Mobile Suit Gundam SEED ETERNITY

[NightFall]

I see those points but I gotta admit I like that Kira got a meaningless death. All his killing, all the suffering he went through and the suffering he caused all ended up being a waste. For whatever reason I like that.

Also holy frak was this the chapter I've been waiting for. Rau finally got his right after Emily rejected his path. I loved that moment. Nobody controls the angel of death. I don't get the Return of the Jedi stuff people are mentioning.

[WindamX]

There's nothing wrong with liking it, I'm sure a number of people do. But the problem is that by doing so a very large portion of this story is thrown completely out the window.

In addition to rendering a number of plot lines and characters meaningless, Shadowcell is trying to sell the idea that just as the light within Kira is finally within reach, the ghost of Fllay would rather kill Kira then saving the soul of a misguided but good man who has been trapped on a dark path to misery and destruction thinking he was doing this for her. She didn't even set him free from his misery by doing that, she sent the unredeemed soul of a good man straight to Hell (pardon the word.) I'm supposed to believe that?

Kira may technically be secondary villain but ultimately he's one of the three main characters of Gundam SEED along Athrun and Shinn. He's too important a character to the series to be rendered meaningless in a fiction that's ultimate goal is to replace Gundam SEED Destiny as a better plot line. Now the problem is that Valentine is now an insignificant character who just happens to be the leader of ZAFT. both Shinn and Athrun are down and neither Emily or a possibly saved Zero-Two have any significant ties to her to make an emotionally engaging fight. Valentine is now an unimportant character who is piloting the most deadly mobile weapon ever built. That's better then Gundam SEED Destiny?


At least one quote from Return of the Jedi was used in this chapter, see below.

Danilov looked back at the fleet before them, at the massive ZAFT carrier, at the hulking form of Messiah behind them all, beam shield shimmering amidst the battle. "We don't have time for complicated maneuvers, admiral," he said. "Try spreading out the fleet's formation, so that they can't take out as many of us in one hit. We can't afford to retreat again."

Barton's brow furrowed. "We have no choice, Captain Danilov. We have no countermeasures against such a weapon— "

"Then move us closer," Danilov interrupted. "Move as close as you can and engage the ZAFT warships at point-blank range!"

At that, Barton blinked in disbelief. "At point-blank— have you gone mad? At that close range we'll not last long against that fleet!"

Danilov fixed his eyes ahead on the ZAFT flagship— and the sinister fortress it protected. "We'll last longer than we will against the NEO-GENESIS," he snapped, "and we might just take a few of them with us!"

[NyxOne]

I personally believe that it was made abundantly clear that Kira was beyond any form of redemption or salvation.

The difference between him and Sven was that the latter did not believe that the obliteration of all space-bound humankind had to happen, taking things from a Natural point of view.

Well, that, and Kira was very clearly completely insane.

[The Green Flame]

To see all Return of the Jedi references, simply replace 'Barton' and 'Danilov' with 'Admiral Ackbar' and 'Lando Calrissian' respectively. I bet Danilov becomes a colony baron after all of this before going on a series of wacky adventures with Meyrin and the Extendeds.

[Rob DS Zeta]

There's nothing wrong with liking it, I'm sure a number of people do. But the problem is that by doing so a very large portion of this story is thrown completely out the window.

In addition to rendering a number of plot lines and characters meaningless, Shadowcell is trying to sell the idea that just as the light within Kira is finally within reach, the ghost of Fllay would rather kill Kira then saving the soul of a misguided but good man who has been trapped on a dark path to misery and destruction thinking he was doing this for her. She didn't even set him free from his misery by doing that, she sent the unredeemed soul of a good man straight to Hell (pardon the word.) I'm supposed to believe that?

Kira may technically be secondary villain but ultimately he's one of the three main characters of Gundam SEED along Athrun and Shinn. He's too important a character to the series to be rendered meaningless in a fiction that's ultimate goal is to replace Gundam SEED Destiny as a better plot line. Now the problem is that Valentine is now an insignificant character who just happens to be the leader of ZAFT. both Shinn and Athrun are down and neither Emily or a possibly saved Zero-Two have any significant ties to her to make an emotionally engaging fight. Valentine is now an unimportant character who is piloting the most deadly mobile weapon ever built. That's better then Gundam SEED Destiny?

Shut up and stop complaining.

[NyxOne]

Might I suggest calming down?

Some complaints may be misplaced, but raving while defending a work from every single such complaint directed against it is just as bad.

Your response was rather...passionate, let's just say.

Calling the complainer a raving fool and 'insignificant' doesn't help your case, either.

[Rob DS Zeta]

Sorry... I'm a writer, too, and nothing grates on my nerves more than when people complain about stuff like that.

I'll take it down if ShadowCell tells me to.

[NyxOne]

Sometimes you just have to bear it. People all view stories differently.

Like I said, maybe his complaints were misguided, but lashing out just because he disliked this recent turn of events isn't really good in and of itself.

[Rob DS Zeta]

There. I shortened it to the important part.

[ShadowCell]

um, what the hell guys, calm down.

[WindamX]

There. I shortened it to the important part.

I'm not entitled to share my opinion? The only reason I play a critic is because I like this story, but misguided opinion or not I feel the way ch. 49 ended and what's left leading into ch. 50 was a mistake, and that there was more to be had. I'm not talking a cheesy everybody except Valentine lives, and gets a happily ever after either. though I won't deny that if I was suddenly charged with re-writing ch. 49 and the upcoming ch. 50 the ending would be a mostly happy one.

I have no right to tell Shadowcell to re-write anything and nor did I. He has spent years on this project on a challenge and for the enjoyment of his readers, not many people are even half has dedicated as he has been.

[Soma Taozi]

Wow this is a little deep for this forum. All this activity is rather surprising

WindamX it is fine to have an opinion of what has happened and what you think should have happened. But I really don't think it is that big of a deal and maybe it has to to do how people perceive different characters.

But I am not here to discuss the finer points of characters, I am here to read this story, see some mistakes, and give some suggestions and fangirl raving (which I KNOW everyone loves)...and when I saw all the activity. I was under the impression that the last chapter was posted...sono multo deluso!

But whatever!

Anyway the last chapter hasn't even come out yet WindomX and as much as I can see you being disappointed by Kira's death, let's wait until next chapter for the full ramifications to be seen before we judge on how effective it is, okay? For a character like Kira, it is very difficult, if not impossible for a writer to kill them off in a way that will please EVERYONE. I seem to remember the death of Ali Al Sachez for 00 pissing off many a fan. While others saw his death as poetic justice. It is all in the opinion.

And you seem so passionate about this story that I wish you would have come around earlier and shared your own opinions and thoughts with this big sausage fest. And...I am sorry to say, coming out of nowhere and saying you didn't like something is rather unfair to the writer and it can (obviously) piss several people off.



Can we all move on to the story and reflecting on good times now...please? If we do I will post a video of a kitten trapped in a chair for all to enjoy...tempting offer I know

[WindamX]

Wow this is a little deep for this forum. All this activity is rather surprising

WindamX it is fine to have an opinion of what has happened and what you think should have happened. But I really don't think it is that big of a deal and maybe it has to to do how people perceive different characters.

But I am not here to discuss the finer points of characters, I am here to read this story, see some mistakes, and give some suggestions and fangirl raving (which I KNOW everyone loves)...and when I saw all the activity. I was under the impression that the last chapter was posted...sono multo deluso!

But whatever!

Anyway the last chapter hasn't even come out yet WindomX and as much as I can see you being disappointed by Kira's death, let's wait until next chapter for the full ramifications to be seen before we judge on how effective it is, okay? For a character like Kira, it is very difficult, if not impossible for a writer to kill them off in a way that will please EVERYONE. I seem to remember the death of Ali Al Sachez for 00 pissing off many a fan. While others saw his death as poetic justice. It is all in the opinion.

And you seem so passionate about this story that I wish you would have come around earlier and shared your own opinions and thoughts with this big sausage fest. And...I am sorry to say, coming out of nowhere and saying you didn't like something is rather unfair to the writer and it can (obviously) piss several people off.



Can we all move on to the story and reflecting on good times now...please? If we do I will post a video of a kitten trapped in a chair for all to enjoy...tempting offer I know

You are right, we haven't seen the ramifications yet, and now that you mention it I can see at least one way for the said ramifications to play out that will make me feel like a total idiot for posting before the story is finished, and will render everything I've said completely wrong.

On that note I should also say that my "complaints" stem from that I'm assuming that Shadowcell is going for a happy ending. If he's going for even a relatively dark ending (I.E Emily fails to save Zero-Two, Valentine manages to wipe out half the life on Earth before being defeated, Shinn or Athrun die somehow) then my gripes with the way Kira died and everything building up to it significantly decrease.

I was rather "passionate" in the moment when I read ch. 49, and I had to let that loose. I do apologize to anyone i've ticked off with my sudden appearance and extreme opinion, mostly to you Shadowcell. It was not my intent to aggravate anyone.

[ShadowCell]

i was going to post this later but um whatever

The difference between Sven and Kira is that Sven ultimately did evil things because he felt he had no choice, he'd have been killed if he'd done otherwise; Kira ultimately did evil things because he felt the result would be worth it. They both knew they were doing evil. Sven's motivation thereof can be forgiven, to a degree; Kira's, well, not so much. Hence, Sven's arguments with his younger self eventually wore him down to the point where he was telling himself that he couldn't escape the Phantom Pain, they'd hunt him down and kill him, he'd never make it on the outside. Kira's internal monologues and thoughts were always about crushing his own doubts and keeping himself on the path. Sven can make the "I was just following orders" excuse and say he was ultimately forced into doing things he didn't want by powers external to himself; Kira can't. So, Sven's is a soul that got redemption, because it wanted redemption badly enough to overcome its fear of death; Kira's is a soul that didn't, because he wanted something else more. Redemption, after all, is something you have to want more than anything else. Case in point: Darth Vader wanted to save his son more than he wanted to serve the Emperor, and hence, the Emperor found himself at the "falling down a big hole" part of the Sith life cycle.

By the same token, Valentine is hardly an insignificant character now that Kira is stardust. It's not as though his death means she is no longer the character who helped pry him away from his friends and bring him to this point. She's still the catalyst who made all this happen.

How I got Kira to this point is certainly something I'd do differently if I were rewriting DESTINY today. But I worked with what I had. So at least I can say that this iteration of Kira Yamato has faced consequences for his actions. In DESTINY he never really did; he cruised on through without any real challenge to his beliefs, because he had the writers off-stage whispering in his ear that he was right and everything would turn out fine for him. There's plenty of room for criticism of how I've handled Kira over the course of these stories--I certainly fell into the trap of improving Shinn at Kira's expense, and more than a little bit of my DESTINY rewrite was done out of spite--but you can't say he just glided through the story with messianic certainty in himself like he did in the show. Here, he frequently has to deal with doubt and uncertainty; the tragedy in him is that the path he kept psyching himself up to follow was the wrong one to begin with.

Perhaps you could say the same about the Minerva crew so far. Then again, they have the benefit of fighting for a cause that doesn't really lend itself to moral doubt in the first place.

And let it be said that I don't mind someone criticizing an aspect of my fanfic. I mean, good Christ, go search for me on /m/, they hate me there as much as they hate DESTINY because they say I'm too grimdark and cruel. Some of that is fair enough, some of it not so much, but either way, they are /m/ and they will hate everything so I don't take them all that seriously. WindamX didn't hide behind the name of Anonymous and call me a dropout (which really made me lol after I looked at the thousands of dollars in loans I just took out to, y'know, go to college) so it's not like he was personally attacking me or something. And if your enjoyment of my story depends on nobody saying anything critical of it...well, uh, don't go to /m/. So, no harm, no foul.

Brofist to the guy who tirelessly defends me there, though. I owe you an Internet Beer.

Chapter 50 should be done by this weekend, if not sooner. Hopefully before Saturday.

[Rob DS Zeta]

My apologies.

[Seraphic]

Oh, I'm seeing the Kira/Himmler parallels, Shadowcell. On top of being irredeemably evil, they've both got their respective rabid yaoi fanbases.

[WindamX]

the tragedy in him is that the path he kept psyching himself up to follow was the wrong one to begin with.

Which is where I had such an issue because the brainwashed Kira even in death never gets the chance to see that, which is why redemption wasn't on the top of his priority list. That opportunity is what Fllay took away from Kira when she sentenced him to death rather then being the force that revealed it to him. A brainwashed good man is killed just has he's on the verge of finally being capable of seeing how misguided he was. a true tragedy.

My comments on Valentine being insignificant is that her primary claim to fame is the brainwashing of Kira, and with Kira dead and Athrun disabled it seems as though that is not going to come back to bite her in the ass. But then again the last chapter has yet to come out so who knows.

[Vent Noir]

Personally, I'm not fond of Grimdark and sick of Kira-bashing, but I don't dispute Shadowcell's right to do what he wants in his fanfic. Personally, though, I'd have liked to have seen something like SFDebris' Unity Saga, where even though he hated the Star Trek Voyager cast, he tried to show them at their best. But that's just me.

[NightFall]

Can't believe this story is almost over. I'm thinking of going back and doing a Twilight reread since I speed read through it to catch up. Thanks for that comment on Sven and Kira Shadowcell. so excited to see how this thing ends.

[ShadowCell]

aaaaaaaaand Phase 50

yes the chapter title comes from a Bruce Springsteen song and it also happens to include the titles to an ED from DESTINY and an OP from SEED