I wouldn't be surprised if Yoshikazu is trying to establish some design continuity between the two.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Kratos » Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:17 am

balofo wrote:I was going to do an in-depth thread on all Origin's MS differences and new things but the OVA announcement killed my hype :)
Which is kind of ironic, because the OVA encapsulates the part of the story that is arguably the MOST interesting from a mecha perspective - that is to say, the entire history of MS development. In all seriousness, it's a shame you had your hype killed so hard, because I would absolutely love to read a thread about mecha in THE ORIGIN by somebody intimately familiar with the mechanical aspects of the franchise. Alas!

But, yeah, that's another thing that ORIGIN tweaks a bit - it invents at least two new Zaku predecessors and depicts their testing stages, as well as the start of the Feds' own program. From what I can tell, it's very much its own beast, totally different (up to the Zaku I, anyways) than what little we've seen of MS development in other material.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:40 pm

Does anyone know whether those chapters have been released to the US or translated in detail? Those would contain a treasure trove of information on the development of mobile suits in Origin's timeline. And probably explain why it's implied the Battle of Loum went a lot different than in the original UC timeline. Any takers?
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by toysdream » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:01 pm

The depiction of the Battle of Loum is consistent with the (limited) info we have from the original anime and Tomino's novels, and agrees with MS Igloo on such particulars as the ambush by Zeon's mobile suits and the lack of a second colony drop. If anything, it's a more convincing account than MS Igloo, since it actually explains what happened to the Side 5 colonies. It's also really awesome!

As for the early mobile suit development stuff, it largely tracks the explanations given in Gundam Century. I did a big writeup on early mobile suit development in this thread, which addresses how The Origin's depiction of the MS-01 through MS-04 fits in with other accounts.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Erisie » Tue Apr 22, 2014 1:53 pm

toysdream wrote:and agrees with MS Igloo on such particulars as the ambush by Zeon's mobile suits and the lack of a second colony drop
The big problem with Igloo, Mark, is that it depicts Loum as a 19th century naval fleet battle, with lines of ships on both sides.

We all know that science fiction tends to disregard 3-dimensionality for simplicity's sake, but that was ridiculous.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty » Tue Apr 22, 2014 6:18 pm

At the moment, the mobile suits I'm most interested in are the Federation's. I can understand the Guntank being retconned as an older mobile suit - and it certainly looks it with this redesign - but the Guncannon being retconned into an older model was completely unexpected. How did that come about anyway? And since they're older models, are the surviving models upgraded to bring them up to modern specs at all?
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Dark Duel » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:01 pm

ZGMF-X28A Nu-Liberty wrote:Does anyone know whether those chapters have been released to the US or translated in detail? Those would contain a treasure trove of information on the development of mobile suits in Origin's timeline. And probably explain why it's implied the Battle of Loum went a lot different than in the original UC timeline. Any takers?
The latest volume of Vertical's release showed the first two prototype mobile suits, which are tested by the Black Tristars and Ramba Ral. IIRC they were officially designated as mobile worker pods or something of that nature, to disguise their true purpose as experimental combat units. Haven't gotten as far as the start of the OYW yet, as IIRC the volume ended right as "Char Aznable" arrived at Zum City and started military training.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Kratos » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:06 pm

We'll see more development (as well as the start of the Fed development) next volume, at the end of which the war breaks out. Operation British and the MS debut at Loum are shown in volume 7.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Erisie » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:45 pm

In many senses, we could say that The Origin is the anti-Unicorn, especially the upcoming anime adaptation.

While Fukui in Unicorn attempts to rationalize Zeon's crimes throughout the Universal Century as a tragic consequence of a Federation conspiracy against spacenoids/Newtypes (the "possibility" he constantly speaks about), Yasuhiko doesn't romanticize any of the characters, nor their actions. From Vertical's volume V alone, we see that:

- Zeon Zum Deikun was a radical with a messianic complex who was about to declare, in heavily religious terms, war against Earth.
- Jimba Ral is completely deranged in his obsession against the Zabi family, brainwashing the Deikun siblings in his belief that their father was assassinated.
SpoilerShow
Later on, it gets to the point of attempting to contact Anaheim to loan him weapons and stage a coup in Munzo with other Deikun supporters.
- Casval shows many traits of a sociopath.
- And, thanks to Mark, we all know by now how he feels about the Zabis.

It's also a contrast in regards to the marketability of gunpla. If Sunrise follows the same playbook of Unicorn for The Origin's adaptation, it's likely that this upcoming episode will cover from 3/4s to the entirety of aizouban #5 (Vertical's vol. V) of the manga. Apart from the retconned Guntank, the only MS we see in this volume is the MW-01/MS-01. Other mechanical designs include some armored jeeps and WAPCs, plus the Type 61 tank and a number of cargo/passenger spacecraft. Bandai releases of The Origin toys so far have been very limited in number, including some resin kits and small action figures.

Unicorn, meanwhile, has a ton of new and old designs in all imaginable scales. The MGs of both RX-0 and Sinanju were released even before the anime. I've heard that the lowest-selling HG of Unicorn sold more than the highest-selling HG of AGE back in 2012. Thunderbolt has had more kits than The Origin.

It's a mystery as to how Bandai's hobby division is going to play this out. So far, we don't see them very interested in re-releasing the OYW units with the updated designs. And, if they are, why didn't they do it while the manga was being released? Wasn't The Origin a huge hit for Gundam ACE and Kadokawa?
Last edited by Erisie on Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:09 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Kratos » Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:30 am

It's definitely true that ORIGIN has little in the way of merchandizing; about the only things that have been released were two MSiA figures (RX-78 and Zaku) towards the start of its run and a Metal Composite of the RX-78 towards the end. However, it's probably worth mentioning that the flashback portion has the most "new" gunpla fodder of the series, in the sense that the main story doesn't introduce anything more than cosmetic differences to existing OYW MS. I'd be surprised if there weren't HGUC version of the various prototypes released at some point.

Then again, there's a lot less actual MS action in these volumes, or at least pre-Loum, so it's difficult to see this portion of THE ORIGIN as a useful way to push kits; even if it has plenty of interesting mech-related content, it's all largely static and takes a backseat to the politicking and character focus. It's not a way to solve narrative conflicts like it is in the main story. I guess only time will tell - about all we can do when it comes to merchandising is speculate.

(And while I don't entirely agree with those interpretations of Unicorn - that's not really what "possibility" is in the context it's usually used in, and I don't think Zeon or their cause is as romanticized by the narrative as people make them out to be - that's for another thread. I will say, though, that THE ORIGIN has occasionally occurred to me as a rather good companion piece to Unicorn. The Feds aren't exactly depicted as saints 100% of the time).
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Erisie » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:29 pm

Kratos wrote:I'd be surprised if there weren't HGUC version of the various prototypes released at some point.
I wouldn't. The designs don't have much flair or marketability. Do you really see the MW-01 (here's a modded MG Zaku 2.0) getting a wide release as a HG or MG? Even with the hardcore UC gunota, I find that chance difficult.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Xenosynth » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:46 pm

Erm, I'm a Gunpla collector and I definitely would want that o.o Then again I like most strange designs. It's why I'm sad there are no HGs/MGs for the Z-MSV line. But I'm sure that would sell pretty well, even if it's unorthodox.

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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Kratos » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:05 pm

Well, admittedly, I base their release on the assumption that Banrise would want to market THE ORIGIN somehow, that Gunpla is their go-to merch (as you noted, Erisie, it's weird that it hasn't gotten any at all before now and something like, say, Thunderbolt has), and that those prototype units are the only ones that appear for much of the flashback section. And that the HGUC line tends to be the most flexible on what it deems "Gunpla-worthy".

Of course, it's ALSO possible that they'll just wait and release the Zakus that show up in the Loum section, and not bother with the new designs at all. Another Zaku II might roll some eyes, but it's not like the Zaku
I shows up all that often in kits.
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Re: Mobile Suits in the Origin?

Post by Erisie » Tue Apr 29, 2014 3:19 pm

Xenosynth wrote:Well, admittedly, I base their release on the assumption that Banrise would want to market THE ORIGIN somehow
A better question would be why wouldn't Bandai release kits of THE ORIGIN. It doesn't make sense. It's been an incredibly successful manga (going as far as getting a partial anime adaptation) and even won the Seiun Award for comic in 2012. A possible explanation is that Yasuhiko himself had opposed to the marketing.
Kratos wrote: Another Zaku II might roll some eyes, but it's not like the Zaku I shows up all that often in kits.
The MS-05 has had HGs, MGs, MSIAs, B-Club resin conversions... There's even a Thunderbolt kit upcoming.

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